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If the classic Genesis/Mega Drive offerings from Atgames weren't up your alley, there soon will be another alternative on the market for SEGA fans to get their retro fix from. Analogue, known for creating the Super NT, will be manufacturing a system that can play Genesis/Mega Drive and Master System cartridges. Called the Mega Sg, it'll house an Altera Cyclone V FPGA chip, which means every game will be "100% compatible" with the hardware, and though it isn't the chipset found in Sega's original console, it's close, and this one allows games to be played through an HDMI connection while still looking good, and promising little to no input lag. And yes, the Yamaha YM2612 soundcard is included, so that all your Genesis games will sound just like they used to. The Mega Sg will cost $189.99, and for $10 more, Analogue will also have extra cartridge adapters that lets players use Game Gear, Mark III, MyCard, SG-1000, and SG-3000 games on the system.

For those that still have their original Sega CD adapter, you can plug it right into the Mega Sg, as it has official support for the add-on, though due to hardware problems, it will not support the 32X. Games from all regions will be supported, as the hardware is region free, and multiple visual options are available, such as adding scanlines, scaling options, and more. The Mega Sg can be pre-ordered as of today, and will launch sometime in March 2019.

Analogue has uploaded a video showing off the quality of games played on the Mega Sg, which you can check out below.

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[Foxi4]

A cpu and an fpga are both hardware that a genesis game isn't supposed to run on. No matter whether you use a cpu or fpga, the goal of both is to make it so the original code doesn't know any better.

An interpreter fetches and decodes each instruction every time they are executed.

A drc fetches and decodes instructions and caches the results in a way the hardware can run natively.

So if your fpga supported changing the fuse map at run time, you could make an fpga drc. Otherwise it's an interpreter.

It's not about the method, it's about *what* you're emulating. They're both emulation. I don't know why that's flying over your head. Again, a traditional emulator *primarily* focuses on adapting the software to run on the hardware, an emulation box based on an FPGA is the opposite approach, it's adapting the hardware to support the software. An FPGA basically pretends to be the original platform, an emulator takes the original software instructions and makes them palatable to the client machine.

 

[smf]

Again, a traditional emulator *primarily* focuses on adapting the software to run on the hardware,

No, it doesn't. It creates an environment for the original software to run in, exactly what an fpga does.

Both use turing complete programming languages. As I pointed out earlier it comes down to dedicating or multiplexing logic gates.

This purely has an effect on timing, some of these timing differences can be noticed by a user and others can't. The accuracy of the emulation is down to the quality of the code.

I recently purchased an Ultimate64 and it has issues with accuracy, some software won't run (hopefully this will get fixed). In many ways winvice is better, but it can't use real c64 joysticks, disk drives and cartridges (timing would affect them all in different ways). All i/o on the Ultimate64 (in theory) is clocked at the correct rate.

 

[Foxi4]

No, it doesn't. It creates an environment for the original software to run in, exactly what an fpga does.

I don't know how to make this clearer. In an interpreter mode of operation an emulator takes a chunk of code, looks at it and tries to run instructions that are analogous. In a dynamic recompilation mode of operation it takes chunks of code, disassembles them and recompiles them as it runs so that the instructions are native to the platform. An FPGA doesn't do that, an FPGA mirrors the configuration of the original platform using gates so that the software doesn't know any better and just runs. What's more to say here? Modern emulations use these three approaches to achieve a balance of stable, playable and accurate emulation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_recompilation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpreter_(computing)

 

[smf]

I don't know how to make this clearer. In an interpreter mode of operation an emulator takes a chunk of code, looks at it and tries to run instructions that are analogous

I'm amazed this is too complex for you to understand.

An interpreter doesn't look at a chunk of code. It looks at a single instruction, decodes it and implements the original cpu's logic in it's own logic.

For a cpu that will be instructions in ram which control the multiplexed logic in a cpu, for an fpga it's a fusemap which controls dedicated logic.

Fundamentally there is

An FPGA doesn't do that, an FPGA mirrors the configuration of the original platform using gates so that the software doesn't know any better and just runs.

The FPGA just has lots of building blocks for logic, like look up tables and comparitors etc which the fuse map hooks up together. In a cpu the logic is multiplexed.

You can't just draw out a schematic with logic gates and put it into an fpga, they are just like a cpu that has been turned inside out.

In both circumstances the software doesn't know any better unless there are bugs, or in the case of a cpu the timing caused by the multiplexing of logic can have an effect on external i/o.

 

[WildDog]

Why are people crapping on FPGA clone systems? It feels a helluva lot more authentic than using a software emulator. Heaven forbid it's not 100% super cycle-accurate to Higan Accuracy, which runs like shit on my Core i7 4770, so yeah, not worth my time.

I don't know you are running that emulator but an 4770, in fact that cpu is more powerful that the amd i told earlier... Both are from the same era and the AMD can run it no problems... But let's leave it there..

Why people are crapping on FPGA? People are not crapping on FPGA, people are crapping on other people that tries to tell us that the "ultimate", most "accurate" and "authentic" way to play Snes and now mega drive is to buy one of these overpriced fpga consoles, while claiming this, trashing other way to play this old software (like higan among others).
This FPGA are not either the

"Ultimate" way to play = The Ultimate way to play, is using again the original hardware

"Accurate" way to play = You said it, is not cycle-accurate as higan

"Authentic" way to play = Again the authentic way to play is with the real hardware and a CRT TV which was the way the software was meant to be played, not using a 4k TV upscaled with filters....


You like the console, then buy it and enjoy it. But people shouldn't try to sell it as "THE BEST THERE IS!!!" (while trashing other options) when it's far from being true.

 

[Foxi4]

I'm amazed this is too complex for you to understand.

An interpreter doesn't look at a chunk of code. It looks at a single instruction, decodes it and implements the original cpu's logic in it's own logic.

For a cpu that will be instructions in ram which control the multiplexed logic in a cpu, for an fpga it's a fusemap where the logic is dedicated.



The FPGA just has lots of building blocks for logic, like look up tables and comparitors etc which the fuse map hooks up together. In a cpu the logic is multiplexed.

You can't just draw out a schematic with logic gates and put it into an fpga, they are just like a cpu that has been turned inside out.

In both circumstances the software doesn't know any better unless there are bugs, or in the case of a cpu the timing caused by the multiplexing of logic.

It's very clearly a different approach towards emulating a platform, we can disagree on the minor details. I dumbed it down as much as possible to make it understandable to other readers. My entire point was that an FPGA is programmed to behave like the desired platform using its on-board hardware whereas a software emulator does the opposite, it makes software behave like native code of the host, either through interpretation or outright recompilation. Yes, in both cases the game "doesn't know any better", that's a figure of speech, we're talking about emulation. There obviously isn't a magic pixie carving paths on the FPGA die, that's not the point.

 

[smf]

My entire point was that an FPGA is programmed to behave like the desired platform using its on-board hardware whereas a software emulator does the opposite, it makes software behave like native code of the host, either through interpretation or outright recompilation.

And I disagree entirely that it's the opposite. It only sounds like that because the cpu runs software, but the bits in ram just control multiplexing of logic inside the cpu. While the fpga loads the fusemap into it's ram cells at boot time that control it's logic & they usually don't change. For cpu & fpga those bits that control the logic are created by writing code in a turing complete language.

In terms of dumbing the difference down to it's simplest level I think I'm closest and you're still hung up on religious differences.

cpus and fpgas are both hardware, they both have logic that are controlled by bits in ram. The fundamental difference is multiplexed vs dedicated, although this dictates the design of the cpu and fpga that is an implementation detail.

 

[Foxi4]

And I disagree entirely that it's the opposite. It only sounds like that because the cpu runs software, but the bits in ram just control multiplexing of logic inside the cpu. While the fpga loads the fusemap into it's ram cells at boot time that control it's logic & they usually don't change.

In terms of dumbing the difference down to it's simplest level I think I'm closest and you're still hung up on religious differences.

That's fine. It's not really religious, I don't care for either approach, I much prefer just using the original hardware and adapt it to new displays if needed. I'm a little surprised that the company didn't just pick up a boatload of used MD's, stripped them and rebuilt them on a new PCB with fresh caps and a simple RGB-to-HDMI circuit, that seems more like their style and there's no shortage of lone and unloved MD's out there. It doesn't seem like a massive undertaking, certainly easier than having to keep their new device on a constant update schedule.

 

[smf]

I don't care for either approach, I much prefer just using the original hardware and adapt it to new displays if needed.

I agree in principle, but I've got to desolder some chips from a c64 motherboard to put into my 64 reloaded motherboard. Removing 40 pin chips with 30 year old solder is a nightmare. I've just bought a rework station specifically to do it.

My ultimate64 on the other hand doesn't need me to go to that hassle.

I'm a little surprised that the company didn't just pick up a boatload of used MD's, stripped them and rebuilt them on a new PCB with fresh caps and a simple RGB-to-HDMI circuit, that seems more like their style and there's no shortage of lone and unloved MD's out there.

I'm not convinced you could do it cheaper, retro consoles are pretty expensive right now and salvaging the parts would cost.

Their previous console, the Super NT, was also fpga based. Their earlier NT used original chips and was double the cost.

 

[Foxi4]

I agree in principle, but I've got to desolder some chips from a c64 motherboard to put into my 64 reloaded motherboard. Removing 40 pin chips with 30 year old solder is a nightmare. I've just bought a rework station specifically to do it.

My ultimate64 on the other hand doesn't need me to go to that hassle.



I'm not convinced you could do it cheaper, retro consoles are pretty expensive right now and salvaging the parts would cost.

Their previous console, the Super NT, was also fpga based. Their earlier NT used original chips and was double the cost.

I'm okay with paying higher costs, the whole point is getting the premium experience, not an imitation. Mega Drive/Genesis consoles are dirt cheap, especially if you snipe a lot auction, but it's obviously a unpredictable method of chip supply. As far as desoldering goes, flux, flux and some more flux, and some braid if you have some handy, or a solder sucker. Fortunately soldering stations are super cheap these days thanks to Chinese HAKKO knock-offs, bought one of those myself a year ago and I couldn't be happier. You have to go the extra mile to make sure that it's not assembled in a way that'll kill you, but ultimately you're saving hundreds.

 

[ca032769]

Yay, mine shows it's shipping today. Now to find a hack like the Super NT.

 

[ca032769]

Yay, mine shows it's shipping today. Now to find a hack like the Super NT.

Now that mines arrived, anyone know of an SD mod to get things up and running?

EDIT: Never mind, when I didn't find it here I should have googled it. Found it on YouTube and just followed the links. To find it just google or go to YouTube and search for "Mega Sg Jailbreak SmokeMonster"