US congressional leaders have reached agreement on COVID stimulus bill (UPDATE: signed into law)

[wartutor]

Lol, taxpayers have to make up the difference for McDonald's wages in the form of food stamps and welfare. That's not a solution, it's contributing to the problem.

So instead of tax payers "making up the difference" your suggestion is just fuck it tax payers can pay it all. Where are all these "tax payers" while everyone "cant work"

 

[Xzi]

So instead of tax payers "making up the difference" your suggestion is just fuck it tax payers can pay it all. Where are all these "tax payers" while everyone "cant work"

Dude do you have any idea how much money we've given away to corporations throughout this pandemic? On top of record profits? If we gave even 1/10th of that money to the people that actually need it, this country could get back to working and some remote sense of "normalcy" as soon as most people are vaccinated. Anything short of that is just an attempt to slow America's recovery from the damage this virus has done in a year.

 

[Deleted User]

Kind of sounds like how schools are now *cough *cough.

Hmm is that because Donald Trump put Betsy DeVos. A fucking supporter of paid schools, aka get rid of free education? Oh is that also because the fact schools are underfunded? It's the equivalent of putting ajit pai on the FCC.Schools have been underfunded for ages, and you think that perhaps putting someone who has a conflicted interest would be a bad idea.

Hell they need to keep shooting them down

Regarding specifically to the part that was clipped on? Or regarding stimulus? Because if it's the later, the 15 million Americans that have lost their jobs would like to word with you. Oh and, if it was handled better, this pandemic, not so many would have lost their jobs.

ou want to eat or live in a house go get a fuckin job.

Oh yeah just stop being depressed 4head. You got a depression? just stop being depressed. that's a easier answer. (Perhaps your really ignorant, but there's no jobs in the market right now. or very few. Where I am, I'm looking for a different job. Getting my first job in the pandemic took four months. Daily, searching.. and it's similar in most states)

here are plenty of jobs mcdonalds is hiring.

Oh yeah let mcdonalds continue to go abuse the wealth-fare system. Just let them pay workers the bare minimum, and then have the workers be supplemented by wealth-fare. Just remove taxes, all those wealthfare people don't need it. it's not like by any chance it actually even ruin the economy more since you really do need a place to at least live to apply for a job. you know, you got to tell them your address. So... Kinda hard to apply for somewhere if you don't a home... like... the 40 million Americans that are about to loose their home next month

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

So instead of tax payers "making up the difference" your suggestion is just fuck it tax payers can pay it all. Where are all these "tax payers" while everyone "cant work"

oh but of course, it costs too much to make up the difference. that's why we bailed out banks.

here's a fun video.
It briefly mentions corporations. It's also funny. and accurate.

 

[KingVamp]

I'm for negative income tax or basic income, but just doing away with taxes altogether is just not the way to go.

 

[The Catboy]

Kind of sounds like how schools are now *cough *cough. Im glad this bill got shot down. Hell they need to keep shooting them down. You want to eat or live in a house go get a fuckin job. There are plenty of jobs mcdonalds is hiring.

“Go get a job!” You say in the middle of a pandemic where most people are struggling to both get a job and hold onto a job. Then you suggest a job that the tax payers make up a major difference for in wages or government subsidizing. That being said, there’s a pandemic and people are running out of money fast. The suggestion to just “get a job” isn’t helping anymore nor is going to make things better. It’s pretty obvious you are either unaware of the problems creating the need for stimulus bills or deliberately being obtuse.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

“Go get a job!” You say in the middle of a pandemic where most people are struggling to both get a job and hold onto a job. Then you suggest a job that the tax payers make up a major difference for in wages or government subsidizing. That being said, there’s a pandemic and people are running out of money fast. The suggestion to just “get a job” isn’t helping anymore nor is going to make things better. It’s pretty obvious you are either unaware of the problems creating the need for stimulus bills or deliberately being obtuse.

Swine flu was deadlier.

 

[The Catboy]

Swine flu was deadlier.

Sources? There are reasons why Swine flu was bad but so easily taken care of compared to Covid. The bigger issues with Covid is the long-term damages not found with swine flu or really any flu.

 

[Deleted User]

Swine flu was bad but so easily taken care of compared to Covid.

correction:swine flu was bad, but it was responsibly (and more easily) taken care of compared to Covid. (which really failed on the responsibly part)
(really I have no issue with your statement, it's just your statement doesn't entirely highlight how poorly it was responded to. at least in the states.)

 

[The Catboy]

correction:swine flu was bad, but it was responsibly (and more easily) taken care of compared to Covid. (which really failed on the responsibly part)
(really I have no issue with your statement, it's just your statement doesn't entirely highlight how poorly it was responded to. at least in the states.)

That’s fair, I feel that.

 

[wartutor]

Hmm is that because Donald Trump put Betsy DeVos. A fucking supporter of paid schools, aka get rid of free education? Oh is that also because the fact schools are underfunded? It's the equivalent of putting ajit pai on the FCC.Schools have been underfunded for ages, and you think that perhaps putting someone who has a conflicted interest would be a bad idea.

Schools have been shit in america way before trump was in office but just keep blaming him for everything, your side is good at that.

Regarding specifically to the part that was clipped on? Or regarding stimulus? Because if it's the later, the 15 million Americans that have lost their jobs would like to word with you. Oh and, if it was handled better, this pandemic, not so many would have lost their jobs.

I dont have a problem with the government "helping" people but quit adding shit that doesnt have anything to do with helping AMERICAN'S. No money to illegal immigrants (they are called illegal for a reason and should be incarcerated/deported) and quit giving money to businesses especially big businesses.

Oh yeah just stop being depressed 4head. You got a depression? just stop being depressed. that's a easier answer. (Perhaps your really ignorant, but there's no jobs in the market right now. or very few. Where I am, I'm looking for a different job. Getting my first job in the pandemic took four months. Daily, searching.. and it's similar in most states)

You got 1 took 4 months did you take the first one offered, did you apply everywhere that was hiring or are you too good to do some jobs.

Oh yeah let mcdonalds continue to go abuse the wealth-fare system. Just let them pay workers the bare minimum, and then have the workers be supplemented by wealth-fare. Just remove taxes, all those wealthfare people don't need it. it's not like by any chance it actually even ruin the economy more since you really do need a place to at least live to apply for a job. you know, you got to tell them your address. So... Kinda hard to apply for somewhere if you don't a home... like... the 40 million Americans that are about to loose their home next month

This almost answers my question above. And goes right back to the fuck it make tax payers pay it all instead of the difference. And you say it in your sentance 40 million "about" to loose there homes. THEIR IS YOUR ADDRESS PUT THAT ON YOUR APPLICATION (holy shit im a genius i came up with the idea of putting the address of the house you still currently live in, even if it may be temporary.) I dont see how someone working for mcdonalds hurts the economy more than some lazy fuck staying home demanding money from the government. Maybe if they started a couple months ago they wouldnt be getting evicted. Its ok for a single mother to work there, support kids, and pay her rent all this time but guess everyone else is just too good for it.

oh but of course, it costs too much to make up the difference. that's why we bailed out banks.

here's a fun video.
It briefly mentions corporations. It's also funny. and accurate.

Im not sure how any of this has to do with the price of tea in chine but the video was funny.

Long story short if they took that first 1.4 trillion and just used it for aid and stuff related to covid relief instead of all the other dumb shit they had within the bill their would still be plenty to help the american people with. We as taxpayers cant keep increasing the dept this recklessly

 

[FAST6191]

Schools have been shit in america way before trump was in office

Not entirely related but a sample of favourite chapter from one of my big selection of propaganda books if that is to be the direction of discussion.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/our-national-enemy-number-one-education-without-religion/oclc/4561115
1943, rabidly anti communist (this was before it was cool) and as the name implies finds itself pondering the lack of religion in schools as one of the chief failures of the nation.

 

[Deleted User]

Schools have been shit in america way before trump was in office but just keep blaming him for everything, your side is good at that.

schools have been underfunded for ages, and you think that perhaps putting someone who has a conflicted interest would be a bad idea.

Yeah keep misrepresenting my arguments buddy.
If you want, let me go ahead and just outright what I arguing
schools have been underfunded for ages, however, it's retarded for Donald Trump to put someone who has a conflict of interest regarding education, making the matter even worse than it needed to be.

. No money to illegal immigrants (they are called illegal for a reason and should be incarcerated/deported)

I'm snipping this part of your statement "and quit giving money to businesses especially big businesses."
As you'll see me use it against you in a moment.
I don't think illegal immigrants can file tax returns. Which you need that, for you know, the stimulus.
you do know what you need right to file a tax return? a birth certificate, and social security card. Do you guys just think they can just fly by undetected and rob people of money and file for benefits? I'll tell you now, no, they can't. This is one of the things the republican party has brainwashed their members to believe. That illegals are bad evil people.(let's just be honest, that's a dog whistle. and I know it's a dog whistle because I was previously right-wing in my life) that dog whistle really being a stand in for Mexicans. Since I do know what imagery comes to your mind. A rich Mexican with three cars and tatoos all over his face, a thick accent, doesn't speak English, and violent. Somewhere around this line of imagery likely comes to you. You get so angry at the idea, you forget to really ask if it's even real or the logistics.
You really should be more angry with businesses since they hire them knowing that they are illegal (i-9 form would prove that, and that's the only part of the process that can be easily broken)

moving on

You got 1 took 4 months did you take the first one offered, did you apply everywhere that was hiring or are you too good to do some jobs.

I applied literately everywhere where I was. I wasn't being picky. I tried doing everything that I qualified for. most didn't respond back. The first one that was offered, was literately the one that I have now. I tried remote work, I tried asking the local gas station, I tried asking the local fast food restaurants (scotty's) I also asked McDonald, Walmart. Like, name a business, and I've tried applying for it. And the list of places I could apply for wasn't expanding by much each week. maybe two to three job opening per week. That's how fucked the economy is right now.

This almost answers my question above. And goes right back to the fuck it make tax payers pay it all instead of the difference. And you say it in your sentance 40 million "about" to loose there homes. THEIR IS YOUR ADDRESS PUT THAT ON YOUR APPLICATION (holy shit im a genius i came up with the idea of putting the address of the house you still currently live in, even if it may be temporary.)

And you don't get the whole scope. What if your someone who doesn't live with family. what if your someone who has no place to stay. Then what? Do you just try to apply to jobs on the street? Already quite a few have lost their homes. You also can't actively lie about where you live. So I'm more speaking to those who already been fucked, and 40 million more are about to get seriously screwed if no action takes place.

dont see how someone working for mcdonalds hurts the economy more than some lazy fuck staying home demanding money from the government.

One problem:
Are you just telling me that there is 40 million people, who just got a home, without paying for it with a job?! Or needing a job?
Real sound logic you got there.
It's just like climate change deniers. Just go sell your home if your on a beach to someone else.
Problem, who is going to buy the fucking flooded home? Or know that in a couple of years it's going to be flooded.
further more. Mcdonalds has been relying on wealth fare for years. This whole relief thing is a one time. I'm pretty sure McDonald has siphoned millions of dollars per year. adding up into astronomical numbers. so yeah no, sending people money when they lost their damn jobs to no fault of their own isn't (and really shouldn't) be an issue.

Maybe if they started a couple months ago they wouldnt be getting evicted. Its ok for a single mother to work there, support kids, and pay her rent all this time but guess everyone else is just too good for it.

Look at my post above regarding this specific "oh just apply harder"
I'll state this again. 2 to three job positions opening per week. I wasn't being picky.

Im not sure how any of this has to do with the price of tea in chine but the video was funny.

Never did, that video has to deal with

and quit giving money to businesses especially big businesses.

If you watched the video, you would of known that 2.2billion dollars was spent bailing out banks. When that could of gone to, well, idk. Actually helping people out? Just food for thought.

 

[wartutor]

Yeah keep misrepresenting my arguments buddy.
If you want, let me go ahead and just outright what I arguing
schools have been underfunded for ages, however, it's retarded for Donald Trump to put someone who has a conflict of interest regarding education, making the matter even worse than it needed to be.

I'm snipping this part of your statement "and quit giving money to businesses especially big businesses."
As you'll see me use it against you in a moment.
I don't think illegal immigrants can file tax returns. Which you need that, for you know, the stimulus.
you do know what you need right to file a tax return? a birth certificate, and social security card. Do you guys just think they can just fly by undetected and rob people of money and file for benefits? I'll tell you now, no, they can't. This is one of the things the republican party has brainwashed their members to believe. That illegals are bad evil people.(let's just be honest, that's a dog whistle. and I know it's a dog whistle because I was previously right-wing in my life) that dog whistle really being a stand in for Mexicans. Since I do know what imagery comes to your mind. A rich Mexican with three cars and tatoos all over his face, a thick accent, doesn't speak English, and violent. Somewhere around this line of imagery likely comes to you. You get so angry at the idea, you forget to really ask if it's even real or the logistics.
You really should be more angry with businesses since they hire them knowing that they are illegal (i-9 form would prove that, and that's the only part of the process that can be easily broken)

moving on

I applied literately everywhere where I was. I wasn't being picky. I tried doing everything that I qualified for. most didn't respond back. The first one that was offered, was literately the one that I have now. I tried remote work, I tried asking the local gas station, I tried asking the local fast food restaurants (scotty's) I also asked McDonald, Walmart. Like, name a business, and I've tried applying for it. And the list of places I could apply for wasn't expanding by much each week. maybe two to three job opening per week. That's how fucked the economy is right now.


And you don't get the whole scope. What if your someone who doesn't live with family. what if your someone who has no place to stay. Then what? Do you just try to apply to jobs on the street? Already quite a few have lost their homes. You also can't actively lie about where you live. So I'm more speaking to those who already been fucked, and 40 million more are about to get seriously screwed if no action takes place.



One problem:
Are you just telling me that there is 40 million people, who just got a home, without paying for it with a job?! Or needing a job?
Real sound logic you got there.
It's just like climate change deniers. Just go sell your home if your on a beach to someone else.
Problem, who is going to buy the fucking flooded home? Or know that in a couple of years it's going to be flooded.
further more. Mcdonalds has been relying on wealth fare for years. This whole relief thing is a one time. I'm pretty sure McDonald has siphoned millions of dollars per year. adding up into astronomical numbers. so yeah no, sending people money when they lost their damn jobs to no fault of their own isn't (and really shouldn't) be an issue.

Look at my post above regarding this specific "oh just apply harder"
I'll state this again. 2 to three job positions opening per week. I wasn't being picky.


Never did, that video has to deal with

If you watched the video, you would of known that 2.2billion dollars was spent bailing out banks. When that could of gone to, well, idk. Actually helping people out? Just food for thought.

First problem with all this is im not republican. I dont give a fuck about either side not one of them are on our (the hard working tax payers) side. Im 100% with you on more should of went to helping people and not business's/banks. The government works for the corporations instead of the people and until people quit defending/blaming one side or the other nothing will ever change. All you democrats think your goin to change the world electing biden...it wont make a fuckin bit of difference their all political politics and are out to do one thing keep the rich rich. Not a one give a fuck about you (trump included i just like how he is everyones new fall boy.) Their is 0 evidence that any other person could of did any better than this to combat the virus because
1. The senate and house voted on bills with a SHIT TON OF STUFF NON COVID RELATED AND PASSED IT 1.2 TRILLION. Very little to the people.
2. No steps to stop big businesses that didnt need the money or business that kept open and didnt loose to the point that they would of went bankrupt to keep from dipping their greedy hands into the pot.
3. No plan from either side after the 2 weeks was up to simply take care of the people without dipping other shit into it.
And people just sit back and blame trump because he sees the bull shit laid in front of him. Hell i would of blocked the 1st one until shit was only about relief for the american people and no bull shit added. Every god damn tax payer should of stood up and demanded this.

 

[magico29]

Great-grandfather Biden is coming for more than that bs.

 

[Deleted User]

First problem with all this is im not republican. I dont give a fuck about either side not one of them are on our (the hard working tax payers) side. Im 100% with you on more should of went to helping people and not business's/banks. The government works for the corporations instead of the people and until people quit defending/blaming one side or the other nothing will ever change. All you democrats think your goin to change the world electing biden...it wont make a fuckin bit of difference their all political politics and are out to do one thing keep the rich rich. Not a one give a fuck about you (trump included i just like how he is everyones new fall boy.) Their is 0 evidence that any other person could of did any better than this to combat the virus because
1. The senate and house voted on bills with a SHIT TON OF STUFF NON COVID RELATED AND PASSED IT 1.2 TRILLION. Very little to the people.
2. No steps to stop big businesses that didnt need the money or business that kept open and didnt loose to the point that they would of went bankrupt to keep from dipping their greedy hands into the pot.
3. No plan from either side after the 2 weeks was up to simply take care of the people without dipping other shit into it.
And people just sit back and blame trump because he sees the bull shit laid in front of him. Hell i would of blocked the 1st one until shit was only about relief for the american people and no bull shit added. Every god damn tax payer should of stood up and demanded this.

Trump is not doing it out of his kind heart or because it's right. The first one DID HAVE bullshit in it. Remember that bailing banks part? Yeah guess what. that was part of the first coronavirus relief bill that was passed.
In other words, no Trump didn't block the bill because he was sticking up for the people. If he did, he would of blocked the first. What's essentially happening is Trump is pissed that people voted him out, and now he is denying funds for people. That is really all it was. Remember?
he held covid relief as hostage
He said he wouldn't pass a relief bill until he was reelected.
And well he's following those words.
Yes that shit shouldn't be in the bill. but people are desperate and need help. denying to do so is going to tank the economy even more. it's a loose loose situation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

All you democrats think your goin to change the world electing biden

If you read my posts before, you would know I'm not a huge supporter of Biden, more so don't like him.I agree that democrats and republicans are shit, i've stared that before. However issue is that Trump has been much worse. and being better is a very low bar to pass. It's easier to figure out and do something while under a dementia ridden push over than a cry baby fascist who has access to the keys. (in other words, lots of lefties are preparing for the likely hood of the American government to collapse. Since Biden will try to establish status quo, and it's going to bloody fail given the polarization. and multiple crises. And only make matters worse. I highly doubt the outcome of a civil war. Likely a revolution, which would be more of a class fight than a fight between families. Since the rich has been pissing on the poor people)

 

[wartutor]

Trump is not doing it out of his kind heart or because it's right. The first one DID HAVE bullshit in it. Remember that bailing banks part? Yeah guess what. that was part of the first coronavirus relief bill that was passed.
In other words, no Trump didn't block the bill because he was sticking up for the people. If he did, he would of blocked the first. What's essentially happening is Trump is pissed that people voted him out, and now he is denying funds for people. That is really all it was. Remember?
he held covid relief as hostage
He said he wouldn't pass a relief bill until he was reelected.
And well he's following those words.
Yes that shit shouldn't be in the bill. but people are desperate and need help. denying to do so is going to tank the economy even more. it's a loose loose situation.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


If you read my posts before, you would know I'm not a huge supporter of Biden, more so don't like him.I agree that democrats and republicans are shit, i've stared that before. However issue is that Trump has been much worse. and being better is a very low bar to pass. It's easier to figure out and do something while under a dementia ridden push over than a cry baby fascist who has access to the keys. (in other words, lots of lefties are preparing for the likely hood of the American government to collapse. Since Biden will try to establish status quo, and it's going to bloody fail given the polarization. and multiple crises. And only make matters worse. I highly doubt the outcome of a civil war. Likely a revolution, which would be more of a class fight than a fight between families. Since the rich has been pissing on the poor people)

Well from what i see what is $600 goin to do pay half a months rent then what they are still in the same boat besides isnt everyone thats unemployed getting $600 extra a week? On top of the $300 a week of unemployment thats $900 a week if you cant live off that than fuck ya. I know single moms working 2 of those jobs most these people thank they are to good for and dont even bring home $900 a week and these are the people society deemed essential. The government is taking care of the wrong people. Take care of the essential instead of the unneeded fluff that thinks they are better than they are.

 

[Deleted User]

Well from what i see what is $600 goin to do pay half a months rent then what they are still in the same boat besides isnt everyone thats unemployed getting $600 extra a week?

false, not everyone that's unemployed. You have to meet specific standards, mostly that you were fired or laid off for covid related reasons. if you weren't you do not qualify. In other words, it specifically targets those who previously had a job, and lost it because of covid, which a no fault to their own scenario.Unless of course your going to argue that those people are just lazy slackers. Which I really doubt.

I know single moms working 2 of those jobs most these people thank they are to good for and dont even bring home $900 a week

1.
It's not a matter of "being too good"
As I stated before I was looking for any job I qualified for. I didn't want to take a position that I was lacking in needed skills for. If the job demanded something I can't provide, I'm not going to waste employers time.
edit: also if anyone was desperate for a job, I don't think they would be "oh I'm too good" most would take the job opportunity
2.Minimum wage should be increased, you shouldn't be paid less than 1,000 dollars when you have 2 jobs. (per month) This proves that really the American job system is slave labor with extra steps. if you want to continue in a capitalist system, at least have minimum wage increased to what it actually should be (following production) which about 15-20 dollars. That would cover necessities easy. You shouldn't need a second job, or a second person to keep a roof over your head and somewhat okay food.
minimum wage should cover needs, not wants. Which currently, it barely covers needs. (especially 7.25 dollar federal minimum wage)

Take care of the essential instead of the unneeded fluff that thinks they are better than they are.

You showed your ignorance regarding the topic. I'm sure if you knew that you have to qualify for those weekly benefits your tune would be a lot different.

 

[notimp]

Not entirely related but a sample of favourite chapter from one of my big selection of propaganda books if that is to be the direction of discussion.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/our-national-enemy-number-one-education-without-religion/oclc/4561115
1943, rabidly anti communist (this was before it was cool) and as the name implies finds itself pondering the lack of religion in schools as one of the chief failures of the nation.


View attachment 239427
View attachment 239426
View attachment 239425
View attachment 239424
View attachment 239423

You really ought to learn the virtues of OCR...

CHAPTER VI

Weakness Of System Apart From Lack Of Religion

There is no attempt made in this work to criticize the curriculum of the public school system, nor the qualifications of teachers, nor the methods used, nor the results obtained. Such criticisms are raised frequently by those far more competent than we are to speak.

Observations which we might be inclined to make, were it not outside our scope, were embodied in an article written for the December, 1938, number of the Atlantic Monthly by J. Anton de Haas, who claims to have been a professor in four American Universities and one Europeon.

The reader will bear with us while we quote from that article.

The Student Gets Through Easily

“In Holland we have, as here, three types of schools—the elementary, the secondary, and the university. Their positions are clearly defined and separated.

“The elementary school has as its purpose to give to the pupils a command of the tools with which to acquire knowledge, and a rudimentary acquaintance with the world in which they live.

“The secondary schools have the purpose to impart such information as any person needs to possess to be fully aware of the physical, cultural, political, and economic world—in other words, the indispensable minimum of knowledge for a modern and intelligent person.

“The university, on the other hand, provides for specialized professional training and for research in all fields of knowledge.

“The real backbone of the system is the secondary school. Here the pupils learn four modern languages well enough to be able to read, write, and speak them. They study chemistry, physics, mathematics, botany, sociology, economics, civics, astronomy, drawing, geography, and history. Throughout the five years of this school the subjects are coordinated with each other. No subject is dropped after having been taken up, and when the five-year course is completed the student passes a searching examination covering nineteen different subjects. It consists of a two weeks’ written test, followed by a two weeks’ oral test. The examinations are given by a committee selected by the central office of education from high school and university faculties. Practically all my teachers in the high school held doctor’s degrees in the subjects they were teaching, and taught only the subject in which they were trained. And we learned by the only process that has yet shown results: we learned by constant drill and hard work.

“Of course, we did not enjoy this rigid discipline. There was mighty little time left for play or for spectacular athletic feats.

Knowledge Subordinated to Method

“When I was working my way through an American university by teaching French and German in a secondary school, the principal came to me one day very much disturbed. The teacher of chemistry had fallen ill and there was no one who could take his place. The honor was therefore conferred upon me. ‘Can you do it?" he asked. And I, by that time sufficiently Americanized to know what answer was demanded, responded with sadness in my heart, but with the expected confidence in my tone: 'I can try' And so I became the expert in chemistry.

“This new work thus wished on me was appalling enough, but what made it really difficult was the comforting statement that followed the assignment: ‘After all, they are not here to learn chemistry, but to learn the laboratory method!’ That was indeed a new slant on my problem. I was greatly puzzled. In my crude innocence I had always believed—in fact, had been encouraged to believe—that one studied a subject in order to acquire accurate knowledge of that particular field. Evidently I had always been wrong. One studies a subject to learn some kind of method. Now for two years in my high school I had spent four hours a week in a laboratory in a course of elementary qualitative analysis. But I must confess I never knew there was such a thing as a laboratory method, which one could acquire by the mysterious process of not learning chemistry.

“Being young and anxious to learn. I asked for advice from others. I made a most surprising discovery: every subject was apparently taught for some equally mysterious purpose. One studied mathematics, not to learn to add and subtract, or to solve complicated mathematical problems—heaven forbid! One studied mathematics to discipline the mind.

“French was studied, like Latin, not to learn the language in order to enlarge one’s cultural horizons—that was an exploded and antiquated notion; foreign languages were studied to enable the students to understand their own language.

“How could I undertake to teach chemistry under these circumstances, not having the remotest idea what was to be found at the end of the road along which my poor students and I were to travel? I asked for more advice. I found it m the Department of Education of our university. My visit to one of the leading men in the department gave me much to think about — but clarified nothing.

“I was told that although I knew a good deal of chemistry I was totally unfit to tell others of my knowledge, since I did not possess the right method. ‘You mean the laboratory method?’ I asked hesitatingly, conscious of my inferiority. ‘Young man, that is a by-product. What I mean is that with the right method any good teacher can teach almost any subject. Before you undertake to teach chemistry, you need, not more knowledge of chemistry, but knowledge of teaching method.' ...

“The teachers now teaching in our grammar schools and high schools are inadequately equipped with a knowledge of the subjects they are required to teach. Many of them are called upon to teach subjects with which they have only the most superficial acquaintance. They have spent so much time in departments of ‘education' learning how to teach, that they have been deprived of an opportunity to learn what to teach.

“If there is one thing the world does not need it is more leadership. The battle being waged politically and internationally is essentially one between leaders craving action and those who know too much to act. Nor have we been wholly unaware in this country that something is not quite right. The egocentric mentality of youth, who more than ever before are convinced that this is the day when ‘youth will be served’ and that the world is largely if not entirely run for their benefit, has led to some protests. But our educators are undaunted. If something is wrong it can easily be corrected. What we now need is more attention to ‘character building.' Thank heavens, another intangible.

Character Formation Too Vague

“Now to me all this seems absurd. I am old-fashioned enough to adhere to the old notion that character is, as it were, the subtle essence of a person’s inherited characteristics, his environment, and his habit of life. I have always thought that honesty with one’s self, intellectual honesty, was the first step on the road to character building, and that a decent regard for others, born of a clear understanding of their problems and desires, though different from our own, was the next step.

“But I am wrong again. We are now, so the newspapers inform me, going to give special attention to character building. I can just imagine a teacher saying to a group of undisciplined and spoiled youths, ‘Now, children, we are going to devote the next half hour to character building.'

“Have we gone insane? Maybe not quite, but we are certainly on the road. And don’t blame the teachers altogether. They are usually quite helpless. Many, if not most of them, are definitely opposed to all this falderol and firmly believe in the old ways of acquiring knowledge. They still believe that an individual needs certain fundamental knowledge to fit into society, that this knowledge can be acquired only by hard work, and that the by-product is a character formed by intellectual honesty and disciplined thought and action. But they are helpless. Why?

“Look at your local schools some day and compare their administrative burdens with those of, say, twenty years ago. Principals and vice principals, curriculum directors, psychological advisers, stenographers and filing clerks—I shall not undertake to enumerate them. We of the old school wonder why all this is necessary. Why all this elaborate office machinery, why all these files and files of cards and folders, why all this entourage of the executive?

Is This Teaching?

‘The American system sets up, not the world and its requirements as the standard, but the child. Thus, as the child passes along the assembly line, the progress of the product must be constantly inspected, just as they do it in the Ford plant.

“The process starts with the psychological test. The child's I.Q. is registered. And that is only the beginning. From then on, the teacher’s time is occupied far more with checks and counterchecks and inspections than with acquiring more knowledge of the subject or with teaching. And my observation is that most of this record compilation is totally useless.

“Some years ago our daughter, attending a public high school, was not receiving very good grades in arithmetic. We went to the school to see if possibly the teachers could suggest some way in which we could assist her to make a better showing. We were ushered into the august presence of the chief executive. A clerk was summoned, and a search was made in the elaborate filing system that lined the walls of an adjoining room. Triumphantly a folder was extracted and placed on the desk. Deep silence and a close examination of the statistical data followed. Then came the pronouncement: ‘You have no cause for worry; her I.Q. is all right!’ This certainly soothed my ragged nerves; but I had never doubted her I.Q. I did not even know what it was or where she carried it. I wanted to know about her arithmetic. It was explained to me, in that condescending and kindly fashion which the expert so frequently assumes when addressing the rank outsider, that my worry regarding arithmetic was quite irrelevant. Her I.Q. being what it was, the system being what it was, the outcome was assured. The assembly-line technique would not fail her.

“We removed our daughter from the assembly line and from the further administrative protection of this perfectly systematized educational factory and sent her to a school where they did not know the difference between an I.Q. and a bullfrog. She is doing excellent work now, unhampered by executive interference and periodic inspection.

“Once you make method the centre of your system, the need for constant supervision, checking. and revision of technique becomes easily evident. Teaching now becomes a matter of organization and administrative control and not of knowledge. The professional administrators, through their constant contact with State Boards of Education, state legislators, and town officers, have learned about all that politicians can teach. They, and the select few among the teachers’ colleges, have by now secured a strangle hold on a substantial part of the educational system of the country.

“Let us tell the youngsters, ‘We think this is what you need to learn to be an intelligent, modern citizen of the world. Now go to it. We don’t care whether it will increase your earning power. Neither are we going to tell you that you come to college not to learn but to make social contacts. This is not a country club.’

Mortimer J. Adler, writing in Harper's, October, 1940, said:

“This pre-war generation has been made what it is by its teachers, these colleagues of mine, justifiably respected in their special fields, yet undermining all the merits of their teaching by a false philosophy ... Public education in the United States is run by men and women who have been inoculated with pragmatic liberalism at leading schools of education ... Students are taught: There is no wrong or right: Whoever wins is right; Whatever works is good! Justice is nothing but the will of the stronger.”

President Hutchins of the University of Chicago, (June, 1940) said:

“In order to believe in democracy we must believe that there is a difference between truth and falsity, good and bad, right and wrong, and that truth, goodness and right are objective (not subjective) standards, even though they cannot be experimentally verified ... Are we prepared to defend these principles?

Of course we are not. For forty years and more our intellectual leaders have been telling us that they are not true. They have been telling us that nothing is true that cannot be subject to experimental verification. In the whole realm of social thought there can be nothing but opinion. Since there is nothing but opinion, everybody is entitled to his own opinion ... If everything is a matter of opinion, force becomes the only way of settling differences of opinion. And, of course, if success is the test of rightness, right is on the side of the heavier battalions.”

Wilford M. Aikin, of the Progressive Education Association, wrote an article for the New York Times Magazine, for September 7, 1941, in which he deplored the failure of the public school system to give the people of America what they were promised when that system was introduced by Horace Mann one hundred years ago.

After pointing out that our schools and colleges have lost sight of their major responsibility to the nation, that they have forgotten the chief purpose of their existence, that few of those graduating from college have a clear understanding of the democratic ideals of life or of their great responsibility for the common welfare, that American youths are confused, without guiding principles of belief and action, Mr. Aiken notes these weaknesses in the system:

“First, our educational institutions have been trying to do so many excellent things that the big thing has been crowded out. We have demanded that the schools teach not only English, science, mathematics, foreign language and history, but health, safety, home-making, the arts, shop work, trades, shorthand, typing, agriculture and scores of other subjects.

“Secondly, to enter college the student must have spent at least two years in the study of the language of another people, but he need not have spent one hour in the study of his own nation's history, ideals or problems. To be graduated from college the student must have a reading knowledge of at least one modern foreign language, but he can have his diploma with no knowledge or understanding of the United States and its problems except what he has learned just by living here.”

Speaking to 2000 of the world’s most prominent scientists and educators, during the observance of the Jubilee of the Chicago University, Robert M. Hutchins, on September 25, 1941, blamed them for the “failure of education."

Dr. Hutchins also made this significant comment:

“It is paradoxical that now when we need trained technicians and skilled mechanics for national defense we cannot find them though millions were, we thought, trained for just such work in the last ten years."

Allowing Children to Follow Their "Urges”

There is a tendency in the field of education today to disregard this heart and soul culture completely, and even to cater to the “urges” of the child.

Former President Taft in an address at the commencement exercises of a Business College in Philadelphia, January 21, 1914, criticized the present-day tendency to defer to the likes and dislikes of children, he said:

“We are coddling our boys and girls. We are giving them too much freedom; we are humoring their callow preferences and desires, and we are not, through obedience and authority, teaching them the lessons that are essential to making them successful and useful members of the community. And more than this, we are seeking to cure defects in our education, as well as in our society, by more democracy. We have seen the ridiculous exhibition of school children striking because some favorite principal was transferred to another school, and we find the newspapers stimulating such movements, and weak-minded parents looking with pride upon the courage and enterprise of their offspring.“

The Catholic Church does not hold to the Calvinistic theory that human nature became utterly depraved through the fall of the first man who possessed it. It believes that all men did inherit a less perfect human nature, with a darker understanding and a weaker will than they would have inherited otherwise.

But the Church still maintains that the mind and will of man can control his lower appetites, and that his glory consists in perfecting his nature and not in degrading it; and surely the history of mankind offers clear proof that the world has had innumerable people who became well nigh perfect by pursuing the spiritual life. By aiming at the acquisition of virtue, they checked their inclinations to evil and prevented any vice from taking root in their lives; they acquired a high degree of morality[...]

 

[Deleted member 412537]

Our glorious president signed the bill!
Or maybe this is a fluke? I dunno.

 

[x65943]

Our glorious president signed the bill!
Or maybe this is a fluke? I dunno.

Yeah he signed

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2910NA

So the $600 is on