What's your general opinion of Christianity?

[Ratatattat]

Religion is a crutch for the weak that have a need they don't understand. Ignorance is Bliss.
Also anyone who takes their faith seriously should know the amount of hateful shitflinging they incur by whipping out their religion and flopping it in the breeze.

Ignorance is Bliss. Goes both ways.

 

[FAST6191]

In what manner does MRI prove the existence of Love, Faith, etc?
Are you suggesting that you can determine what a person is thinking "word for word" from an MRI. Kind of a stretch isn't it? Lets fill the court rooms with MRIs.

MRI, observational studies, biopsies and more can be done on people in love and not in love, said studies produce things you can look for, things which you can reliably find in other random people in the future also in love and find in those that are not suffering such conditions.
Faith is a bit harder to do tests with (most people don't tend to repeatedly go in and out of it which leaves you with things like twin studies, defects, long term, more correlative and such methods) but again you can find things in sufferers that you won't find in those that don't have such afflictions.

I have no idea how you got word for word from that. Mind you I am at a loss for why human states of mind have anything to say about the nature of the universe.

 

[Ratatattat]

MRI, observational studies, biopsies and more can be done on people in love and not in love, said studies produce things you can look for, things which you can reliably find in other random people in the future also in love and find in those that are not suffering such conditions.
Faith is a bit harder to do tests with (most people don't tend to repeatedly go in and out of it which leaves you with things like twin studies, defects, long term, more correlative and such methods) but again you can find things in sufferers that you won't find in those that don't have such afflictions.

I have no idea how you got word for word from that. Mind you I am at a loss for why human states of mind have anything to say about the nature of the universe.

Simply put its because there are some things that you cannot prove their existence but does not mean they don't exist. I'm sure we agree that love exists but to prove it physically is impossible with today's technology. What you see on an MRI is a location thing but not specific enough to positively validate it exactness. The determination of love is specific to each person so when its love for one it might not be for another. Yet they probably do have similar location patterns. At best an educated guess but not a physical proof.

There a some on here who say there is NO GOD. That's a statement of fact not a opinion. A statement of fact requires proof (I'm sure you would agree to that). I ask for that proof and they have not been able to do that.
I tried to show how there are other things in our existence that cannot be proved physically (like love, faith, God) but we know or feel we know they exist. Since even science has no proof of what was or wasn't before the "Big Bang" then how do we know that the Big Bang was not created by something we might interpret as a God?

 

[Viri]

If more people actually followed the 10 Commandments, the world actually would be a better place. You know, don't cheat on your spouse, don't fucking kill anyone, don't steal(heh guilty if piracy counts as stealing). Respect your parents. It's too bad a lot of Christians don't follow them.

 

[Subtle Demise]

@Ratatattat

Love and empathy and similar emotions are from an excess of oxytocin and dopamine in the brain. That's why drugs like weed and MDMA (more commonly known as ecstasy) elicit such exaggerated forms of those emotions; they pretty much flood the brain with those chemicals.

 

[The Catboy]

Religion as a whole is just shit.

I am not targetting you, but more this mindset. I often find people want to consider religion to be something horrible and that it's inherently the problem, but that's really only part of a bigger problem. Religions are often the justification to an action, but not often the cause of the action or often only part of the cause. People often use Christianity as an excuse to willful ignorance, often choosing to believe that anything they don't agree with is somehow inherently against their beliefs. Even when in reality their actions completely contradict their beliefs. Religion is often sighted as a justification for everything from persecuting people to wars. When those often are deeply rooted in issues like politics, economics, resources and sometimes outright hatred of different people with religion just being a blanket justification for these issues. People literally do the same thing with every single religion. I know countless other Satanists who tell me I am "not Satanic" and I am "just a reverse-Christian," because I am not a LaVeyan Satanist. It's worth noting that most LaVeyan Satanists don't consider the practice to be a religion, but a philosophy. So they basically justify their distaste for me with a philosophy. Which leads me to my point, it's not religion's fault that people are horrible. People are going to find something to justify their actions, justify negative ideologies, and just be horrible people. Religion isn't inherently evil, it's what people do in the name of it that is.

 

[smf]

If more people actually followed the 10 Commandments, the world actually would be a better place. You know, don't cheat on your spouse, don't fucking kill anyone, don't steal(heh guilty if piracy counts as stealing). Respect your parents. It's too bad a lot of Christians don't follow them.

Everyones a sinner.

 

[Ratatattat]

If more people actually followed the 10 Commandments, the world actually would be a better place. You know, don't cheat on your spouse, don't fucking kill anyone, don't steal(heh guilty if piracy counts as stealing). Respect your parents. It's too bad a lot of Christians don't follow them.

I agree. But its not only some Christians. Man is still attached to his animalistic past.
You don't have to be associated to a group to be a fox. There are plenty of foxes to go around.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I am not targetting you, but more this mindset. I often find people want to consider religion to be something horrible and that it's inherently the problem, but that's really only part of a bigger problem. Religions are often the justification to an action, but not often the cause of the action or often only part of the cause. People often use Christianity as an excuse to willful ignorance, often choosing to believe that anything they don't agree with is somehow inherently against their beliefs. Even when in reality their actions completely contradict their beliefs. Religion is often sighted as a justification for everything from persecuting people, to wars. When in reality those often are deeply rooted in issues like politics, economics, and sometimes outright hatred of different people. People literally do the same thing with every single religion. I know countless other Satanists who tell me I am "not Satanic" and I am "just a reverse-Christian," because I am not a LaVeyan Satanist. It's worth noting that most LaVeyan Satanists don't consider the practice to be a religion, but a philosophy. So they basically justify their distaste for me with a philosophy. Which leads me to my point, it's not religion's fault that people are horrible. People are going to find something to justify their actions, justify negative ideologies, and just be horrible people. Religion isn't inherently evil, it's what people do in the name of it that is.

Well said.

 

[Viri]

Everyones a sinner.

I know. But, the world would still be a better place if people did follow the 10 Commandments. Basically they tell you to not be a dick.

 

[Subtle Demise]

I know. But, the world would still be a better place if people did follow the 10 Commandments. Basically they tell you to not be a dick.

Yeah but the people in the Bible and even God himself didn't follow them.

 

[FAST6191]

Simply put its because there are some things that you cannot prove their existence but does not mean they don't exist. I'm sure we agree that love exists but to prove it physically is impossible with today's technology. What you see on an MRI is a location thing but not specific enough to positively validate it exactness. The determination of love is specific to each person so when its love for one it might not be for another. Yet they probably do have similar location patterns. At best an educated guess but not a physical proof.

There a some on here who say there is NO GOD. That's a statement of fact not a opinion. A statement of fact requires proof (I'm sure you would agree to that). I ask for that proof and they have not been able to do that.
I tried to show how there are other things in our existence that cannot be proved physically (like love, faith, God) but we know or feel we know they exist. Since even science has no proof of what was or wasn't before the "Big Bang" then how do we know that the Big Bang was not created by something we might interpret as a God?

You can prove love and faith easily enough. There are many markers and tells by which you can demonstrate someone has either affliction, said tells can predict things and seemingly be found in historical records as well -- being common enough afflictions there are thousands of accounts and hours of video footage made long before modern psychology and such figured out the tests.

Equally not being able to prove something does not mean the thousands of years of utter nonsense that various people purporting to do the Christianity, based on a thousand or more year old book (with notes copied from even older books), translated a bunch of times and today without context for a lot of people (I have seen a camel, only in a zoo though) is anything close to correct. Indeed for it to be so would be incredibly unlikely given what we know now.
The claim that there is a god as dictated by the bible is then an outrageous claim and general logic holds that outrageous claims are the ones that need to be proven and it is fine to disbelieve them pending such proof.
Or if you prefer the sock on my floor just turned into a balloon and rose up to the ceiling.
It is not impossible that the billions of atoms* in my sock suddenly decided to decay into a lighter than air gas and a means to contain them that was similarly lighter than air -- radioactive decay, quantum tunnelling and other things happen all the time and we have models that make use of them that work for general consumer products produced by the millions even. However for me to demand that you afford equal credence be given to said statement given how improbable it is would be ridiculous. Many then make the same logical leap with the bible -- it is demonstrably full of nonsense and has large gaps on things that it should really cover if it is to be a guide to living in the modern world. Why then pay it any more attention than I might give Shakespeare or something?

*choice video

If more people actually followed the 10 Commandments, the world actually would be a better place. You know, don't cheat on your spouse, don't fucking kill anyone, don't steal(heh guilty if piracy counts as stealing). Respect your parents. It's too bad a lot of Christians don't follow them.

I know I did it before but


and the bible says surprisingly little about the matter of intellectual property. Free reign there then.

 

[Ratatattat]

I know. But, the world would still be a better place if people did follow the 10 Commandments. Basically they tell you to not be a dick.

The two most societal influential control mechanisms are Government and Religion. Both were invented to try and stem our barbaric past and create positive social behavior. Yes there are those who abused, and still do, their power inside those mechanisms. Blame should be placed on the abuser not the mechanism.

 

[SouzetsuAerir]

Being of a pagan religion (Asatru) it's everyone's right to believe or unbelieve whatever they feel is right. I do feel that Christianity is dwindling in numbers due to the fact most of them think that their oppinion is above all else and society today resents that sort of thing.

 

[Ratatattat]

You can prove love and faith easily enough. There are many markers and tells by which you can demonstrate someone has either affliction, said tells can predict things and seemingly be found in historical records as well -- being common enough afflictions there are thousands of accounts and hours of video footage made long before modern psychology and such figured out the tests.

Equally not being able to prove something does not mean the thousands of years of utter nonsense that various people purporting to do the Christianity, based on a thousand or more year old book (with notes copied from even older books), translated a bunch of times and today without context for a lot of people (I have seen a camel, only in a zoo though) is anything close to correct. Indeed for it to be so would be incredibly unlikely given what we know now.
The claim that there is a god as dictated by the bible is then an outrageous claim and general logic holds that outrageous claims are the ones that need to be proven and it is fine to disbelieve them pending such proof.
Or if you prefer the sock on my floor just turned into a balloon and rose up to the ceiling.
It is not impossible that the billions of atoms* in my sock suddenly decided to decay into a lighter than air gas and a means to contain them that was similarly lighter than air -- radioactive decay, quantum tunnelling and other things happen all the time and we have models that make use of them that work for general consumer products produced by the millions even. However for me to demand that you afford equal credence be given to said statement given how improbable it is would be ridiculous. Many then make the same logical leap with the bible -- it is demonstrably full of nonsense and has large gaps on things that it should really cover if it is to be a guide to living in the modern world. Why then pay it any more attention than I might give Shakespeare or something?

*choice video





I know I did it before but


and the bible says surprisingly little about the matter of intellectual property. Free reign there then.

I believe there is love but I cannot factually prove it exists nor can I disprove it. I can hug someone and tell them I love them. But its up to them to believe or not, they have to trust me. And with today's divorce rate I'd say there is a few who say they love but don't. Just like you cannot prove there is NO GOD other than to say its your opinion or recite some long diatribe about how inept the bible or other religious documents are.
Most religious documents were written with the writers having very little scientific knowledge. They described things as would be relevant to the intelligence of the time. Sure they got a lot of things wrong or poorly described. They were talking to the people of the time as best they could.

Back to the original question. Where is your proof the is "NO GOD?"

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Being of a pagan religion (Asatru) it's everyone's right to believe or unbelieve whatever they feel is right. I do feel that Christianity is dwindling in numbers due to the fact most of them think that their oppinion is above all else and society today resents that sort of thing.

Probably correct but I don't understand how standing up for your particular religion is above all else? If someone attacked your belief and you defended it is that "above all else". I mean what would you expect?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Yeah but the people in the Bible and even God himself didn't follow them.

How do you know that?

 

[Glyptofane]

To further elaborate, I don't really acknowledge the authors or main characters in the Bible as being human. It would be the same thing as me worshipping a chimpanzee, and while I like those, I'm forced to realize they'd rip my face and nuts off, given the chance.

 

[FAST6191]

I believe there is love but I cannot factually prove it exists nor can I disprove it. I can hug someone and tell them I love them. But its up to them to believe or not, they have to trust me. And with today's divorce rate I'd say there is a few who say they love but don't. Just like you cannot prove there is NO GOD other than to say its your opinion or recite some long diatribe about how inept the bible or other religious documents are.
Most religious documents were written with the writers having very little scientific knowledge. They described things as would be relevant to the intelligence of the time. Sure they got a lot of things wrong or poorly described. They were talking to the people of the time as best they could.

Back to the original question. Where is your proof the is "NO GOD?"

I can observe physical reactions, can slice into brains and observe chemicals going on, I can reliably predict behaviours in people of all cultures (even uncontacted tribes in a forest somewhere), as far as we can tell such reactions are hard to fake (pretty much only certain sociopaths can manage it) and people are hardwired to detect fakes (autistic people commonly have trouble here but most do not) and respond to the cues (blushing, dilating pupils, vocal stuttering, awkward or predictable series of physical motions...). We can observe somewhat lesser versions of this in other animals as well. If that is not real, provable, demonstrable and so forth I don't know what is. You can do the same with faith but it is a bit harder as the sample size and variability is smaller (people go in and out of love a lot overall, faith is a less common and less commonly changing thing), though you are certainly not without options -- twin studies, brain injury, scans of similar populations with and without...

Divorce wise. What does that have to do with the price of chips? One partner for life is not observed in the animal world. Serial monogamy is a different matter but seemingly not the only one.

I agree most thousands of years old religious documents were not written with the modern understanding of science, I have said as such all along. However if people are going to want to tell me they were new and exciting revelations then, the word of some mystical being and reflect the nature of reality then I am going to call bullshit. If it is not the infallible word of a mystical being (which is what quite a few have claimed and held to be fundamental to being a member of the religion) it is just another book and another philosophy and I have already dismissed millions of those.

My proof of no gods? I don't need any. Nobody has ever made a reasonable claim that there is one.

 

[Subtle Demise]

How do you know that?

There is so much murder in the Bible, some of it directly by God or commanded by him. He's tricked his followers to test their faith. Made bets with the devil. He would smite one civilization for sexual depravity, but then when he saves one family from the doomed city, he turns the dude's wife into salt for looking back, but did nothing to his daughters when they got their dad all fucked up and raped him.

 

[smf]

I know. But, the world would still be a better place if people did follow the 10 Commandments. Basically they tell you to not be a dick.

Sure, the last 5 are great. The first 5 aren't any help.

Remember the sabbath is ok if you interpret it as "take some time off during the week to spend with loved ones". It doesn't have to be Sunday.

I believe there is love but I cannot factually prove it exists nor can I disprove it.

Love is a feeling, you can prove it exists from your feelings and your actions.

And with today's divorce rate I'd say there is a few who say they love but don't.

Love is transitory, the main difference now is that women don't have to stay with men for money.

Just like you cannot prove there is NO GOD other than to say its your opinion or recite some long diatribe about how inept the bible or other religious documents are.

You can't prove there is a god, so what do you expect us to believe?

Most religious documents were written with the writers having very little scientific knowledge. They described things as would be relevant to the intelligence of the time.

I thought the bible was supposed to be the word of god, why would the writers scientific knowledge be relevant?

Sure they got a lot of things wrong or poorly described. They were talking to the people of the time as best they could.

Maybe god was testing you, like when he hid the dinosaur bones in the ground?

I've heard your arguments before, it's what a lot of people in the church say. The problem is that you get sold a logical fallacy but you believe it because you believe in god, then you believe the fallacy is a good argument.

 

[JaapDaniels]

Sorry but your still stuck in the physical world.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



In what manner does MRI prove the existence of Love, Faith, etc?
Are you suggesting that you can determine what a person is thinking "word for word" from an MRI. Kind of a stretch isn't it? Lets fill the court rooms with MRIs.

we're all stuck in the phisical world, it's called reality.
and we can't see all words in MRI, but we can see where there's activity in the brain on MRI.
we can seewhat part of each brain is utilized for what fuction.
it's like algebra, you might not see exact words, but one can see parallels.
the part active for love towards a person is not the same as it comes to love in a holy beïng.
when a child talkes about a fantasy friend, it activates the same parts of the brain when it comes to fate.
when a child talkes about a real life friend it's active in a different part of it's brain.
the same goes for laws of science/nature and laws of a holy book.
the detailles around how to explain more specific is hard for me since english is a second language of mine and i'm not a doctor.
i can only describe the parts i understood when a doctor explained it to me once.

 

[mammastuffing]

I think christianity along with most other religions have crippled society with its anti-science mentality. I also think the idea of original sin and the condonement of slavery is extremely immoral.