Homebrew Which disc-based systems accept homebrew on CD without modchip?

[Yaro]

Hi, sorry if stupid question from me... But I'm interested in that. What are disc-based consoles (computers don't count), that use disc media, can accept a disc with homebrew game, without using modchip?

The only one I think fits that, maybe Neo-Geo CD? As I know, if developer doesn't enable copy protection in game, then it is not used. Which means if you made homebrew game and didn't enable it, people can play it on not-modded units.

Then I started thinking about Saturn... but.. people say that it needs to have a modchip, right? Then, what about Dreamcast? Though I heard CD will degrade drive more than GD.

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Another question, for those who aware.. I know that e.g. some unofficial releases got quality prints (as in, not just a CD-R, but factory-quality CD) in recent years. Any idea how such production is doable, and how expensive it is to produce a stock (e.g. 50 or 100 copies)? And how does it compare to similar task for musicians who release the albums on CDs.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Another question, for those who aware.. I know that e.g. some unofficial releases got quality prints (as in, not just a CD-R, but factory-quality CD) in recent years. Any idea how such production is doable, and how expensive it is to produce a stock (e.g. 50 or 100 copies)? And how does it compare to similar task for musicians who release the albums on CDs.

There has been recent unofficial software pressed on CD for the Dreamcast (using MIL-CD loophole).

Some pressing plants offer glass master for CD production as low as 100 copies (others at least 300). Low copy count means high price per copy. Once you have the glass master each copy is worth pennies. Minimal quantity for the pressing could have a complete price of about 300 €/$ (missing any fancy printing or packaging). For low quantities duplication (good CD writers using professional duplication CD-Rs) is more cost effective than "the real thing".

I don't think they would offer reproducing copy protection markings since they sometimes incorporate legal tricks in addition to technical ones. This is of questionable effect, but enough to scare companies. PlayStation discs for example must contain "Licensed by Sony Computer Entertainment Ameria|Europe/|Japan" (depending on the region) for an unmodified console to start them. Well… Producing a disc saying it the production has Sony license when it doesn't is a lie.

Sega and Nintendo did the same with lockout functions in cart based systems and it failed in court… but good luck convincing a pressing plant as a small customer.


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To my knowledge Sega CD and – if you want to call it a console – CD-i do not use any form of copy protection. Sega Saturn discs are already heavily protected.
You can easily produce PlayStation 2 DVDs which will boot on certain models only (same problem as with Dreamcast MIL-CD loophole)

 

[Yaro]

Thank you for detailed answer.

 

[AkikoKumagara]

And how does it compare to similar task for musicians who release the albums on CDs.

There's no real functional difference between a music CD and a data CD when pressed, so the cost shouldn't differ between the two either.

They're both just data pressed on a disc at the end of the day

Same process with the same goal.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

There's no real functional difference between a music CD and a data CD when pressed, so the cost shouldn't differ between the two either.

For the pure production costs there should indeed be no difference.

Physically all CD based stuff is more or less the same… on the other side: Not on the logical level (data interpretation, steps to produce the data). There can be a legal difference demanding some more formalities for audio CDs.

 

[master801]

3DO is another console that has no CD copy protection. It'll play burnt CD games with no modifications.

 

[SylverReZ]

The Sega CD/Mega CD does not have any copy protection, but rather, simple region lock-out checks that can be easily bypassed by patching the disc image.

 

[Kwyjor]

The Gamecube SD Media Launcher (and Action Replay, which is pretty much the same thing) will launch on an unmodded Gamecube – but apparently their means of producing those discs is some closely-guarded secret.

 

[SylverReZ]

The Gamecube SD Media Launcher (and Action Replay, which is pretty much the same thing) will launch on an unmodded Gamecube – but apparently their means of producing those discs is some closely-guarded secret.

Same thing with how they produced their own PlayStation bootable discs. In theory, its most likely that they spliced the security sectors and used special mastering equipment to press their own media.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

The Gamecube SD Media Launcher (and Action Replay, which is pretty much the same thing) will launch on an unmodded Gamecube – but apparently their means of producing those discs is some closely-guarded secret.

They produced all sorts of funny things for disc based consoles – like a media player for the PS2.

Spoiler: Or this nonsense

But in the end that is nothing we can do at home or ask any CD/DVD replicator to do for us.
Consoles were cracked early on and piracy was everywhere – but the discs as such have not been beat on large scale (with consumer equipment).
Later even Datel had to give up since they can't easily bypass signature checks on unmodified consoles, even when having the correct markings on discs to satisfy the check.

Since Nintendo's 10NES/CIC for (S)NES/N64 has been reverse engineered with the result of an aftermarket multi-region Super-CIC (only took a few decades…), there are new unofficial (commercial) releases for old cart based consoles.
Nothing to my knowledge for PS1/PS2/Saturn/GC as producing valid discs is HARD. Even the theory is hard to understand – let alone actually producing some. With the recent proof of concept of self-booting CD-R for the PS1 this might or might not change.

 

[redunka]

3DO is another console that has no CD copy protection. It'll play burnt CD games with no modifications.

Yeah, this is true for most 3DO models, except GDO-202P and GDO-203P (Alive II) by GoldStar.
IIRC, those two will check for presence of an empty sector that usually exits on licensed discs and some pressed bootlegs, but pretty much impossible to have on CD-Rs; so to play burned copies on such a model one would need to either modchip it, use swap tricks or manually stop the disc from spinning at a specific moment.
What's funny: apparently, sometimes those GoldStars may also refuse to play certain legit discs, because not all of them have that empty sector.

 

[Yaro]

The Sega CD/Mega CD does not have any copy protection, but rather, simple region lock-out checks that can be easily bypassed by patching the disc image.

As author of homebrew, can you just do "all region" release, or have to use region stuff still?

 

[SylverReZ]

As author of homebrew, can you just do "all region" release, or have to use region stuff still?

Not as far as I am aware of, not without a region free BIOS replacement.

 

[Yaro]

Also, what about PC Engine CD? For some reason, I'm such used to Sega/Nintendo systems being the "stars" for homebrew talk, I don't even know if PCE/Tubographx have a comparable homebrew making scene...

EDIT:

okay, looks like I just never heard of them XD
http://www.pcengine.co.uk/HTML_A-Z_Pages/homebrew.htm

 

[Blavla]

PSP

 

[Yaro]

PSP

Oh, I love PSP. But I don't see any option for homebrew enthusiast to create UMD. Also it will still be inferior to running game from memory card. I don't know what would be a way to make a physical release of homebrew for PSP except for "collector's edtion" that has stuff like artbook or music CD, meanwhile providing game data in digital that is intended to being put on PSP externally.

Same with Vita, sadly.

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Anyway, with PCE CD I've read this:

On the other side, CD-ROM games are neither region-locked nor copy-protected, but bear in mind that they still need a System Card to bootstrap them (which is region-locked).

And "System Card", from what I understand, is something that every PCE CD unit has it already. Interesting...

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Dreamcast is the obvious one. GameCube and PS2 both had homebrew on pressed discs. And both PS1 and PS2 had disc swap tricks, which technically would count.
Even an unmodded Wii might be able to read homebrew from pressed discs given an old enough firmware version, thanks to the trucha bug.

The Gamecube SD Media Launcher (and Action Replay, which is pretty much the same thing) will launch on an unmodded Gamecube – but apparently their means of producing those discs is some closely-guarded secret.

The trick is in the bumps on the plastic of the disc, which emulate how the copy protection works on retail discs (there's a MVG video if you want more details, IIRC the pressing process is not able to recreate that data normally)
The bumps are visible to the naked eye, I used to think they were just for decoration or to differentiate their discs from official ones.

 

[Jayro]

While this is a bit trivial on the subject, you can take a PS1 CD, pop it into any PC with a CD-ROM drive, and copy the game ISO to PC with no issues for PSP (eboot.pbp) conversion. The PS1's copy protection only affects optical drive checks in the console itself, not on a computer.

 

[Kwyjor]

there's a MVG video if you want more details

Yes, I remember that video. As far as I'm concerned he's pulling things out of thin air; he hardly provides "details". Downright infuriating, really.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Dreamcast is the obvious one. GameCube and PS2 both had homebrew on pressed discs. And both PS1 and PS2 had disc swap tricks, which technically would count.
Even an unmodded Wii might be able to read homebrew from pressed discs given an old enough firmware version, thanks to the trucha bug.

What homebrew exists on GC/PS2 pressed disc? There are some unlicensed/unofficial discs. But actual small homebrew projects?

Swap tricks, especially those grabbing spinning discs, should not count as they are dangerous for the hardware.

There is Freeloader for Wii, a pressed unofficial disc, working only on very old firmware (exactly the trucha bug).

Yes, I remember that video. As far as I'm concerned he's pulling things out of thin air; he hardly provides "details". Downright infuriating, really.

Indeed. There is not much detail in that video. Why does everything have to be a short video nowadays? And dumbed down on top?

The technical details are very complex. I've posted this link in the context of GC/Wii multiple times already (but it seems nobody reads that):
https://debugmo.de/2022/05/fjita-the-project-that-wasnt-meant-to-be/
That is a very good explanation going pretty deep into the matter. But it requires actively reading and thinking an hour and relies on some previous knowledge. That is something different than watching a shallow video with some superficial summary.