Hacking Why add anti-piracy measures to Devolution ?

[wiismodrome]

So what does this tell you?

That the contents of the authentication file are time dependent? FWIW, Devolution creates a blank file for my copy of Rogue Leader... no idea what that means.

BTW, although the developer said that he was fine with discussion about breaking the AP, the mods do not seem open to the idea; perhaps bear that in mind....

 

[smf]

Uh yeah, no kidding. I understand people hating piracy, but why should we suffer

Why should he do ANYTHING for you?

Answer that. Go on, try.

He doesn't have to do anything & he wasn't asking him to, the question was why did he do something.

Now that tueidj has said to not discuss it & it's flogging a dead horse, then I expect many more posts on the subject.

 

[wiismodrome]

Now that tueidj has said to not discuss it & it's flogging a dead horse, then I expect many more posts on the subject.

He said not to discuss it in the official thread.... but did not seem to have a problem with discussion elsewhere.

 

[WiiUBricker]

I restored the first DVV and replaced with the new one and guess what, it worked. This means that one game can have more than one DVV.

 

[KazoWAR]

Its not random, I am thinking the data is is encrypted, since DVV fails if renamed, moved/copied, the encryption key might be something like the last modified date, the location or raw data used to say where the file is in the FAT table, or the offset in the FAT table the file is located.

 

[Cuphat]

Whatever reasons you might have for for wanting AP, and without regard to the fact that the developer has no obligation to release anything at all, it is indisputable that the addition of AP makes the software objectively less useful than if it hadn't been included.

 

[Rydian]

Bitching and moaning aside, here is something intersting regarding the DVVs of Devolution.

I installed Tales of Symphonia PAL and this is the DVV I got:
http://i47.tinypic.com/o0rls7.png

Then I deleted the DVV and installed the same game again. I expected to get the exact same DVV, but the new DVV is different:
http://i46.tinypic.com/1pxaw9.png

So what does this tell you?

Well obviously if it was something static people could trade the files.

The question becomes what's being used as the input that changes? Time is an obvious one (being the traditional seed for rand() among others), but there's other things to consider, such as amount of free space, number of files on the drive, things like that could be used... but likely just used to generate a random piece of info used to confirm that the hashes (and some unchanging hardware IDs, I'd assume) contained in the files were legitly-created.

Go bitch to someone who cares.

Coming from the guy who's complaining about AP in a product that was released with AP that the author has stated he will not remove. You're bitching and the author said from the start it's his decision and he doesn't care how you take it (in fact he didn't even want discussion of it in his thread because his decision is presumably final).

EDIT:

Whatever reasons you might have for for wanting AP, and without regard to the fact that the developer has no obligation to release anything at all, it is indisputable that the addition of AP makes the software objectively less useful than if it hadn't been included.

Yes, I think we all agree on that part (which is why people want the AP removed). I'm sitting here defending the author's ability to make this decision, but I agree that it's one that limits the people that can use it.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Anybody interested in testing my DVVs out with Tales of Symphonia PAL?

 

[Nujui]

Am I the only one that doesn't mind this kind of thing? I kinda like the idea .

It's not like he's forcing you to use his Backup Loader, there are other methods/loaders that don't incorporate his AP method.

 

[Etheboss]

Whatever reasons you might have for for wanting AP, and without regard to the fact that the developer has no obligation to release anything at all, it is indisputable that the addition of AP makes the software objectively less useful than if it hadn't been included.

Yes, I think we all agree on that part (which is why people want the AP removed). I'm sitting here defending the author's ability to make this decision, but I agree that it's one that limits the people that can use it.

+1

Anybody interested in testing my DVVs out with Tales of Symphonia PAL?

I ve to set up Devolution first, and i am goint to bed in a few mins., but yeah PM me the DVV please.. i will post my results tomorrow.

 

[NightsOwl]

People saying you can't buy Gamecube games anymore....

There's the Internet, y'know, where people sell games, used, and stuff? You can like, buy them from that. And I don't know, support someone who presumably needs the money.

Just because the money doesn't go to Nintendo or a Store directly doesn't mean it doesn't help out certain people. Maybe he's thinking about those people, even if there is an alternate way. Maybe the extra features would be enough of a push. I mean, c'mon. Most GC games aren't even 15 bucks.

 

[Cuphat]

People saying you can't buy Gamecube games anymore....

There's the Internet, y'know, where people sell games, used, and stuff? You can like, buy them from that. And I don't know, support someone who presumably needs the money.

Just because the money doesn't go to Nintendo or a Store directly doesn't mean it doesn't help out certain people.

The point to that is that, besides some games just being rare, the developers/publishers of those games still won't see a dime.

 

[Maxternal]

This all depends on the way you look at it (thus the debate)

I don't think I've read many people say I want to pirate and he won't let me, There are just A FEW who are saying it's a dead system and the company will no longer profit from it anyhow. For the most part that's true although there may not be any legal backing for that argument. There are some exceptions, though, which I assume is why there isn't legal backing to it (examples: Several Resident Evil GC games were re released for the Wii. there's VC games. Nintendo also re-released several GC titles for the for the Wii and has often re-made classic games with improved graphics and slight modifications like Ocarina of time 3D not to mention all the "collection" games out there like megaman X, metal slug, mario, etc.) The law would make an argument similar to one that's been used to defend [member='tueIDj'], the games published by a company are "their apps" they can do what they want with them, including stop selling them. Anyway, I think I'm beating a dead horse here as far as lecturing the real pirates. I know there are plenty of members here that don't pirate a thing and just enjoy the ease and other benefits of backup loading. I, myself, can't say I'm not guilty of piracy but at least I do understand the legal concept behind it. I might kinda try to justify it to myself sometimes but I don't go around trying to prove it publicly and declare that those who are trying to stop them are evil. That's just silly.

anyway

What we've mostly seen is people who have the following situations (I'm sure I'm missing somebody, oh well)
1. broken drive
2. scratched disk
3. new wii
4. disk was lost, stolen, given away, broken completely

I can see these people's points and they have made them well known as well.
Except for #3, Devolution will at least be great for anyone to these things happen to in the future. If you make your backups now and verify them, and lose drive or disks then you won't be in this boat in the future. It still sucks for any of those who didn't have Devolution around before they lost drives or disks. The truth is, specifically, those who intentionally gave their disks away, it's no longer yours so you don't really have any legal right to them any more. If you made backups before giving them away, it's still piracy. You're still making a copy and distributing one of those copies. You just distributed the original one, but it's the same thing. Just the medium is different.

As for #3, you kinda really did purchase a piece of hardware that wasn't actually meant to play GC games. It's kinda like buying ps3 and then complaining because they didn't include GC compatibility. At least it has half the functionality but traditionally, you would have to buy a WODE and solder the missing ports on so the fact that [member='tueidj'] isn't giving it to you for free is no crime. (although he keeps insinuating he will somehow, but who knows how, when, if, etc.)

Really that last statement could be said true for all of those in the list, he didn't come over to your Wii and take something from you that you already had. You have something broken or missing. He just didn't happen to provide you with a free fix. Most people, from this point of view, are just complaining because he obviously has the know-how to fix their problem and he ALMOST did. I'm sure they just feel a little like he's laughing at their pain. But as the phase goes, "beggars can't be choosers". c'mon guys, it's free. You get what you paid for ... (wait, I just realized the double meaning there, I'm sure you paid for your broken disks and drives, too, oops, sorry. )

For those who just have their disks scratched, if you're lucky and manage to download a good dump of the game, the disk just might work enough to verify it. You should give it a try. For those who it's just refusing to verify your clean original disk, it's new software. It has bugs. That, at least, is something he might be willing to fix if someone could show him technical data as to why it's broken.

I could go on and on but I'm getting tired and about 27 posts have been made since I started writing so I'm gonna end my babbling rant and post now.

 

[NightsOwl]

People saying you can't buy Gamecube games anymore....

There's the Internet, y'know, where people sell games, used, and stuff? You can like, buy them from that. And I don't know, support someone who presumably needs the money.

Just because the money doesn't go to Nintendo or a Store directly doesn't mean it doesn't help out certain people.

The point to that is that, besides some games just being rare, the developers/publishers of those games still won't see a dime.

It still helps other people. It adds another potential buyer. Just because devs aren't getting the money, that doesn't mean you should just download the game willy nilly. People still try to get sales on used games for some extra cash in their pocket for possibly an essential thing.

 

[jalaneme]

Just use Dolphin and enjoy some of the most awesome HD GC/Wii emulation

Not sure if this helps any but its always nice to have options.

*end topic*

 

[Maxternal]

*end topic*

*restart topic*

(Hey, someone else was bound to start it again )

 

[wiismodrome]

For those who it's just refusing to verify your clean original disk, it's new software. It has bugs. That, at least, is something he might be willing to fix if someone could show him technical data as to why it's broken.

Not sure what else I can provide. I have an SD Gecko, but not a USB Gecko.

When starting Rogue Squadron, Devolution reads the disc and quickly flashes what appears to be five times, creates an empty authentication file, then hard locks the Wii. CleanRip reports that all of the hash information is perfect.

 

[Maxternal]

For those who it's just refusing to verify your clean original disk, it's new software. It has bugs. That, at least, is something he might be willing to fix if someone could show him technical data as to why it's broken.

Not sure what else I can provide. I have an SD Gecko, but not a USB Gecko.

When starting Rogue Squadron, Devolution reads the disc and quickly flashes what appears to be five times, creates an empty authentication file, then hard locks the Wii. CleanRip reports that all of the hash information is perfect.

What other games have you gotten to run? I understand that verification takes some time. I'd assume it's verifying the checksum of the disk image. It might just be that it creates the empty file first (to create a timestamp to base it off of maybe?) and then fills it all in when it's done. Just a guess. He who programmed it is hesitant to tell us much about how he did it.

(I really need to go home and actually try this out myself over the weekend but I've been working for the last 13 hours. I do have a NTSC copy of the game. I can test it myself IF I can find time. Was it Rogue Squadron 2 or 3, I have both.)

 

[Hozu]

8.People who lost or gave away their GC discs would be able to play their games

Pretty sure you need to be in possession of the specific disc that you made a backup from for you to legally keep it. Even if it's smashed into dust.

For the people that are complaining about how they can't play their games because of their Wii... Well if this didn't exist at all you still couldn't play it. So I don't see what the problem is. Get something that CAN play your old GC games.

If you made backups before you lost the GC game... well see what I said at the top. If your discs are damaged... well that's the only thing I can sympathize with. But that's life; shit happens.

And for all the people saying why have AP for a "dead" system. I have two words for you: "Virtual" and "Console".

tueidj made a decision. If you want to use his code you play by his rules. Don't like it? Then don't use it. Make your own damn code, or use somebody else's code.

 

[wiismodrome]

What other games have you gotten to run? I understand that verification takes some time. I'd assume it's verifying the checksum of the disk image. It might just be that it creates the empty file first (to create a timestamp to base it off of maybe?) and then fills it all in when it's done. Just a guess. He who programmed it is hesitant to tell us much about how he did it.

(I really need to go home and actually try this out myself over the weekend but I've been working for the last 13 hours. I do have a NTSC copy of the game. I can test it myself IF I can find time. Was it Rogue Squadron 2 or 3, I have both.)

SW RS II: Rogue Leader.

I've tried one more time just now and left it running.... all the other games were authenticated very quickly. SFA, Eternal Darkness, Zelda Collectors, and maybe a few more have been tested and are working. Please report back with your results... though perhaps the main thread is a better place for this topic.