PS1/2 Why might this burned game be failing?

[Drambit]

Here is the problem:

I burned a ton of games for my PSX recently. All of them were verified after burning to make sure they burned correctly.

After burning I labeled them all. Some of them had artwork printed directly onto the disc, others had artwork printed to sticky labels that were then applied to the disc. Here is an album of some of the discs.

The **only** game that gives me any trouble at all is Spyro: The Dragon. My PSX can get through the opening FMV of FFVII without a single skip, on a paper labeled disc, or a real disc, or a direct printed disc, no problem on any of them, but for some reason spyro constantly lags, the audio cuts in and out, sometimes it stalls completely.

I tested the disc image file on retroarch emulator, there were no such issues.

So, to summarize:

• I know the laser isn't toast because it runs all other games perfectly.
• I know the ISO isn't bad because it works perfectly in emulators.
• I know the burn is good because I verified it after burning.
• It still runs like garbage.

I'm going to the store tomorrow to buy a legitimate copy of the game, but I am so baffled by this problem that I want to try to figure it out anyway.

Any ideas what could be wrong?

 

[KleinesSinchen]

I can't recall any particularly big problems with Spyro 1 – neither on my legit CD nor on the CD-R copy.
The game is arguably not as well developed as the successors. It doesn't feel fully fluent.

I know the burn is good because I verified it after burning.

Sadly no. A PC drive verifying a CD without error isn't an indication for

A) Good media quality​

B) Good burn quality​

C) If a garbage grade console drive can also read it flawlessly¹​

A) and B) can verified with a drive allowing access to Jitter/Beta and C1/C2/Cu numbers. Sadly the real Plextor drives are increasingly hard to find and the are aging as well.
====

I know the ISO isn't bad because it works perfectly in emulators.

A first orientation, but that is not perfect. Emulators tend to be more forgiving with errors than real hardware.
Sometimes romhacks don't even work on real hardware (can't remember an example… guess it was some Mario 64 hack that didn't run on real N64)
Check your image with Redump database.
====

If you have another CD-R type (different dye) at hand, you could try burning a second copy. It is strange though… if all other games work normally from the same type.






By the way: Your custom CDs look gorgeous (funny thing is the "REPLICA" on it… else they would pass for high quality illegal commercial bootlegs)




____________________________
¹ I've scanned a legit PlayStation 2 DVD. When I got this thing, it was scratched beyond believe (in reality it looked A LOT(!!) worse than on the scan). Results:

• PS2 won't play it. Not a chance!
• PC drive: Full speed ahead! No errors! Not even a single slowdown.

Spoiler: Image

 

[SylverReZ]

Sadly no. A PC drive verifying a CD without error isn't an indication for

A) Good media quality​

B) Good burn quality​

C) If a garbage grade console drive can also read it flawlessly¹​

Can also be down to the burner, most later drives cannot write CD-Rs at slower speeds and have become much more cheaply made. I've always used Plextor and ASUS drives for burning media and none of those Lite-On or slimline laptop drives.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Yes, I know this goes off-topic. It is still a bit relevant since checking burn results is a good idea.

Can also be down to the burner, most later drives cannot write CD-Rs at slower speeds and have become much more cheaply made. I've always used Plextor and ASUS drives for burning media and none of those Lite-On or slimline laptop drives.

Problem is: The real Plextors are roughly two decades old. I've a PX-760A and the Premium, both somewhat working, but ages takes a toll.
Not using the Premium much other than the SecuROM New copies and checking C1/C1/Cu and Beta/Jitter with Plextools.

Would love to get a fully working Premium and a Premium 2… but the prices are beyond good and evil. There is no way I'm going to pay several hundred Euros for an old drive. Will not support greed.

I've a pretty new (2018 or so) ASUS DVD±RW drive, which allows getting C1/C2/Cu data with Nero Disc Speed (freeware). So it is possible to find drives compatible with current PCs allowing testing CDs (and Pi/Po for DVD).
=========

Fully back to topic: Since it is unlikely to be a CD-R or burner problem (I would check it though) when all other games work flawlessly, I'm at a loss what is going on here.
@Drambit Please post updates if you find out something.

Good luck!

 

[godreborn]

can't tell you for sure, but some psx games have ap. however, I think it's most likely laser issues. psx lasers seem to be very finicky just like ps2 ones. I finally found a ps2 on ebay with a perfect, working laser, because I had major issues getting mm anniversary collection to run. it now runs flawlessly.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

can't tell you for sure, but some psx games have ap.

Spyro 1 isn't one of those.

 

[godreborn]

I didn't think it was. I know capcom is one company that did several ap titles.

 

[SylverReZ]

Yes, I know this goes off-topic. It is still a bit relevant since checking burn results is a good idea.


Problem is: The real Plextors are roughly two decades old. I've a PX-760A and the Premium, both somewhat working, but ages takes a toll.
Not using the Premium much other than the SecuROM New copies and checking C1/C1/Cu and Beta/Jitter with Plextools.

Would love to get a fully working Premium and a Premium 2… but the prices are beyond good and evil. There is no way I'm going to pay several hundred Euros for an old drive. Will not support greed.

I've a pretty new (2018 or so) ASUS DVD±RW drive, which allows getting C1/C2/Cu data with Nero Disc Speed (freeware). So it is possible to find drives compatible with current PCs allowing testing CDs (and Pi/Po for DVD).
=========

Fully back to topic: Since it is unlikely to be a CD-R or burner problem (I would check it though) when all other games work flawlessly, I'm at a loss what is going on here.
@Drambit Please post updates if you find out something.

Good luck!

Yeah, I was gonna pick up the Premium model but oh god the prices were just too much. So I resorted instead to picking up a W4012TA and PX-760A, altogether that was around £60 which sounds too good to be true. Sadly, I believe the laser in my PX-760A is wearing out, because reading certain discs can be a mixed bag.

As for the CD-Rs themselves, don't use off-store brands but rather use Verbatim or JVC/TY media, as they work the best for backups.

Post automatically merged: Dec 28, 2022

I didn't think it was. I know capcom is one company that did several ap titles.

There were many different types of anti-piracy measures for PS1 games. The first game to ever feature it would be PoPoRoGue, and that was to check whether the modchip was constantly sending the SCEX string, this was later circumvented by stealth modchips which turns off after a given amount of time has passed. Then, the next routines came into play (games made near to 00s), where it would check both the SCEX string and the TOC (full length on the CD) to see if it matched, eliminating all swap trick methods to be performed - some games even checked the country code in the BIOS to see if it matched with the game coming from what region.

 

[Drambit]

Can also be down to the burner, most later drives cannot write CD-Rs at slower speeds and have become much more cheaply made. I've always used Plextor and ASUS drives for burning media and none of those Lite-On or slimline laptop drives.

This wouldn't really surprise me, the natural follow-up to that is "how do I check?"

can't tell you for sure, but some psx games have ap. however, I think it's most likely laser issues. psx lasers seem to be very finicky just like ps2 ones. I finally found a ps2 on ebay with a perfect, working laser, because I had major issues getting mm anniversary collection to run. it now runs flawlessly.

What is ap?

Yeah, I was gonna pick up the Premium model but oh god the prices were just too much. So I resorted instead to picking up a W4012TA and PX-760A, altogether that was around £60 which sounds too good to be true. Sadly, I believe the laser in my PX-760A is wearing out, because reading certain discs can be a mixed bag.

As for the CD-Rs themselves, don't use off-store brands but rather use Verbatim or JVC/TY media, as they work the best for backups.

They are good brand new verbatim printable cd-r with silver. Again, no issues with any of the other discs.

How exactly do you verify if a burn is "good" or not? What features would I need on the drive, and what tests would I need to run? I have two full size PC CD drives. One of them is an Asus I bought 3 years ago, and it just completely doesn't work anymore despite only having been used twice ever, the other that I used for burning is vintage at this point, beige from the early-mid 2000s, I would have no idea if it supports what is necessary.

Certainly I would not be surprised if this drive has issues, it's just weird that all the other discs work so flawlessly.

Generally I would also not be surprised at all if the laser was failing either, the PSX is old, but it seems to have no issues with any other game, I tested it yesterday on 14 other games and didn't see any skipping or odd behavior.

 

[godreborn]

ap = antipiracy. I didn't look the game up. I've personally encountered issues with some games on older ps2s I had. anniversary collection especially. I think burns were totally fucked up, but the legit disc worked fine. the lasers are just stubborn.

 

[SylverReZ]

What is ap?

Anti-piracy. Measure put in place to stop pirated games from being played on modified consoles.

This wouldn't really surprise me, the natural follow-up to that is "how do I check?"

Nero Disc Speed is a good program to check if your disc has errors.

Generally I would also not be surprised at all if the laser was failing either, the PSX is old, but it seems to have no issues with any other game, I tested it yesterday on 14 other games and didn't see any skipping or odd behavior.

It also happens with later PS2 models as well, most commonly the V9+ motherboards where the mechacon would seize up and burn out the laser if the disc inserted was burned or scratched. Fixes exist such as the Matrix PIC and diode fixes where it would lower the laser current or quickly power off the console to stop this from happening. But like with most disc-based consoles, the laser will soon die out at any point in time. It's also hard to find replacements even, not without salvaging one from a used console.

 

[Drambit]

Anti-piracy. Measure put in place to stop pirated games from being played on modified consoles.

Nero Disc Speed is a good program to check if your disc has errors.

It also happens with later PS2 models as well, most commonly the V9+ motherboards where the mechacon would seize up and burn out the laser if the disc inserted was burned or scratched. Fixes exist such as the Matrix PIC and diode fixes where it would lower the laser current or quickly power off the console to stop this from happening. But like with most disc-based consoles, the laser will soon die out at any point in time. It's also hard to find replacements even, not without salvaging one from a used console.

Alright I'll try nero. The lasers aren't particularly hard to find, I've replaced a couple of them for friends in the last year. I'm not sure how trustworthy the Aliexpress sellers are but they sure have a lot of lasers.

I actually get PTSD from thinking about hardmodded PS2s. It took me 4 tries to modchip a ps2 successfully, frying the other 3 in the process. I feel like it was almost as difficult as heart surgery.

 

[SylverReZ]

Alright I'll try nero. The lasers aren't particularly hard to find, I've replaced a couple of them for friends in the last year. I'm not sure how trustworthy the Aliexpress sellers are but they sure have a lot of lasers.

I actually get PTSD from thinking about hardmodded PS2s. It took me 4 tries to modchip a ps2 successfully, frying the other 3 in the process. I feel like it was almost as difficult as heart surgery.

I wouldn't advise getting replacement lasers from AliExpress. The mechanism breaks so easily and I've heard many bad things about them.

 

[Drambit]

The disc past both the Nero DiskSpeed check and the Imgburn ISO verification with 100%, 0 errors.

 

[SylverReZ]

The disc past both the Nero DiskSpeed check and the Imgburn ISO verification with 100%, 0 errors.

Nice stuff, seems like the laser may be the issue. For good measures though, have you tried different drives?

 

[Drambit]

Nice stuff, seems like the laser may be the issue. For good measures though, have you tried different drives?

I only have one working CD drive for PC, and one working PSX, so nope. I wonder if it's just some slight wobble in the disc caused by slightly off center paper label that is causing the problem. This doesn't seem to cause any issue in some of my other games with slightly off center labels.

 

[SylverReZ]

I only have one working CD drive for PC, and one working PSX, so nope. I wonder if it's just some slight wobble in the disc caused by slightly off center paper label that is causing the problem. This doesn't seem to cause any issue in some of my other games with slightly off center labels.

I wouldn't trust sticky labels for sure as the adhesive can damage the data layer overtime.

 

[Drambit]

I wouldn't trust sticky labels for sure as the adhesive can damage the data layer overtime.

I have heard this, but the effect certainly isn't rapid. I have discs with sticky labels on them from over 10 years ago that still work fine, all my other discs with sticky labels - even the ones with significantly off-center placement - work fine too.

 

[godreborn]

I have heard this, but the effect certainly isn't rapid. I have discs with sticky labels on them from over 10 years ago that still work fine, all my other discs with sticky labels - even the ones with significantly off-center placement - work fine too.

As I said, the optical drives of the psx, 2, and even 3 are true garbage. Some games may not work for inexplicable reasons. I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[SylverReZ]

As I said, the optical drives of the psx, 2, and even 3 are true garbage. Some games may not work for inexplicable reasons. I don't know what else to tell you.

Especially the older PSX models where they originally used a plastic mechanism instead of a die-cast one, in which most of the time they always fail.