Hacking Why Nintendo can't rely on Pin 10 reading

[V-Temp]

Doesn't need to be 100% reliable if the pin is always low on readout they'd have some degree of separation between probabilistic occurrence and ''this exceeds probability".

And if they respond to such bans with 'send in for repair' they just remove an old SoC from circulation. They'd know if you were banned for a hardware related queery.

I doubt they'd ban based on this either way. They ban for piracy which is far easier for then to detect if your sending them online data for then to be reading your pin status.

 

[ken28]

Doesn't need to be 100% reliable if the pin is always low on readout they'd have some degree of separation between probabilistic occurrence and ''this exceeds probability".

And if they respond to such bans with 'send in for repair' they just remove an old SoC from circulation. They'd know if you were banned for a hardware related queery.

I doubt they'd ban based on this either way. They ban for piracy which is far easier for then to detect if your sending them online data for then to be reading your pin status.

i doubt they will ban purely on this, they may rise a internal flag in their system and if anythign else thats is strange happens like let us say using fakemons its a console ban.

 

[Onibi]

I would argue that Nintendo can just use it as a feature of many to make a final determination about a switch. You don't have to decide based on it, but you can reason in connection with other things.

To me, this sounds like a perfectly good first indicator to scan for and then run some potentially more in-depth analysis.

I wouldn't do it.

But I gotta say, a 3d printed part sure would be convenient to have ...

 

[notimp]

Gotta say - I love Nintendos design..

 

[TheCyberQuake]

Can they do it? Probably. Will they do it? Probably not.
Will I still attempt to install a Reed switch to only short the pins when I need to just in case? Definitely. Also because magnethax.

 

[BL4Z3D247]

Can they do it? Probably. Will they do it? Probably not.
Will I still attempt to install a Reed switch to only short the pins when I need to just in case? Definitely. Also because magnethax.

Wait, what about MagnetHax though?

 

[Deathscreton]

Doesn't need to be 100% reliable if the pin is always low on readout they'd have some degree of separation between probabilistic occurrence and ''this exceeds probability".

And if they respond to such bans with 'send in for repair' they just remove an old SoC from circulation. They'd know if you were banned for a hardware related queery.

I doubt they'd ban based on this either way. They ban for piracy which is far easier for then to detect if your sending them online data for then to be reading your pin status.

Again, staff has already confirmed this. They even brought up the "lows and highs" for floating pins and stated that they can't determine a hacked console this way. They've squashed all doubts about this. There's a whole discussion that was pertaining to it in the chat. It cannot be detected via grounding pin 10. At all. Probability be damned.

Because I can google and read, I can do research:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-floating-input-gate

But what happens if one or both of the inputs is left unconnected, so no signal is applied to it at all? We say it's left to float, which means it's in an indeterminate state: maybe high, maybe low, maybe somewhere in the middle. Worse, it may even change depending on other conditions in the environment. That means the output may be unreliable, and that's usually not what we want.

 

[TheCyberQuake]

Wait, what about MagnetHax though?

Reed switch is a electrical switch activated by a magnet. I'm installing one inside the joycon so that the internal joycon hardmod pin shorting will (hopefully) only happen when I hold a magnet to the joycon. Which is basically a fun way to make FG work like magnethax on 3ds.

 

[VashTS]

if you run unauthorized software, you are going to get banned. EZ

you agreed to not run that stuff when you bought it/turned it on/updated/existed.

however they detect it is moot. assume banning and be happy if you don't. this rule has existed since the era of online play guys.

 

[Deathscreton]

if you run unauthorized software, you are going to get banned. EZ

you agreed to not run that stuff when you bought it/turned it on/updated/existed.

however they detect it is moot. assume banning and be happy if you don't. this rule has existed since the era of online play guys.

but what if i play through a vpn
what if i play at a library so they don't know where i am
what if i pay jimmy from down the street to set up my network so im invisible /s

 

[BL4Z3D247]

Reed switch is a electrical switch activated by a magnet. I'm installing one inside the joycon so that the internal joycon hardmod pin shorting will (hopefully) only happen when I hold a magnet to the joycon. Which is basically a fun way to make FG work like magnethax on 3ds.

Would LOVE to see a write up of that(if you have the time of course). Stellar idea.

 

[willdunz]

Yeah I agree you are much more likely to be banned for playing online. Maybe you cheated in pokemon or something.

 

[TerraPhantm]

Again, staff has already confirmed this. They even brought up the "lows and highs" for floating pins and stated that they can't determine a hacked console this way. They've squashed all doubts about this. There's a whole discussion that was pertaining to it in the chat. It cannot be detected via grounding pin 10. At all. Probability be damned.

Because I can google and read, I can do research:

https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-floating-input-gate

Is it definitely floating on the switch? There may well be a pull up resistor on board. Additionally, if that pin is occasionally driven high and the Switch is unable to do so, then that can be detected.

 

[VashTS]

but what if i play through a vpn
what if i play at a library so they don't know where i am
what if i pay jimmy from down the street to set up my network so im invisible /s

I've already figured out the easiest way to pirate Switch games and even to pirate the CONSOLE ITSELF!

1. Contact a person that has a Switch and the game you want to play
2. Ask them to let you play
3. When they say yes, BOOM, free switch and game of your choosing
4. CONSOLE BANNED - you didn't pay for the game or the switch, Nintendo detected it

 

[osaka35]

...it isn't that hard. The question is what's the certainty threshold nintendo has to have before they ban people. We can look at past bans for that. It's quite possible they're happy with the risk of possibly banning a few non-hacky folks, if they think it'll hamper abuse. They might not. But you can't assume they won't, that's just head-in-the-sand thinking. "sometimes on" isn't the same thing as "always on". There's the possibility they can extract a higher certainty than you think they can. There's enough unknown in this situation to warrant a bit more caution.

 

[SnAQ]

Let´s just hope that they do find some way to find and ban people with modded consoles.

 

[subcon959]

Probability be damned

Probability is kinda the whole point. We all agree that it's floating and therefore you can't reliably say whether it should be high or low at any given point, right? Well, that's kinda what makes it detectable if it's then suddenly 100% a certain way every single time you scan it. I think it's probably ridiculous to think they would actually do this, but it's also wrong to say it can't look suspicious if being scanned.

 

[Deathscreton]

Probability is kinda the whole point. We all agree that it's floating and therefore you can't reliably say whether it should be high or low at any given point, right? Well, that's kinda what makes it detectable if it's then suddenly 100% a certain way every single time you scan it. I think it's probably ridiculous to think they would actually do this, but it's also wrong to say it can't look suspicious if being scanned.

The point being made by the devs is that, even when it's NOT shorted, the pin can STILL show as grounded for looong periods of times. It doesn't matter because shorted or not, the pin looks like it's behaving in a way a floating pin behaves. There is no way useful and meaningful way to determine this. Not to mention having to query the pin as rapidly as needed to tell if it's grounded or not is a terrible way to detect unauthorized modifications.

 

[subcon959]

Hence why I said it would be ridiculous of them to do it this way. But, probability-wise it's still a thing.

 

[cmsj]

Bam
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I'm not sure I get how this can be true - if the early boot sequence can tell that the Tegra's Home button is being held (i.e. pin 10 is shorted to ground) to trigger recovery mode, why couldn't Horizon read the status of the Tegra's Home button and know immediately that you've modded your joycon?