Rape and pregnancy: the ignorance of the GOP

[FAST6191]

"I want to have sex, but I don't want to be pregnant" Is this the kind of thinking people have nowadays when they know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

Given it is quite reasonable/cheap (or possibly even free at the cost of a bit of time) to get yourself into a position to have as much sex as you can handle without there being a reasonable risk of pregnancy is it such an unjustifiable position?

 

[DiscostewSM]

.....and also, to all those out there who think babies can come from toenails......that's not right either......

But they do come from special hugs.
[yt]l4lG4m5kdWM[/yt]

 

[emigre]

Doesn't using a contraceptive come with the knowledge that it isn't 100% reliable? Everyone takes risks, but it seems many feel that their "risk" shouldn't be taken out on themselves when they get unlucky. That seems to be the consensus nowadays.

Take out your own wallet for an abortion that shouldn't have been needed had one been smart about what they were doing beforehand.

One post you stating people should think ahead before the intercourse. And if they are smart yet the contraception fails than they should just deal with it?

 

[thisismyname]

.....and also, to all those out there who think babies can come from toenails......that's not right either......

But they do come from special hugs.
[yt]l4lG4m5kdWM[/yt]

That...is adorable.

 

[Minox]

You know, I really think the answer to this question is quite simple. If you as a person think abortion is murder then if prompted with a situation where you find yourself faced with this question then don't do it.

But please let others make up their minds themselves, nobody likes a preacher.

 

[Foxi4]

Two consenting adults who chose to have sexual intercourse without protection should be fully prepared to face the consequences of such an act. The only instance in which a government-funded abortion is acceptable is when the pregnancy is a result of [censored] - it's really that simple to me.

 

[kupo3000]

You know, I really think the answer to this question is quite simple. If you as a person think abortion is murder then if prompted with a situation where you find yourself faced with this question then don't do it.

But please let others make up their minds themselves, nobody likes a preacher.

Yep, I keep noticing that pro-lifers or anti-choicers rely way too much on black and white POVs.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Doesn't using a contraceptive come with the knowledge that it isn't 100% reliable? Everyone takes risks, but it seems many feel that their "risk" shouldn't be taken out on themselves when they get unlucky. That seems to be the consensus nowadays.

Take out your own wallet for an abortion that shouldn't have been needed had one been smart about what they were doing beforehand.

One post you stating people should think ahead before the intercourse. And if they are smart yet the contraception fails than they should just deal with it?

Does a gambler get to keep his money after losing a game of poker, even though the odds were mostly in his favor? Risks are made, and risks are carried out. All in all, you either keep the growth in the womb, or pay for that abortion out of your own pocket. The government is not in the room while you are having sex to have any involvement.

 

[thisismyname]

Two consenting adults who chose to have sexual intercourse without protection should be fully prepared to face the consequences of such an act. The only instance in which a government-funded abortion is acceptable is when the pregnancy is a result of [censored] - it's really that simple to me.

The fail argument is: "so wait until a trial determines it was [censored]? But they'll have the baby already, omg!"
Simple answer (keeping in mind I don't even support [censored] abortions): Reimbursement program, after-the fact
"ZOMG but poor^$@ people can't handle upfront costs"

Ever heard of loans?
"ZOMG haven't you ever been around poor folks, they can't get loans!"

Yes. Yes, they can. I have been around "poor" people...They manage just fine to get a mighty large amount of conspicuous items and monies just fine, while staying poor on paper.

For those that can't....thus is life.

 

[thisismyname]

Yep, I keep noticing that pro-lifers or anti-choicers rely way too much on black and white POVs.

HA! ...pretty easy to make a general sweeping untrue statement instead of presenting an actual argument, I'd bet....kind of like the thread title.

 

[emigre]

Does a gambler get to keep his money after losing a game of poker, even though the odds were mostly in his favor? Risks are made, and risks are carried out. All in all, you either keep the growth in the womb, or pay for that abortion out of your own pocket. The government is not in the room while you are having sex to have any involvement.

You're not providing a cohesive argument. You criticise those don't make the correct preparations. Yet should someone make those correct preparations, yet finds the contraception fails through no fault of their own, your answer it with effectively 'tough shit.' You're being contradictory because some lassaiz faire attitude about state provision of services.

 

[thisismyname]

Does a gambler get to keep his money after losing a game of poker, even though the odds were mostly in his favor? Risks are made, and risks are carried out. All in all, you either keep the growth in the womb, or pay for that abortion out of your own pocket. The government is not in the room while you are having sex to have any involvement.

You're not providing a cohesive argument. You criticise those don't make the correct preparations. Yet should someone make those correct preparations, yet finds the contraception fails through no fault of their own, your answer it with effectively 'tough shit.' You're being contradictory because some lassaiz faire attitude about state provision of services.

I haven't really followed what you two have been saying, but I definitely think not taking [censored] seriously is terrible, Akin is an idiot, and life IS tough. Do you disagree that unwanted pregnancy may just be a part of "life is tough," that that's a reasonable assertion? I'm just wondering. It seems a lot of people think "this one part of life should be easy, and only happen exactly when you want it to."

 

[leic7]

"I want to have sex, but I don't want to be pregnant" Is this the kind of thinking people have nowadays when they know that sex can lead to pregnancy?

I don't see why they shouldn't think that. Sex is enjoyable, nothing wrong with wanting to practice it regularly, it's not something anyone should feel ashamed about. At the same time, giving birth is not something anyone should casually do if they're not ready to do it. Sex and childbirth are 2 separate things, there's no conflict between enjoying sex and not wanting to be a parent, at all. So to answer your question: yes.

 

[Clydefrosch]

well, personally i believe that there should be some more responsibility when it comes to sex these days though. even when playing soccer, you got to play with some responsibility towards the other players and your own health, so why cant people do that for sex?

 

[DiscostewSM]

People can think abortion however they want (since it is their decision, no matter what my stance on it is), but I am only against those that have the idea that the government should be involved in the payment for any and all abortion cases.

 

[leic7]

Do you disagree that unwanted pregnancy may just be a part of "life is tough," that that's a reasonable assertion? I'm just wondering. It seems a lot of people think "this one part of life should be easy, and only happen exactly when you want it to."

Unwanted pregnancy is as much a part of "life is tough" as getting sick is a part of it, but just because "life if tough" doesn't mean that we couldn't do anything to make it a little easier. When people get sick, we don't tell them to just accept their sickness and do nothing, instead we actively try and improve their situation via modern medicine. Why would we tell a woman to just accept an unwanted pregnancy and do nothing, when we could actually do something to improve her situation?

 

[thisismyname]

Do you disagree that unwanted pregnancy may just be a part of "life is tough," that that's a reasonable assertion? I'm just wondering. It seems a lot of people think "this one part of life should be easy, and only happen exactly when you want it to."

Unwanted pregnancy is as much a part of "life is tough" as getting sick is a part of it, but just because "life if tough" doesn't mean that we couldn't do anything to make it a little easier. When people get sick, we don't tell them to just accept their sickness and do nothing, instead we actively try and improve their situation via modern medicine. Why would we tell a woman to just accept an unwanted pregnancy and do nothing, when we could actually do something to improve her situation?

....because we already have a million things to help moms.....without killing the unborn.

If it was discovered that drinking the fresh blood of a 25-year-old asian man would instantly cure the common cold...would we support that over plain old cold medicine? You had reasonable arguments before that leic7.

 

[BlueStar]

Now, this is leading me into the territory of no abortion whatsoever, though I already made my stance on raped victims.

So it is the mother's choice about the abortion? What about Gianna Jessen, an abortion survivor from the attempt of her mother, and the many others who survived abortion? Where was their choice to live? Why should they suffer with the ailments and disabilities that came about because of the attempted abortion?

It's unfortunate and demonstrates we need to improve abortion methods and ensure they're carried out early. I could counter with cases of women killed or injured by unsafe abortions they've had to turn to due to abortion restrictions. I'm not pro-abortion. I think it's a bad thing and I think that in the vast majority of cases it's not taken lightly. But I also don't think the government can force people, either through withholding medical treatment (I'm not sure how it is over there, but in most cases goverment funded abortion is only approved when it's believed to be in the best medical interests of the mother, including mental health) or banning it outright to force someone to risk their life for 9 months to turn every potential human into an actual human. I don't think people should be forced by the government to donate bone marrow or a kidney either.

I also don't believe the pro-life mob are about 'saving babies', it's about punishing sex - something you've slipped into occasionally. If it was about saving babies the same group would be pushing for greater access to contraception and sex education, when the opposite is the case. It's about having a government so 'small' that it fits into your vagina.

As for 'I have a moral objection to this, the government can't spend my taxes on it' that never seems to be the case with government spending on lethal injections or missiles.

Would you be ok with charities paying for the abortions of the poor, as opposed to the government directly?

@thisismyname (Is this your first account? Seems strange that someone would sign up for a gaming website just to argue about abortion)

Do you have a surefire way to negate the potentially life-changing consequences of a car crash?

BY GOD YOU'LL BE RICH!!

Do you, apart from the one I've mentioned, never ever get into a car? Just to be sure I get your reasoning, you think abortion should be illegal even to save the life of the mother, in cases of child abuse and [censored]?

 

[BlueStar]

The fail argument is: "so wait until a trial determines it was [censored]? But they'll have the baby already, omg!"
Simple answer (keeping in mind I don't even support [censored] abortions): Reimbursement program, after-the fact
"ZOMG but poor^$@ people can't handle upfront costs"

Ever heard of loans?
"ZOMG haven't you ever been around poor folks, they can't get loans!"

Yes. Yes, they can. I have been around "poor" people...They manage just fine to get a mighty large amount of conspicuous items and monies just fine, while staying poor on paper.

For those that can't....thus is life.

So you get a 'baby killing coupon' (I thought you were against the 'killing of babies'?), but if you can't find the rapist, they don't get proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt or whatever then you suddenly end up with a huge bill?

You've not really thought this through, have you.

 

[leic7]

Do you disagree that unwanted pregnancy may just be a part of "life is tough," that that's a reasonable assertion? I'm just wondering. It seems a lot of people think "this one part of life should be easy, and only happen exactly when you want it to."

Unwanted pregnancy is as much a part of "life is tough" as getting sick is a part of it, but just because "life if tough" doesn't mean that we couldn't do anything to make it a little easier. When people get sick, we don't tell them to just accept their sickness and do nothing, instead we actively try and improve their situation via modern medicine. Why would we tell a woman to just accept an unwanted pregnancy and do nothing, when we could actually do something to improve her situation?

....because we already have a million things to help moms.....without killing the unborn.

If it was discovered that drinking the fresh blood of a 25-year-old asian man would instantly cure the common cold...would we support that over plain old cold medicine? You had reasonable arguments before that leic7.

No, when someone doesn't want her pregnancy when she's already pregnant, there are really only 2 options for her:
a. stop the pregnancy
b. keep the pregnancy

Those two are mutually exclusive events with a probability sum equal to 1. She has to choose one to the exclusion of another. When a person clearly does not want (b), (a) is her only choice; there is no other choice. If she could not get (a), she would be stuck with (b), against her wish.

As a society, we really cannot justify forcing people to keep their pregnancies and keep their bodies in a certain shape in order to keep the bunch of cells growing *inside* their bodies. Pregnancy is such an intimate bodily function that it has to be a voluntary one, not just at the point of conception, but throughout the entire duration of the pregnancy.

The cells that are developing inside a person, literally, and consuming nutrients from their host, are not a person. A 25-year-old man is a person, a pregnant woman is a person, so is a 1-day-old baby; but a sperm cell is not a person, an egg cell is not a person, a zygote is not a person, neither is an embryo. As far as I'm concerned, a person does not live literally *inside* another person.