Bad Video Game Writing

zeello

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I think the traitor in Other M is neat and one of the high points of the story, I also find it rather commendable the game never reveals who it was, effectively making it a talking point for the ages. (and maybe a decade from now someone will figure out who it is) The worst part really is the fact the game goes ahead and gives the traitor a codename on our behalf. Yea, real classy.
 

CathyRina

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>How long until Gbatemp cannot resist mentioning FF XIII: 17 posts

Well done XrosBlader821
uhm your point is? Is using FF13 as a example on how to not do it taboo now or what?:ohnoes:


bad writing is bad writing if it doesn't fit the context.
What context? Do you even know what you are talking about? Are you sure? I think not.

"as much as they need to tell and show" Yes but can they have done it in less time? Or was the writer not competent enough to pull that off?
I'm not sure if I should take you serious at this point. If you wanna insult Kojima for creating scripts that other people couldn't have even dream of then go to DSPgaming on YouTube and join his anti Kojima clan and be one of those people who are laughed at on a daily basis by almost everyone who likes MGS. Seriously though, don't be one of those people.

Furthermore, if the story needed to tell you so many things and show you so many things, doesn't that make it a bad script?
Yes because having much to tell and show equals a bad script. totally. It does not mean that people actually put a lot of work into it. at all.

"how complex the plot and characters are" who says it needed to be that complex?
At this point I really don't take you serious anymore. It's metal gear. Of course it's going to be complex. That's what the series is known for and that's what fans love about the series. Unless we talk about Metal Gear rising that game is f*cking Hype.
Go play it it has fast pacing and short cutscenes and completely different gameplay and completely different everthing. :tpi:
And fans love it (they don't but I do)

"gameplay is slow placed" this point I hate the most. The game is already slow, so you make it even slower? If anything it might have been more logical to have fast paced cutscenes. Likewise if a game is fast paced then slow cutscenes would be an excellent addition since it would balance things out and give the player some cooldown time, and keep the actiony parts feeling fresh.

Have you actually ever played a Metal Gear Solid game? Are you sure? I think not.
You know these don't get an average of 92+ on metacritic for nothing. And usually the user reviews would look entirely different than legit review but ugh sorry. And don't come with "but it's so much over hyped" cause it's not. Compared to any Final Fantasy ever I don't hear people talking about these games from where ever I look.
Again, if you don't like it then its because you don't like it not because its bad.
 

Guild McCommunist

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I think the traitor in Other M is neat and one of the high points of the story, I also find it rather commendable the game never reveals who it was, effectively making it a talking point for the ages. (and maybe a decade from now someone will figure out who it is) The worst part really is the fact the game goes ahead and gives the traitor a codename on our behalf. Yea, real classy.


This is sarcastic right? You can't say that the "high point" of the story is a subplot that doesn't actually get concluded or have pay off. You have one boss fight against him in which he escapes and you only learn who he is through deductive reasoning. You don't know why he's doing it or what the purpose is for the story. It's completely unrelated. It's in fact a prime example of why Other M is a poorly written piece of shit.

There was also a good post by soulx that I'll just post here, credits to him:

With regards to the story, don't forget about that terrible exposition. This is all dialogue taken word for word from the game.

"I had been reliving the tragic moments of my recent past. Thanks to the Hyper Beam, which was given to me somehow by the baby, I laid Mother Brain to waste. And the explosion that followed destroyed Planet Zebes, along with the remains of Mother Brain, the Space Pirates, and my long-standing nemesis, Ridley. And the baby."

"Code name: Baby's Cry - a common SOS with the urgency of a baby crying. The nickname comes from the fact that the purpose of the signal is to draw attention. The signal was coming from a remote part of space. I altered the course of my ship as if this detour had already been part of my flight plan. Baby's Cry... it was as though it was crying specifically for me."

"The thumbs-up sign had been used by the Galactic Federation for ages. Me, I was known for giving the thumbs-down during briefing. I had my reasons, though. Commander Adam Malkovich was normally cool and not one to joke around, but he would end all of his mission briefings by saying, "Any objections, Lady?" He was joking, but others weren't. At the time I felt surrounded by people who treated me like a child or used kid gloves because I was a woman. And yet, with Adam, I was grateful for the nod. My past has left me with an uneasy soul, and as a result, it touched me on some level that Adam would acknowledge that past by calling something delicate, like "Lady." And I knew more than anyone that every word from Adam was deliberate. My thumbs-down was a twofold response: a sign of derision at being called a lady, and a signal of my complete understanding of the mission orders. "


I mean, holy fuck we get it.
 
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Gahars

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It can be hard to define bad writing because there's a wide range of reasons for why a game can be written poorly. Flat characters, cringeworthy dialogue, nonsensical plots, uninvolving narrative plot structure, painful prose, etc. etc. Sometimes there's too little writing, and then sometimes there's way, way too much. Shit, sometimes even the delivery can make otherwise decent writing seem awful.

In general, people say video games have poor writing because, well, they do, for the most part. For a while, plots were either nonexistent or extremely brief justifications for the action on screen ("The President's been kidnapped by ninjas! Are you bad enough dudes to save him?"). When developers tried to add stories to their games... well, developers aren't writers, and it showed. Even when professional writers were brought on board, many wrote games as if they were writing movies or television programs. We still get this; how many games have stories that seem utterly divorced from the gameplay?

Video game narratives remain stunted because there's no demand for great writing, for two reasons. First, many people just don't care, which is fine. Some games really don't need flowing narratives; sometimes, you just want to jump in and play. The second, and more damaging, cause is that people will rally around and praise awful writing. Take Bioshock Infinite, a confused mess of a story revolving around quantum mechanics written by a man who admits he doesn't understand quantum mechanics. In any other medium, the script would be laughed out of the room, and yet put it in game form and it's compared to Citizen Kane. This lowering of standards encourages and enables poor writing, and does nothing for the industry's reputation.

Another example is Bioware. They're a studio that's been lauded by many for having some of the best writers in the industry... and this is the writing they're turning out (none of that text has been altered). Imagine looking in from the outside and hearing that this is supposed to be some of the best video games have to offer; it's going to give you a pretty poor impression.

So this sort of became a rambling rant, but... video games' writing problems are far, far deeper than perception. People say video games have bad writing because a lot of video games do have bad writing. Some video games have good or great writing, too. If we want to change the perception of writing in video games, we need to promote these games and demand more from game narratives in general. We shouldn't lower our standards; we need to raise them. If developers are going to bother with a story, we should demand good stories, or, hell, just functional ones.
 

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I think the epitome of mostly technically sound but absolutely terrible writing in a videogame is Final Fantasy IX.

The only way IX is able to convey emotions is with ellipses.

Zidane...
Garnet...
Dagger...
Vivi...
Zidane...
Zidane...
Dagger...
Steiner...
Beatrix...

Seriously, I didn't notice it the first time I played but ffs it is absolutely awful when you start to pay attention. Plus, really, Final Fantasy IX's story is easily one of the most mangled and poorly arranged in a modern Final Fantasy with a proper translation. It's cliche after cliche, even for a Final Fantasy game, and over all very lazy in how it conveys just about anything.
 

Guild McCommunist

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I think the epitome of mostly technically sound but absolutely terrible writing in a videogame is Final Fantasy IX.

The only way IX is able to convey emotions is with ellipses.

Zidane...
Garnet...
Dagger...
Vivi...
Zidane...
Zidane...
Dagger...
Steiner...
Beatrix...

Seriously, I didn't notice it the first time I played but ffs it is absolutely awful when you start to pay attention. Plus, really, Final Fantasy IX's story is easily one of the most mangled and poorly arranged in a modern Final Fantasy with a proper translation. It's cliche after cliche, even for a Final Fantasy game, and over all very lazy in how it conveys just about anything.


To be fair there was no real voice acting and usually you'd express someone saying something "emotionally" with a pause... like an ellipses

The rest of the complaints can be valid though.
 

goober

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To be fair there was no real voice acting and usually you'd express someone saying something "emotionally" with a pause... like an ellipses

The rest of the complaints can be valid though.

Nope. Not buying it one bit. I mean, yes, games before voice acting used that method a lot at times, but IX takes the cake. Particularly for expressing that very specific emotion and that's what's so jarring. It's almost exclusively used in that game to only denote that general feeling and emotion.

VIII was pretty damn emo and even it doesn't abuse that method nearly as much as IX. It gets close, but again, not nearly as bad.
 

the_randomizer

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Nope. Not buying it one bit. I mean, yes, games before voice acting used that method a lot at times, but IX takes the cake. Particularly for expressing that very specific emotion and that's what's so jarring. It's almost exclusively used in that game to only denote that general feeling and emotion.

VIII was pretty damn emo and even it doesn't abuse that method nearly as much as IX. It gets close, but again, not nearly as bad.


Could have been worse. FFX had some outright horrendous emotion and is a prime example of how to NOT do voice acting in a game. The list of voice actors, the acting itself, is just pretty piss port. At least Final Fantasy IX had better pacing and more emotion.
 
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goober

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Could have been worse. FFX had some outright horrendous emotion and is a prime example of how to NOT do voice acting in a game. The list of voice actors, the acting itself, is just pretty piss port. At least Final Fantasy IX had better pacing and more emotion.

I actually didn't mind X so much. It wasn't THAT bad outside of a few scenes. My biggest problem was Yuna, which is basically the perfect personification of IX's ellipses. She's all ellipses, just like IX. Easily one of the most annoying and poorly written characters ever in the Final Fantasy universe. The concept was ok, but the implementation was terrible both in writing and voice acting.
 

the_randomizer

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I actually didn't mind X so much. It wasn't THAT bad outside of a few scenes. My biggest problem was Yuna, which is basically the perfect personification of IX's ellipses. She's all ellipses, just like IX. Easily one of the most annoying and poorly written characters ever in the Final Fantasy universe. The concept was ok, but the implementation was terrible both in writing and voice acting.

Ugh, I know, right? It didn't help her voice was so bloody soft-spoken and had no emotion whatsoever. Tidus was equally bad, forced laughter, always whining about Sin, or whining about why me kind of scenarios. The battle system and soundtrack helped make the game tolerable. Final Fantasy Vi however, is how to do FF right in my opinion.
 

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The worst translation I have ever read in a videogame was in "Champions World class Soccer" (SNES). "penalty shoot-out" is translated with "Elfmeterschießen" in german. "Schießen" means to shoot. In this game the penalty shoot-out is called "scheißen" which means "to shit".
 
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the_randomizer

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Final Fantasy Anthology: Final Fantasy V on the Playstation. What the hell happened to the translation?

Wyvern - Y Burn
Lenna - Reina
Farris had a pirate accent (not in JPN version)
An enemy called Steel Dress and Bald Money
Gilgamesh was called Gargamel

GBA version has the best translation, SFC version has the best audio quality.

It wasn't just a bad translation, it was horrid, and the game was just a jumbled mess. The GBA translation was far closer to the original script (and yes, I have beaten the Japanese version and understood the dialog). Breath of Fire 2 was also lol-worthy when released in the US.
 

Tom Bombadildo

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Been playing the Fallout series recently, had just finished 2 about a week ago and I'm now on 3 and holy shit is the dialogue in general terrible in this game. I never really noticed before, since I usually just fast-forward through the dialogue and the story stuff...but man is it bad. The story itself is ok, it could hold itself up well enough for Fallout, but then the dialogue is just some giant pile of shit that pushes the game straight to the ground. My main gripe is that the game just assumes whomever is playing is a fucking idiot, and the dialogue is either extremely obvious or is way too short and doesn't end up making any sense., not to mention a majority of the time they just throw 3 different lines you can use in a neutral/good/evil setup

"So yeah you wanna kill them Ghouls?"

"FUCK YOU I'LL KILL ALL OF THEM I DON'T CARE"
"YEAH! EXCELLENT! WONDERFUL! ANYTHING FOR THE SAFETY OF THE WORLD!"
"Sure."

10/10, best dialogue.
 
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zeello

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guys, I already stated that other m has terrible writing. That's actually the first thing I said in this thread regarding other m.
 

zeello

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:ohnoes:

What context? Do you even know what you are talking about? Are you sure? I think not.
By context I simply meant writing for a videogame as opposed to book or film/TV.

I'm not sure if I should take you serious at this point. If you wanna insult Kojima for creating scripts
"how dare you disrespect master kojima"
uh oh.. what have I gotten myself into

that other people couldn't have even dream of then go to DSPgaming on YouTube and join his anti Kojima clan and be one of those people who are laughed at on a daily basis by almost everyone who likes MGS.
so if I criticize something I will invoke the ire of people who like that thing?
whew I thought it would be something much worse

Seriously though, don't be one of those people.
if one of us is "one of those people " its you, mister metal gear solid story writing defense force

Yes because having much to tell and show equals a bad script. totally. It does not mean that people actually put a lot of work into it. at all.
because putting a lot of work into something automatically makes it good

You know these don't get an average of 92+ on metacritic for nothing.
Its called gamerankings

And usually the user reviews would look entirely different than legit review but ugh sorry. And don't come with "but it's so much over hyped" cause it's not. Compared to any Final Fantasy ever I don't hear people talking about these games from where ever I look.
You're so downtrodden by those mean ol' FF fans
MGS is the underdog

again, if you don't like it then its because you don't like it not because its bad.

all I did was say the writing is bad and I'm far from the first person to say this
 

CathyRina

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By context I simply meant writing for a videogame as opposed to book or film/TV.
so in other words MGS writing is bad because it tries to achieve level of writing seen in books or a film & TV.
Yeah you are right, let's reduce our standards just to keep actual crappy VG writing for ever instead trying for reaching better ones.

if one of us is "one of those people " its you, mister metal gear solid story writing defense force
I wouldn't sound like that if you would actually bring a legit argument for why MGS writing is bad. All you say is ridiculous stuff like "big script = bad", "complex deep characters = bad" which is complete nonsense.

Its called gamerankings
You mean gamerankings.com ? Where the games still have an average of 92% minus all the HD re-releases?

all I did was say the writing is bad and I'm far from the first person to say this
And I'm far from the first person to say that I like Other M. Does it mean its a objectively good game? No.
 

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