What's your general opinion of Christianity?

[FAST6191]

It appears we are now going for the agnosticism debate. This being some maintain that while gods may be hard to prove then the absence of them is equally hard to prove so one should not assert as such if being logical is your thing.
It is not an indefensible position, however I would maintain that if you carry on with the probability based approach to life (absolute certainty is hard to come by anywhere) then we can drop the lawyer's words approach to life. Else we end up with stuff like "Based on multiple longitudinal studies and historical data then a dose of between 500 and 1000 mg of acetylsalicylic acid will tend to cure cephalgia, colloquially known as a headache, however those with conditions such as haemophilia which one would be ill advised to take such a dose, multiple other substances will also be contraindicated for such things. Furthermore a headache may be a symptom of another conditions like strokes, tumours, partial occlusions, bleeding and trauma." when all that really needs to be said is "take an aspirin if you have a headache".


Oh and just before we get back into grammar/linguistics I should note god with capital G tends to be that of the Abrahamic faiths in English.

What is disrespectful about discussing that?

I'm pretty sure at some point in history, saying their gods name became forbidden. Things like Jehovah are ways around it.

But yes, that's the name I was referring to.

Forbidden for them maybe, why would we not want to discuss it though?

 

[JaapDaniels]

Mankind is responsible for the condition of the world we live in.

When someone states there is "NO GOD" its their burden of proof to validate that statement, otherwise say "I don't think there is a GOD" which diverts a factual statement to an opinion. You just don't get off the hook that easily by saying I don't have to prove it, not if your stating a fact.

partly yes... however, if there's god that planned our lives, he'd be responsible for supplies.
then there's that big hole in this story, how come we as man are responsible, i mean we only excist halfway of life in the history of this planet, yet you tell we're responsible for all?
no, we're responsible for our own enviroment yes, but human alone can't ever hold account for the whole planet.
that being said, we did make a mess in our envirement, and yes i'm aware it means action now.
if god created us, then he ultimately created what we later made, he should've known what was to come.
if you got a pet, you let hem be, but you keep close watch an it.
you'll check his food supply daily (unlike our god)
you check it's drinking supplu (unlike our god)
you make sure it can only access save enviroments for it to be in.
if you created something like structure, you make sure that it lasts right? you want it to be stable, proper built, and so on?
you'd repair it if it meant anything to you right?
well look at our god's care for it's creation!

• people are staving!
• war's all around us!
• there's no balance in jobs or payments!
• Pain is everywhere!
• there's not enough space to life for all humans on this planet, and we should take in account there are animals around us!
• children are dying!

you say we are responsible.. so the mass extinction of dinosaurs is man made you claim?
okay i'm with you on todays extinctions, the plastic soup, and even the weather of today, but how did we do the killing of dinosaurs?
if you claim for there being a god, in whatever form there is: again, where the fuck is your proof!
you're not really answering any questions made, but you are asking a lot of proof coming your way.

do look in yout math book for calculations about probabilities, do the equotation with a god vs there not being a god.
try to get as many variables in your equotation as possible, and you see...

math ain't perfect, specially in probabilities, but it's the best proof there is.

 

[eworm]

well look at our god's care for it's creation!

• people are staving!
• war's all around us!
• there's no balance in jobs or payments!
• Pain is everywhere!
• there's not enough space to life for all humans on this planet, and we should take in account there are animals around us!
• children are dying!

• we still live in caves, naked, and fear predatory animals at every turn
• we don't have a system of any kind that would prevent unjust abuse of people going unpunished, so it's every man for himself
  
• never figured out how to prevent or combat any disease, so indeed we're dying like flies left and right
• still know jack sh*t about the universe we live in and the ways it works, so we still can't, I dunno, predict the weather or mass-produce food faster
• can't traverse this sh*thole of a planet any faster than a brisk walk and don't get me started on flying or diving underwater

Here's more for ya, Mr I-look-only-at-the-bad-and-don't-understand-why-everything-is-so-bad.

 

[JaapDaniels]

• we still live in caves, naked, and fear predatory animals at every turn
• we don't have a system of any kind that would prevent unjust abuse of people going unpunished, so it's every man for himself
  
• never figured out how to prevent or combat any disease, so indeed we're dying like flies left and right
• still know jack sh*t about the universe we live in and the ways it works, so we still can't, I dunno, predict the weather or mass-produce food faster
• can't traverse this sh*thole of a planet any faster than a brisk walk and don't get me started on flying or diving underwater

Here's more for ya, Mr I-look-only-at-the-bad-and-don't-understand-why-everything-is-so-bad.

not looking at the bad, just telling it's not making sense there's a god we should follow.
i tried a long way to follow the idea of there being a god, to be precise, i was a christian from birth till i got 30.
there it got corrupted for the first time that i couldn't ignore the signs anymore.
a friend from church hang himself, he was my age...
found out he was struggling feeling gay attracted.
no one even listened to the problems occuring for him, not even his parents.
the church was clear, you could be gay, but you can't practise it.
well, start trying the same logic for yourself being heterosexual, you can be it but you can't practice it...
you love a person, but you can't tell, can never hold hads, can't kiss.
worse the person tells you he likes you the same way and you can't tell the truth...
ever thought of this? that's reallety for 5% of each church member.
later came the point of really checking history, half the battles of the bible left no bodies, no weapons nothing...
that's odd you know.
strugglin' with these things i began to check what was real and what was told to be real to me, and in fact there never been anything real about what i thought was gods work, it all was so much told to me that i forgot to question my doing towards the church (can't find the right words for it).
i thought i felt a presence around me, but i made the feeling myself...
sounds wierd right? ever thought you be in love with someone that you never seen in real life? it's fake and most likely you feel it when you meet.
i thought maybe it's just my church so i went in different religions to see if they got answers that would stand my questions...
islam failed about the same way, other christian churges failed...
they all had the same flaw, the rules were man made, en when you start to question them it breaks or you, or your relligion.
seeing the hard world around me now without god doesn't make it more beautifull, but it made more sence.
if god is responcible we don't have to face problems is told to us, so we really want it...
truth is, even if there is a god, it's either death or ignoring our problems for since the beginning of time.
it didn't leave any help of telling us how to find him, just left us to die slowely...

Sorry i know it hurts to hear your life is a lie, but it is a lie, no way around it..
the russian astronaut was right, he travelled beyond our planet but found no proof of any god.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

Forbidden for them maybe, why would we not want to discuss it though?

I mean, I'm fine w/ discussing it, just considered it might not be wise to possibly incite some flames by doing it (since for some reason, some religious people seem to take great offense at people that aren't them comitting what they view as sins).

 

[FAST6191]

I mean, I'm fine w/ discussing it, just considered it might not be wise to possibly incite some flames by doing it (since for some reason, some religious people seem to take great offense at people that aren't them comitting what they view as sins).

If I allow such people to dictate what I can and can't discuss, or, worse still, invite any and all*, then I might as well not have bothered. Better yet most religions seem to be concerned with the purpose and such of the universe and somehow they can't have little old me discussing it?

*I am sure we have both seen the endless amounts of things dubbed offensive to Islam that people cook up, or worse consider an argument, and the fun and games that ensues from that.

Certain actions towards individuals might be beyond the bounds of good taste but the sorts of things under discussion here... nah.

 

[Ev1l0rd]

If I allow such people to dictate what I can and can't discuss, or, worse still, invite any and all*, then I might as well not have bothered. Better yet most religions seem to be concerned with the purpose and such of the universe and somehow they can't have little old me discussing it?

*I am sure we have both seen the endless amounts of things dubbed offensive to Islam that people cook up, or worse consider an argument, and the fun and games that ensues from that.

Certain actions towards individuals might be beyond the bounds of good taste but the sorts of things under discussion here... nah.

Flaming, Trolling & Harassment

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This was my reasoning for not bringing it up/saying it directly, wasn't sure if it'd violate the rules.

 

[Ratatattat]

This was my reasoning for not bringing it up/saying it directly, wasn't sure if it'd violate the rules.

Funny this all started with a statement that there is "NO GOD". I asked that person to prove that since, they were stating a fact which is factual only if supported by truth.
They couldn't, so it turned into me claiming there was a GOD (which I never did). This is why these discussions hold no water.

 

[kumikochan]

I'm not religious at all but there's one belief that i like the most and proves why God is so unjust and cruel if there really was a god like told so in the bible. It is the belief that Lucifer actually succeeded in taking down God from his throne and banished him to earth while claiming to everyone that he truly was God and that the banished one was the real Devil. Because no one actually saw God of the Angels everybody believed Lucifer him claiming to be God and that the so called fake Lucifer tried to take him down but did not succeed. So Lucifier is god and the devil himself is the real god, it is a good explanation why god seems to be so cruel while the Devil seems not to be and that the picture of the Devil being bad is the picture painted by Lucifer himself but it is actually God being banished trying to help humans out and one day taking his throne back. I like that story atleast a lot more and it also makes a lot more sense if i was religious wich again i am not

 

[Ratatattat]

I'm not religious at all but there's one belief that i like the most and proves why God is so unjust and cruel if there really was a god like told so in the bible. It is the belief that Lucifer actually succeeded in taking down God from his throne and banished him to earth while claiming to everyone that he truly was God and that the banished one was the real Devil. Because no one actually saw God of the Angels everybody believed Lucifer him claiming to be God and that the so called fake Lucifer tried to take him down but did not succeed. So Lucifier is god and the devil himself is the real god, it is a good explanation why god seems to be so cruel while the Devil seems not to be and that the picture of the Devil being bad is the picture painted by Lucifer himself but it is actually God being banished trying to help humans out and one day taking his throne back. I like that story atleast a lot more and it also makes a lot more sense if i was religious wich again i am not

I'm not gonna tell you what your missing you'll have to figure that out for yourself. But I will leave you with a clue. All religious based documents were written by men or women based upon their knowledge and communication abilities of the time.

 

[kumikochan]

I'm not gonna tell you what your missing you'll have to figure that out for yourself. But I will leave you with a clue. All religious based documents were written by men or women based upon their knowledge and communication abilities of the time.

Like i already said, i am not religious so i don't believe any of those stories it being the bible or the story i just said or stories from the quran. I just find it the most interesting story, that's all

 

[Deleted User]

I'm not religious at all but there's one belief that i like the most and proves why God is so unjust and cruel if there really was a god like told so in the bible. It is the belief that Lucifer actually succeeded in taking down God from his throne and banished him to earth while claiming to everyone that he truly was God and that the banished one was the real Devil. Because no one actually saw God of the Angels everybody believed Lucifer him claiming to be God and that the so called fake Lucifer tried to take him down but did not succeed. So Lucifier is god and the devil himself is the real god, it is a good explanation why god seems to be so cruel while the Devil seems not to be and that the picture of the Devil being bad is the picture painted by Lucifer himself but it is actually God being banished trying to help humans out and one day taking his throne back. I like that story atleast a lot more and it also makes a lot more sense if i was religious wich again i am not

That's... Actually an interesting and well thought out theory. Props to you, sir.

 

[eworm]

i tried a long way to follow the idea of there being a god, to be precise, i was a christian from birth till i got 30.
there it got corrupted for the first time that i couldn't ignore the signs anymore.
a friend from church hang himself, he was my age...
found out he was struggling feeling gay attracted.
no one even listened to the problems occuring for him, not even his parents.
the church was clear, you could be gay, but you can't practise it.
well, start trying the same logic for yourself being heterosexual, you can be it but you can't practice it...
you love a person, but you can't tell, can never hold hads, can't kiss.
worse the person tells you he likes you the same way and you can't tell the truth...
ever thought of this? that's reallety for 5% of each church member.

I'm not married. I indeed can't "practice my heterosexuality". So I don't. The priests are in the same boat, except they can't even marry to lift that "ban". Also, think for a moment what it says about you (and so, so many people nowadays) when you consider "not being able to have sex" as one of the worst things that can happen to you, something that takes away your life's meaning. Way to use "some people are forbidden to have sex" argument alongside "wars", "starvation" and "dying children" (which probably doesn't include the ones who are killed via abortion, right, f*ck those ones).

Don't treat all homosexuals as victims just because you feel it helps your argument to be on the side of "the oppressed". There are many homosexual Christians who follow Christ willingly, who deny acting out their sin and thank God every day that He gives them the strength to do so. It is still inconclusive whether all cases of homosexuality can't be "straightened", but even if that's the case, you are not speaking for any group and neither am I. We can't even speak for any one person besides ourselves. The "group" mentality is a fallacy in itself. What does certain individuals being gay, or black, or rich or Democrats or whatever have to do with these individuals' beliefs and opinions? And it has even less to do with the actual question of "is God factual".

I'm sorry about your friend, but not only is it a fallacy (anecdotal evidence in a case concerning literally everything), but it doesn't even follow that if some people who call themselves Christians act in wrong, non-Christian ways ergo God doesn't exist. That's like saying you forgot to buy your cat food on your trip for groceries, therefore, your cat isn't real or doesn't ever eat food. Or like saying there are bad atheists, therefore atheism makes you bad.

If there are bad Christians, it is not the answer to leave Christianity. The answer is to be the good Christian and to actually talk about the apparent glaring differences in interpretation, maybe help others and yourself to grow. Or should I assume that if a big enough group was being hateful assholes and justifying it somehow with "God doesn't exist", you would leave atheism too?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

I'm not religious at all but there's one belief that i like the most and proves why God is so unjust and cruel if there really was a god like told so in the bible. It is the belief that Lucifer actually succeeded in taking down God from his throne and banished him to earth while claiming to everyone that he truly was God and that the banished one was the real Devil. Because no one actually saw God of the Angels everybody believed Lucifer him claiming to be God and that the so called fake Lucifer tried to take him down but did not succeed. So Lucifier is god and the devil himself is the real god, it is a good explanation why god seems to be so cruel while the Devil seems not to be and that the picture of the Devil being bad is the picture painted by Lucifer himself but it is actually God being banished trying to help humans out and one day taking his throne back. I like that story atleast a lot more and it also makes a lot more sense if i was religious wich again i am not

You do realise Lucifer "taking down" God is less likely than a single-cell organism "ending" the universe, right?

 

[FAST6191]

I'm not married. I indeed can't "practice my heterosexuality". So I don't. The priests are in the same boat, except they can't even marry to lift that "ban". Also, think for a moment what it says about you (and so, so many people nowadays) when you consider "not being able to have sex" as one of the worst things that can happen to you, something that takes away your life's meaning. Way to use "some people are forbidden to have sex" argument alongside "wars", "starvation" and "dying children" (which probably doesn't include the ones who are killed via abortion, right, f*ck those ones).

Don't treat all homosexuals as victims just because you feel it helps your argument to be on the side of "the oppressed". There are many homosexual Christians who follow Christ willingly, who deny acting out their sin and thank God every day that He gives them the strength to do so. It is still inconclusive whether all cases of homosexuality can't be "straightened", but even if that's the case, you are not speaking for any group and neither am I. We can't even speak for any one person besides ourselves. The "group" mentality is a fallacy in itself. What does certain individuals being gay, or black, or rich or Democrats or whatever have to do with these individuals' beliefs and opinions? And it has even less to do with the actual question of "is God factual".

I'm sorry about your friend, but not only is it a fallacy (anecdotal evidence in a case concerning literally everything), but it doesn't even follow that if some people who call themselves Christians act in wrong, non-Christian ways ergo God doesn't exist. That's like saying you forgot to buy your cat food on your trip for groceries, therefore, your cat isn't real or doesn't ever eat food. Or like saying there are bad atheists, therefore atheism makes you bad.

If there are bad Christians, it is not the answer to leave Christianity. The answer is to be the good Christian and to actually talk about the apparent glaring differences in interpretation, maybe help others and yourself to grow. Or should I assume that if a big enough group was being hateful assholes and justifying it somehow with "God doesn't exist", you would leave atheism too?

I am no fan of the "no sex before marriage" stuff either -- it can lead to a lot of poor choices. Even without that though you can presumably see a path to a life with someone, probably even within the next few years. Priest wise... of those variations that do such nonsense then what about all those little choir boys? Similarly you also have the added bonus that you can tell yourself it is a symbol of your dedicate to said god.

Denial of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... telling gay people they are wrong and their no more harmful than things we deem perfectly acceptable and common and will be punished by eternal hellfire (and eternal means eternal) and thus can never have a relationship their body is telling them is so very right. Do you want to try that one again?

I would agree simply not getting laid for a while is no great shake and often thing the kids like to imagine a far greater issue than it is. This is not that and if you want to talk about fallacies and failures in argumentation then maybe false equivalence is a good one to start with.

Even if one could reliably "straighten" people out then why would we want to?

Abortion is a different matter entirely. We had a whole debate https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-abortion.501574/ if you want that. Personally I would say they were not dead children any more than using a condom kills them.

 

[PanTheFaun]

I am no fan of the "no sex before marriage" stuff either -- it can lead to a lot of poor choices. Even without that though you can presumably see a path to a life with someone, probably even within the next few years. Priest wise... of those variations that do such nonsense then what about all those little choir boys? Similarly you also have the added bonus that you can tell yourself it is a symbol of your dedicate to said god.

Denial of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... telling gay people they are wrong and their no more harmful than things we deem perfectly acceptable and common and will be punished by eternal hellfire (and eternal means eternal) and thus can never have a relationship their body is telling them is so very right. Do you want to try that one again?

I would agree simply not getting laid for a while is no great shake and often thing the kids like to imagine a far greater issue than it is. This is not that and if you want to talk about fallacies and failures in argumentation then maybe false equivalence is a good one to start with.

Even if one could reliably "straighten" people out then why would we want to?

Abortion is a different matter entirely. We had a whole debate https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-abortion.501574/ if you want that. Personally I would say they were not dead children any more than using a condom kills them.

I agreed with you for the most apart until you got to the abortion but. I fully disagree with you because I believe that to be incorrect.

 

[FAST6191]

I agreed with you for the most apart until you got to the abortion but. I fully disagree with you because I believe that to be incorrect.

OK. I am not entirely sure what I am supposed to do with that. I guess I could try to draw out some of your logic and reasons here (though I would say go to that thread rather than send this one any more off topic), if you want mine I did baseline logic and a few edge cases and hypotheticals in that thread.

 

[PanTheFaun]

OK. I am not entirely sure what I am supposed to do with that. I guess I could try to draw out some of your logic and reasons here (though I would say go to that thread rather than send this one any more off topic), if you want mine I did baseline logic and a few edge cases and hypotheticals in that thread.

It's all good. I'm not in the mood to debate or anything like that. I just thought I would mention my opinion, I guess? Haha.

 

[eworm]

Denial of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... telling gay people they are wrong and their no more harmful than things we deem perfectly acceptable and common and will be punished by eternal hellfire (and eternal means eternal) and thus can never have a relationship their body is telling them is so very right. Do you want to try that one again?

Body telling you something is right means jack. When I'm angry my body will tell me smashing someone's face in might be good. Rapists do what their bodies tell them is so right. I'm not saying all pleasure is wrong, all that's physical is sinful. Of course not, our bodies have the same inventor as our souls and they were designed as beyond amazing. But "listening" to them? I'd rather have my body rather than have my body have me, thank you.

Also, there is nothing about denying life or liberty or happiness in Christianity. Abortion is not life, hedonism is not liberty and pleasure is not happiness. Meanwhile sex is not "putting a thing in a thing for some rush", it's a life-creating act in which love joins two people into one body, sharing themselves with each other more than is otherwise possible, and sanctity joins childish fun without either losing anything of itself. If you think Christians believe sex to be sinful, think again, we have a much higher view of it than atheists. Of course you don't see any sense in installing an alarm system in a run-down shack - but we see a majestic temple full of riches instead.

Even if one could reliably "straighten" people out then why would we want to?

To avoid the denial of life (babies come from heterosexual couples) for one thing. To allow the pursuit of happiness as realised via creating a healthy marriage and family. God is One in Three Persons and humans, unless designated otherwise by God, are at their happiest and most realised as a part of a family unit. Even biologically we're wired very much for that purpose. There's a reason children brought up by same-sex couples are much more likely to have psychological and social issues, be more susceptible to depression and such. It's unnatural. Under a guise of "fixing", we've broken the working thing instead of addressing the actual problem.

Abortion is a different matter entirely. We had a whole debate https://gbatemp.net/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-abortion.501574/ if you want that. Personally I would say they were not dead children any more than using a condom kills them.

Using a condom prevents conception. There's no life there. But conception creates a unique genetic code. It's not that of the father, it's not that of the mother. It won't change or grow with the development, it's the same 1 millisecond after conception as it will be 100 years after. That is the only biological threshold at which we can safely define the beginning of human life. Ending a human life is killing. Murder is killing with intent and abortion is intentional. It's a simple matter.

 

[JaapDaniels]

I'm not married. I indeed can't "practice my heterosexuality". So I don't. The priests are in the same boat, except they can't even marry to lift that "ban". Also, think for a moment what it says about you (and so, so many people nowadays) when you consider "not being able to have sex" as one of the worst things that can happen to you, something that takes away your life's meaning. Way to use "some people are forbidden to have sex" argument alongside "wars", "starvation" and "dying children" (which probably doesn't include the ones who are killed via abortion, right, f*ck those ones).

Don't treat all homosexuals as victims just because you feel it helps your argument to be on the side of "the oppressed". There are many homosexual Christians who follow Christ willingly, who deny acting out their sin and thank God every day that He gives them the strength to do so. It is still inconclusive whether all cases of homosexuality can't be "straightened", but even if that's the case, you are not speaking for any group and neither am I. We can't even speak for any one person besides ourselves. The "group" mentality is a fallacy in itself. What does certain individuals being gay, or black, or rich or Democrats or whatever have to do with these individuals' beliefs and opinions? And it has even less to do with the actual question of "is God factual".

I'm sorry about your friend, but not only is it a fallacy (anecdotal evidence in a case concerning literally everything), but it doesn't even follow that if some people who call themselves Christians act in wrong, non-Christian ways ergo God doesn't exist. That's like saying you forgot to buy your cat food on your trip for groceries, therefore, your cat isn't real or doesn't ever eat food. Or like saying there are bad atheists, therefore atheism makes you bad.

If there are bad Christians, it is not the answer to leave Christianity. The answer is to be the good Christian and to actually talk about the apparent glaring differences in interpretation, maybe help others and yourself to grow. Or should I assume that if a big enough group was being hateful assholes and justifying it somehow with "God doesn't exist", you would leave atheism too?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


You do realise Lucifer "taking down" God is less likely than a single-cell organism "ending" the universe, right?

right, you don't have to get married to join the adult thing, so... for your knowledge, most priest are lying about not having any sexual activity.
that being said yes there are those who have no moral objection against being lonely or just not sexual active...
still doesn't give the right to take that freedom away from someone.
you tell me there are christians who're gay, and you're right, but i doubt it really free will.
free will is when it comes from a person self, without any sugestions being made for him or her.
no hetero will ever out of free will give up hetero sexuality, what proof do you have gay do?
i mean any non religious getting straight camp seen ever?
yes i've seen such camps, and i spoke some.
and no i won't tell them thier lying cause it's thier life...
not being able to connect with your inner self is worse then anything.
it's not just one case it's litterely all around me now i got out of church surroundings.
i was blind for the destruction of religious thinking when i was young.
but hell it distroyed much lives, lives that meant the world to me.
and it's still taking lives around me i care for...
lives going to waste just because of a myth...
the wasted lives and i'm just 34 now that i can trace back to religion, wasted lives of people i really spoke in life with, seen at thier homes.
i counted alredy 10 now, just because they never got the chance to discover a free life, a life without rules except that it's not right to take what's not meant to be yours.
1 girl got raped for helping building a christian school in nigeria (muslims around wanted to stop it for they were scared for the religion.
3 girls i know got molested/ abused and can't ever really talk about it without getting in a firestorm of hate...
2 girls i know are blamed themself for getting abused for they seemed asking for it the father from the church dared saying.
1 guy my age killed himself for he couldn't ever be himself with his parents and friends.
at least 3 girls i know are forced into mariage. not even my worst anemy should have such a life.

but it's allright, cause these all are collateral damage for believing a book over real life.

sorry it hurts to see the price each day.

 

[eworm]

right, you don't have to get married to join the adult thing, so... for your knowledge, most priest are lying about not having any sexual activity.

Yes, let's assume that most of what we hear from people are lies. That's not gonna cause any problems in our society or even our personal lives. But of course you didn't mean that. You're probably lying about not believing in God. I mean, it's guilty until proven innocent, right?

Secondly, I'm not talking for anyone. I said so before. My argument isn't "all priests are celibate" - my argument is "all Catholic priests are supposed to be celibate and that's not a bad thing". Another is "it is best only to have sex with your spouse". You haven't addressed either thing here.

that being said yes there are those who have no moral objection against being lonely or just not sexual active...
still doesn't give the right to take that freedom away from someone.

Oh crap, I knew our priests weren't sneaky enough about installing those mind-control chips in literally everyone, you saw them, huh. You are so right, we are totally taking away people's freedom to have sex by... believing ourselves that it's best not to? Geez, you're so concerned what we think that it's literally controlling your choices and actions, does it? You should probably think for yourself more. And speaking of...

you tell me there are christians who're gay, and you're right, but i doubt it really free will.
free will is when it comes from a person self, without any sugestions being made for him or her.

HAHAHA!! Holy sh*t, are you kidding me?
"Hey, Joe, wanna grab some ice-cream?"
"AAH, MY FREE WILL!"
Dude, every thought comes from somewhere, every option we consider we consider because of some suggestion. I saw this thread's title on the right side of the screen. I clicked it - probably not of my own free will, since all I could do at that point is freely consider clicking it or not and then do whatever I wanted. Do you obey the traffic laws? Congratulations, you have no free will apparently. Oh, but wait, you probably drive the car the way you were taught to. You haven't had free will for quite a... Oh, sorry. You only walk and speak because everyone around you when you were a little baby did so. Way to go with the crowd, sheep, how un-free of you.
Sorry, defining "suggestions" as in any way contrary to "free will" is just too dumb.

no hetero will ever out of free will give up hetero sexuality, what proof do you have gay do?

Clearly you haven't heard about all those "coming-outs" among celebrities. Boosts your popularity like woah, people talk about you again and you even get to be a victim of some horrible things, which nowadays means you're right in everything you say for some reason. I wouldn't be so sure there's not a single hetero star who only "came out" for another five minutes in the spotlight.
But to be fair I'm not gonna claim that's impossible. Unlike your "priests are lying" thing, I ain't judging without a reason to. I just have my doubts is all, that's a popularity-based brutal business, sink or swim, people do desperate things in showbiz to get a single article about them float to the online surface for a moment.

But that's all a digression, sorry. Outside of stories from homosexuals who wish to change, who wish to be able to properly marry, have children, create a healthy family and yes, avoid the temptations they seem as wrong - I have no proof there's any such a homosexual out there. You got me, champ, right from that "being gay is never considered a problem by gay people" bubble of yours.

not being able to connect with your inner self is worse then anything.

Wow, we actually agree there. Of course I think that homosexuality is the "connection disruptor", while you think it is the "inner self"... But still, common ground to start out from. We found it after all.

i was blind for the destruction of religious thinking when i was young.
but hell it distroyed much lives, lives that meant the world to me.
and it's still taking lives around me i care for...
lives going to waste just because of a myth...
the wasted lives and i'm just 34 now that i can trace back to religion, wasted lives of people i really spoke in life with, seen at thier homes.
i counted alredy 10 now, just because they never got the chance to discover a free life, a life without rules except that it's not right to take what's not meant to be yours.

I do not see how any of these tragedies were caused by Christianity. And before you label me as an unreasonable, heartless bastard (if you haven't already), consider the following:

1 girl got raped for helping building a christian school in nigeria (muslims around wanted to stop it for they were scared for the religion.

if you want to build a school for poor, uneducated people, that's a noble thing to do. The fact it was a Christian school was because the girl, I assume, believed that it was best to also teach about Christ. the wrongdoers in this case were the rapists, Muslims as you admitted (prepare to be banned for islamophobia, you don't get to state "hateful facts" like that any more) - and they were the enemies of Christianity. Like you, not that I'd ever believe you'd act the same way. So yes, it was their religion that motivated a horrible act (never said I argued all religions are good, I hope you realise that much). It was Christianity that motivated a good one. I hope you're not saying "be a good person unless it's risky"?

3 girls i know got molested/ abused and can't ever really talk about it without getting in a firestorm of hate...

Can't even see where anything religious comes into play here. Right now we're seeing many cases where it's the men who can't defend themselves against women's accusations, including false ones, without getting into a firestorm of hate. But again, you haven't addressed what role religion played in those cases? All I'm gonna say is whoever is a part of that "firestorm of hate" (assuming it is hate) is not Christian.

2 girls i know are blamed themself for getting abused for they seemed asking for it the father from the church dared saying.

I'm not sure I understand. You mean they got abused by the clergyman or were they abused because they questioned what he was saying? Either way isn't okay and either way isn't Christian. Every reason you give for refusing Christianity is because someone called something that isn't Christianity "Christianity" and you didn't like that thing. Would you hate cats if you were attacked by a dog in early childhood and told that was a cat?

1 guy my age killed himself for he couldn't ever be himself with his parents and friends.

Well, okay, bad parents and bad friends are a staple of Christianity and Christianity exclusively. So is depression and self-doubt and all other psychological problems. Is there any doubt that Christianity is being supported and founded by the rich psychiatrists corporations?

at least 3 girls i know are forced into mariage. not even my worst anemy should have such a life.

Okay, that surely isn't Christians you're talking about. Sounds more like Islam to me. Either way, another anecdotal evidence that proves "people can be assholes" rather than "religion makes people assholes". And you don't have to prove people can be assholes, that's a well-known fact. That's why we have standards by which to judge others' and our own actions and choices, so that we avoid becoming total assholes beyond redemption. Standards like the Judeo-Christian ones that the Western civilisation is based on?

sorry it hurts to see the price each day.

I have no doubt it does. I don't know how much control you have in these situations, but guess what actual Christianity - as opposed to what you've called Christianity - would recommend? Being the person who stands with the victim in that firestorm of hate. Being the friend that homosexual self-doubting person can openly talk to. Cheering people up, supporting them - not all their actions, not all their beliefs and not all their choices - but people. I hope you'll find some real Christians eventually. Or that you notice them if they're already around.

EDIT: Okay, just realised that sounded like I equate "real Christians" with "good people" or even claim the latter are most common in the former group. Not what I meant. in fact, the best Christian will be the first one to reject being called "a good Christian". By "real Christians" I meant not good people, but people who believe in Christianity - not just believe that they believe in Christianity. True belief will inevitably manifest itself in actions - not without effort and not without many failures. But it will be visible. It's like a difference between "fan" and "fanboy". One really loves a game/show/etc - the other just loves loving it.