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Why should I invest into cryptocurrencies?

tabzer

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I think the future is headed towards DeFi currencies; namely Chainlink.
I don't trust Bitcoin and other centralized currencies; there are also some allegations claiming that BTC is owned by China and that people are trying to hide that fact. So I think Bitcoin might be designed to fall at times when the media convinces everyone to buy it.
DeFi altcoins are better.

Real estate is definitely not as good to trade with because of all the people this year who couldn't pay rent.
If that's the case, it seems like you can buy it when the media talks bad about it, and then sell when they talk good about it. While it's true that China is the place where the majority of mining occurs, I don't think it is in their interest to turn it into a net negative or to make BTC's protocol to look compromising. See my previous response to notimp.

DeFi is another high risk/high reward situation. It's blown up sooo much recently, I personally think there's going to be some down tim, reconsilidation. Bitcoin, altcoins and Defi will probably alternate bear/bull markets, and with gaps of "nothing great" in between. My hunch is that Bitcoin and altcoins will trade trends before Defi enters the picture again. Defi is just another PoS situation.
 

notimp

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The problem with your analysis on PoW vs PoS regarding dominance of the network overlooks a key component. The perceived decentralization of a network is considered a strength. People get wary and confidence is lost when any actor or pool approaches %51. This applies for any cryptocurrency, but PoS is definitely harder to verify. %51 is not a goal for anybody, other than those who want to push an upgrade/change into the system.
That crossed my mind as a positive for PoW, compared to PoS. Then came the realization, that with GPU mining not being viable anymore, comes the centralization anyhow. (Respectively, it came with BTC, at least 'regionally'.)

But then centralization (lets say 10 major stakeholders) would not lead to the 51% attack (colluding), with 'raising perceived worth' in mind. At least for a while. (Depends if the end goal is currency, or value storage. If it is value storage... Probably depends on investment size (how easy is it to get 51% to collude for 'potentially only one hit' (risk of being found out)).

Lets say issue with PoW is low transactions per second - and we accept that PoS is a solution. With PoS race to 'max pool size' is on from the first second, after that you generate more pools. I dont know how max pool size prevents cannibalization of small players - if at all (many pools with growth cap also should have a cumulative effect (?)), but if thats your layout - just skip the step and announce 'your 25 biggest players' on day one. Honestly.

I dont buy into 'but if the risk of loss of trust is too high' pools will have to split, because thats just a perception play. So use strawmen and continue. Outcome is the same. edit: You might have to link them in 'public interest networks' or something after that to get the size based effects again. But since you can change protocol, you'll find a way to pressure out smaller stakeholders over time. Probably.


edit:

Hmm... interesting:
Our results based on simulated paths of the dynamics of nodes' coins at stake suggest that decentralization of PoS blockchains can be largely maintained with moderate constant or dynamically adjusted coin inflation while decreasing inflation yields a large loss in active staking nodes over time when coin prices are static.
src; https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3293694

Oh - how good that the Facebook Coin is a stablecoin, then.. ;)
 
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tabzer

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Oh - how good that the Facebook Coin is a stablecoin, then.. ;)

Why do we need more stablecoins?

Lets say issue with PoW is low transactions per second - and we accept that PoS is a solution. With PoS race to 'max pool size' is on from the first second, after that you generate more pools. I dont know how max pool size prevents cannibalization of small players - if at all (many pools with growth cap also should have a cumulative effect (?)), but if thats your layout - just skip the step and announce 'your 25 biggest players' on day one. Honestly.

That's a lot of conjecture showing you haven't even given it serious consideration. You frame it as a competition. Why? Cannibalism? Can you give one situation where cannibalism occurs in Tezos?

As I stated before:

As for Libra? I don't really see what it offers for people in the way you are pitching it. How is it so different from rewards programs, and mileage programs, other than just connecting different companies on the same program?

Please answer.
 

notimp

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Why do we need more stablecoins?
Stablecoins are what you'd 'need' to conquer the international money transfer space and optimally profit. (You try to make people forget, that they are holding deposits in funny money, which gives you more time to speculate with their assets). But the comment was ironic - since facebook coin is not PoS based (in the traditional sense - they dont create currency through mining).

Why would people cannibalize each other? Because with PoS the more you invest the higher your gains. (The game is to grow fast, earlier, than others.) They do it as rational actors. If you cap them to a max pool size and stop the size effects (?) investment already taken helps you in creating additional pools. If size effects ('the richer you are the more likely you are to make money') are somehow disabled by pool size caps, you do it for power. (The higher percentage of verifications you get - the more important your voice becomes on 'protocol changes').

Normal miners dont 'scale' as well (as people investing big early), you are telling big players 'keep at it' you can become 'number one' even past 51%, - in theory, to prevent them from mounting attacks against the integrity of the network (because they can still grow). So they are still 'motivated and enthused' to get bigger.

At the same time lets say at some point demand for validation for transactions per second stabilizes. Small miners get less and less returns (as the bigger invested guys have been growing faster), turn their machines off - and the 'active network of validations becomes smaller'. This then is 'cannibalization'.

Can you give one situation where cannibalism occurs in Tezos?
I can't. I dont look at specific coin models/setups, because If I'd do, I'd go crazy. ;) You would need the 'best protocol' coming out 'first' because of market competition. Currently you still see bitcoin dominating the market (value and transaction wise). Which means the entire 'market' for cryptocurrencies is more or less still an incubator - where the best idea certainly doesnt win. But the right angel investor can bet on a certain currency, to raise its perceived importance, and thereby value.

And everybody tries to get the highest investment into their currency, to grow (perception wise), to also grow in worth. You can have the best idea, and nobody noticing or backing.

Thats why I asked if PoS was mainly a play to attract big investors early, which would make sense in such an environment.

I cant get into 'but with Tezos, that doesnt occur', because I'm not that interested overall. I dont try to design my life around knowing 'which is the most promising solution' at any point, from multiple stakeholders perspectives.
 
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tabzer

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Stablecoins are what you'd 'need' to conquer the international money transfer space and optimally profit. (You try to make people forget, that they are holding deposits in funny money, which gives you more time to speculate with their assets). But the comment was ironic - since facebook coin is not PoS based (in the traditional sense - they dont create currency through mining).

The comment is not ironic. The comment appreciates that there are already stablecoins, and does not recognize the appeal for a new one.

Why would people cannibalize each other? Because with PoS the more you invest the higher your gains. (The game is to grow fast, earlier, than others.) They do it as rational actors. If you cap them to a max pool size and stop the size effects (?) investment already taken helps you in creating additional pools. If size effects ('the richer you are the more likely you are to make money') are somehow disabled by pool size caps, you do it for power. (The higher percentage of verifications you get - the more important your voice becomes on 'protocol changes').

You have not given an explanation of how cannibalism occurs with PoS.

Normal miners dont 'scale' as well (as people investing big early), you are telling big players 'keep at it' you can become 'number one' even past 51%, - in theory, to prevent them from mounting attacks against the integrity of the network (because they can still grow). So they are still 'motivated and enthused' to get bigger.

There is no incentive to become "Number 1." If maximum wealth is the objective, then the incentive is to get as much as you can without hitting the radar.

At the same time lets say at some point demand for validation for transactions per second stabilizes. Small miners get less and less returns (as the bigger invested guys have been growing faster), turn their machines off - and the 'active network of validations becomes smaller'. This then is 'cannibalization'.

Small miners in a PoW setup get less of the wealth for two reasons. First, there are more being added to the network. Second, hardware is going through upgrades in efficiency. So miners have to upgrade to stay competitive. In PoS, these issues are non-existent.

As for Libra? I don't really see what it offers for people in the way you are pitching it. How is it so different from rewards programs, and mileage programs, other than just connecting different companies on the same program?

I dont try to design my life around knowing 'which is the most promising solution' at any point, from multiple stakeholders perspectives.

But you will present yourself as appearing to have thoroughly thought-out on Bitcoin and Libra.

You should research tether. (Stable-coin). Supposedly it is "backed by the US dollar", but who knows because there is never a real audit.

Libra will be worse than that. They don't back it up with anything (just clout?). So far, there is not a demonstrated incentive to use it. Maybe what, save %10 on Macy's hair conditioner when purchasing with Libra? Everybody loses.

Let's say I really want the hair conditioner. Buy just enough libra, purchase hair conditioner, then I'm out. Unless they are guaranteeing stable interest rates that are are higher than what banks offer, and stapled to the USD, then sure. There's potential there. But FB as a bank, that can censor how you use your money? I'm sure that will become an issue very quickly, drawing even more appeal to BTC.
 
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notimp

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The comment is not ironic. The comment appreciates that there are already stablecoins, and does not recognize the appeal for a new one.
Appeal for a new stablecoin under PoS is everyone wants to have their own transaction network. :) (Everyone wants to have that 'power' (as in every country wants their own currency).) If thats not acknowledging appeal... :)

Apart from that - the model (PoS) doesnt tell you about general appeal (market conditions, supply and demand, ...)

They are not connected. So when I'm saying "why dont you do it like Facebooks coin" I'm not doing it to promote Facebook, or confront you with feelings that 'there only can be one' - I'm trying to challenge assumptions, for why a certain model is better than another.

If people like two models - then two can exist.

I've already said, that I dont believe that in the cryptocurrency world, the 'best' model wins. With PoS, the model that can draw in the biggest amount of angel investment early - becomes more important.
There is no incentive to become "Number 1." If maximum wealth is the objective, then the incentive is to get as much as you can without hitting the radar.
And by what information would the rational actor decide that? 'How people are 'feeling' about the currency?'.

Oh - people are not feeling good about USD right now, I better not print it anymore?

The inefficiencies in that 'communication system' are enough to destroy the currency, gradually - or before anyone notices. I talk about this as 'only a perception issue'. Meaning, any significant action that impacts it - is probably marketing related. Therefore most of the actions you are getting are marketing. Even if the 'regulating instance' would tell me 'split up - stop acquiring wealth' my first idea of adhering to that would be to fake it out ('here' I've given it to five of my relatives - perception problem solved? (might not tell, that I've given it to five relatives == reduce transparency)).

Also - the question - seriously - is, if you even care about peoples perception on decentralization. Because if everything else 'works' and value rises (f.e. because more people use it for value transfer, or as value storage), who the f*ck cares about the neckbeards droping out vs. the big players.

All you are showing is, that you are stuck to a myth - where that would seem like a big problem - when in reality, everyone with PoS is trying to prove that it is not. :)

I tend to see 'small miners' as PR victims. So just something you can put on your spec sheets to tell people how decentralized you are - when in reality (on verifications) - you are not.

This also is the game on paying people above market value exchange rates to bitcoin (vs dollar value). You subsidize the stupid, so you can say you are big and diversified. This isnt sustainable. But who cares, as long as your currency gets a big break at some point.

All you need is stupid people you feed with explanations like
Tezos is a decentralized, open-source blockchain network that can execute peer-to-peer transactions and serve as a platform for deploying smart contracts. The native cryptocurrency for the Tezos blockchain is the tez or tezzie, which has the symbol XTZ.
.
They bring you engagement. They become your evangelists. All the wile they are working for rates that you fixed (you are paying them, you are spending money) to get your currency model to grow.
 
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tabzer

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Appeal for a new stablecoin under PoS

Stablecoins are not PoS. I neve suggested that there was an appeal for one. Is that what you are suggesting?

I tend to see 'small miners' as PR victims. So just something you can put on your spec sheets to tell people how decentralized you are - when in reality (on verifications) - you are not.

This also is the game on paying people above market value exchange rates to bitcoin (vs dollar value). You subsidize the stupid, so you can say you are big and diversified. This isnt sustainable. But who cares, as long as your currency gets a big break at some point.

You are conflating PoS issues with PoW issues. PoS doesn't suffer cannibalization. PoW is pretty clearly a hardware optimization game. Mining pools (PoW) have historically had issue with approaching a %51 situation, where confidence was falling as was the value. The remedy was to draw attention to the fact, and the miners reorganized. Sure, 3-4 major pools could still sabotage the protocol if they acted in concert. But why?
 

notimp

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Stablecoins are not PoS. I neve suggested that there was an appeal for one. Is that what you are suggesting?
I've merely made a joke about Facebooks 'stablecoin' model lending it self to centralization of 'transaction signing and protocol writing power'. which is a tautology. Because facebooks model is centralized to begin with. But the centralizing aspect - imho - _is_ 'the new cool'. (With a little PR that you also have some gigworkers pressing on virtual buttons, not knowing what they are doing, but that they are earning below minimum wage for it - and going out - convincing others, that this snowball model is the next big thing, to inncrase overall currency value..)

PoS is leading to centralization of those factors. This is independent of what facebook coin is or does.

You are conflating PoS issues with PoW issues. PoS doesn't suffer cannibalization. PoW is pretty clearly a hardware optimization game. Mining pools (PoW) have historically had issue with approaching a %51 situation, where confidence was falling as was the value. The remedy was to draw attention to the fact, and the miners reorganized. Sure, 3-4 major pools could still sabotage the protocol if they acted in concert. But why?
PoS is leaving all doors open to cannibalization. The issue identified was not that 'one actor could reach 51%' signing capability, but that - at that point it would be identified more beneficial for them to 'sign and authorize fake transactions, to cash in the fees (while also generating more currency, but that is less important at that stage (algorihm is deflationary - less currency mining based gains)) - at the very moment, they identify the currency as 'not growing (enough) anymore'. (Better to game the system, than to adhere to its rules).


PoS simply sidestepped that by saying you have full competitiveness past 51% (theoretically, dont know if the currencies decided on that in practice), just keep in the competitive model - believing in you gaining more market share over time. To ensure that, we ensure 'big number advantage' (who owns more - gains more).

"And then miners decided to rearrange pools, to "fix" the decision power issue, to ensure everyone, that no one would be at risk of betting against the currency (signing fake transactions)." imho is a story.
It might have been what happened once - but it only happens if people still believe in a growing market (gaining more money by staying in the game, rather than betting against it). And the 'proof' that that happend isnt 'bitcoin'.

Its a marketing agency convincing most of the players or future customers (/investors), that growth is still possible.
 
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notimp

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European union plans on the e-Euro (CBDC):

Cross post - better suited in here:

EZB Report on a digital euro:
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/pub/pdf/other/Report_on_a_digital_euro~4d7268b458.en.pdf

edit:
This report examines the issuance of a central bank digital currency (CBDC) – the digital euro – from the perspective of the Eurosystem. Such a digital euro would be a central bank liability offered in digital form for use by citizens and businesses for their retail payments. It would complement the current offering of cash and wholesale central bank deposits.
Split the money base.
A possible role for the digital euro as a tool to strengthen monetary policy is not identified in this report, but could emerge in the future on the basis of further analysis or owing to developments in the international financial system.
PR first?
The Eurosystem would design the digital euro in such a way as to avoid possible undesirable implications for the fulfilment of its mandate, for the financial industry and for the broader economy. Some digital euro design options could affect the intermediation function of banks and their funding costs, especially in situations of stress. Furthermore, some potential configurations of a digital euro could lead to an Report on a digital euro 4 expansion of the size of the Eurosystem’s balance sheet and increase its exposure to shocks and could give rise to challenges in international financial markets related to larger capital flows. However, the analysis in this report indicates that by following appropriate strategies in the design of the digital euro the Eurosystem can address these challenges.
Commercial banks and large scale investors are safe - we promise.
Also promises of not inflating the money pool ("state investments into peoples abilities to purchase retail") (with negative interest you get the desired effects).
Most users and investors are also concerned that emerging private payment solutions (especially if unregulated) could entail cyber risks.
The boogey man can!
In the case of a digital euro, such risks might be mitigated by the involvement of the central bank. Finally, the issuance of a digital euro could stimulate the supply of new payment services and functionalities and create business opportunities, although it could also generate new sources of risk.
You know, the commercial banking sector really had too few business opportunities in the past...
Scenario 4: if the Eurosystem were to conclude in the future that the issuance of a digital euro is necessary or beneficial from a monetary policy perspective. For example, the introduction of a CBDC might reinforce the transmission of monetary policy by allowing the central bank to set the remuneration rate on the digital euro in order to directly influence the consumption and investment choices of the non-financial sector, although the strength of this mechanism is not clear cut18 (the effect of the digital euro on monetary policy is examined in more depth in Section 3).
Bingo.

edit Footnote 18:
18 A CBDC could help to eliminate the effective lower bound on policy rates, and thereby widen the policy options available in crisis situations, if cash were to disappear. This may be considered particularly important in view of the decline in the neutral real rate (== cumulative interest). However, to the extent that cash remains available in the economy, this objective becomes less relevant. See Lalouette, L. and Esselink, H., “Trends and developments in the use of euro cash over the past ten years”, Economic Bulletin, Issue 6, ECB, 2018.

Bingo 2:
Requirement 4 (R4): monetary policy option. If considered to be a tool for improving the transmission of monetary policy, the digital euro should be remunerated at interest rate(s) that the central bank can modify over time.19
Footnote 19:
19 There may be other reasons to remunerate the digital euro at a variable rate, namely financial stability reasons and to prevent the central bank becoming a large-scale financial intermediary if the digital euro becomes a large-scale store of value.
Yeah we dont want it to be a value store option, do we.. ;)
• The excessive use of the digital euro as a form of investment and the associated risk of sudden large shifts from bank deposits to the digital euro should be avoided. The digital euro should be available via supervised intermediaries, while IT project risks (for example, project delays or unexpected costs) should be minimised. The Eurosystem should aim at complying with regulatory standards even when exempted, unless it is clearly in the public interest not to do so.
Split the money base.


Effects on the banking sector, monetary policy and financial stability

The introduction of a digital euro could affect the transmission of monetary policy and have a negative impact on financial stability, for example by challenging banks’ intermediation capacity and by affecting risk-free interest rates. Depending on its characteristics as a form of investment, it might induce depositors to transform their commercial bank deposits into central bank liabilities. This might increase the funding costs of banks and, as a consequence, interest rates on bank loans, potentially curtailing the volume of bank credit to the economy. Banks could react to this trend in different ways. One possibility would be to try to stabilise deposits by increasing their remuneration or by bundling them with additional services (for example, payment services, mortgages, etc.). Second – unless the central bank increases its outright holdings of securities, thus increasing the supply of liquidity on a permanent basis – banks could replace lost deposit funding with central bank borrowing, provided that they have adequate collateral (in terms of both quality and quantity). This would imply an increase in demand for collateral, which might ultimately have an impact on market interest rates for safe assets; moreover, the central bank would expand its role in the economy and its risk exposure. Finally, to the extent that the central bank increases its outright holdings of securities, banks could still try to substitute deposit funding with more expensive capital market-based funding. Substantial demand for digital euro may also have a negative impact on financial stability, given the key role of the banking sector in financial intermediation. Were this demand to increase their funding costs, banks might have to deleverage and decrease the supply of credit, thus preventing an optimal level of aggregate investment and consumption. If this process ultimately implies higher costs for borrowers, economic activity could be hampered. Moreover, if their traditional business model is compromised, banks may decide to take on greater risks in an attempt to earn higher (nominal) returns and to offset the reduction in profitability.32 Additionally, if banks decrease their role in deposit-taking and intervene less in the routing of payment instructions, they might have less information about clients, which, in turn, would harm their risk assessment capacity. This may increase the riskiness of banks’ balance sheets, with negative effects on financial stability. Furthermore, investors may substitute safe assets (for example, sovereign bonds) with the digital euro, which would directly affect risk-free interest rates and indirectly affect other risk classes.33 In crisis situations, when savers have less confidence in the whole banking sector, liquid assets might be shifted very rapidly from commercial bank deposits to the digital euro if the operational obstacles to withdrawing money in the form of digital euro are lower than for withdrawing cash. This could increase the likelihood and severity of bank runs, weakening financial stability. These examples highlight that the design of the digital euro needs to be carefully assessed, taking into account its implications for such important issues as monetary policy transmission and financial stability. Consideration should be given, inter alia, to whether a digital euro should be accessible by households and firms directly or indirectly through intermediaries, whether it would be remunerated, and whether digital euro holdings of individual users should be limited or unlimited. For instance, the central bank might mitigate potential effects on the banking sector, financial stability and the transmission of monetary policy by remunerating digital euro holdings at a variable rate over time,34 possibly using a tiered remuneration system, or by limiting the quantity of digital euro that users can hold and/or transact.
Footnote 34:
34 A non-interest-bearing or positive interest-bearing digital euro is more likely to induce large-scale substitution away from deposits in a negative interest rate environment. While banknotes already offer a non-interest-bearing alternative to deposits, storage and insurance costs mean that deposit rates can be below zero without triggering large-scale substitution into cash. Holding digital euro would likely entail lower costs than holding banknotes, implying that large-scale substitution into non-interest-bearing or positive interest-bearing digital euro would be more likely – at any given negative rate on deposits – compared with substitution into banknotes.
Oh, what could we do - what could we possibly do??!?

Next paragraph:
Given the risks for monetary policy transmission and financial stability, it is not desirable for the digital euro to attract very large investment inflows. However, if individual holdings of digital euro were too low, either because of rigid constraints or because of disincentives applied above a relatively low threshold, then the digital euro would be less attractive as a means of payment and less competitive than alternative instruments.35 To address the aforementioned risks, the central bank should design the digital euro in line with the following requirement:

Requirement 8 (R8): ability to control the amount of digital euro in circulation.
The digital euro should be an attractive means of payment, but should be designed so as to avoid its use as a form of investment and the associated risk of large shifts from private money (for example bank deposits) to digital euro.
BINGO! :)

edit: Oh, and its green!
Although the central bank would not aim at expanding its intermediation role, this possibility cannot be ruled out. In this case it could be forced to invest more in illiquid assets, ultimately taking on more credit and market risk. As profitability is not, per se, a policy objective of the Eurosystem, these considerations would have no immediate implications for the design of a digital euro. A central bank issuing a CBDC should nonetheless strengthen its risk management.

edit: This gets better by the minute:
Requirement 13 (R13): conditional use by non-euro area residents. The design of the digital euro should include specific conditions for access and use by non-euro area residents, to ensure that it does not contribute to excessively volatile capital flows or exchange rates. Such conditions could take the form, for instance, of limits on or adequate remuneration policies for the holdings of digital euro of non-euro area residents.


Better by the minute:

Oh now - we might have to eliminate privacy - because we cant allow to much investment money to cross over. :)

Privacy requirements Users’ privacy can be protected to various degrees, depending on the preferred balance between individual rights and public interest. Means of payments in current use already provide varying degrees of privacy, ranging from anonymous cash transactions to transactions requiring documentary verification or monitoring via bank accounts.46 If the legal identity of digital euro users were not verified when they access services, any ensuing transaction would be essentially anonymous.47 While that is currently the case for banknotes and coins, regulations do not allow anonymity in electronic payments and the digital euro must in principle comply with such regulations (Requirement 10). Anonymity may have to be ruled out, not only because of legal obligations related to money laundering and terrorist financing, but also in order to limit the scope of users of the digital euro when necessary – for example to exclude some non-euro area users and prevent excessive capital flows (Requirement 13) or to avoid excessive use of the digital euro as a form of investment (Requirement 8).


edit: Oh wow! You can even keep petty crime, we only want negative interest. :)
If users are identified when they first access digital euro services, different degrees of privacy can still be granted by both the issuer (the Eurosystem) and the providers of intermediary services. Full privacy would be typical of offline digital euro payments, in line with Scenario 2 (a decline in the use of cash), even when users have been identified by the provider(s) of digital euro services beforehand. Indeed, the absence of a data connection with a third party implies that sharing transaction data is not necessary for payment settlement.

edit:
One option to be investigated would be to allow users to hold digital euro only up to an individual threshold at any given time. To ensure that a user can always receive a payment in digital euro and no information is disclosed on current individual holdings, a “waterfall” approach would be possible whereby any incoming digital euro in excess of the holding limit would be shifted automatically to the payee’s account in private money. However, this would require all payees to hold such an account.49
Dont worry, our next monetary policy only concerns your "overflow income". ;)

Demand for a digital euro could also be controlled through incentive schemes under which less attractive interest rates or service fees are applied when individual holdings exceed the aforementioned threshold.
Be creative with negative interest rates to increase compliance. :)

It does not seem feasible, under current circumstances, to offer unlimited holdings of digital euro to corporate entities at zero interest rates. In line with the current monetary policy stance of the ECB, the nominal remuneration rate of risk-free euro investments (for example AAA-rated government bonds with a short residual maturity) achievable by corporate entities and domestic and international investors is currently below -0.5%. Unconstrained access of these entities to a digital euro could not be offered currently at more attractive rates without disrupting financial flows and the monetary policy stance.
Lets start at -0.5%. ;)

edit: In case a more 'anonymous' private payment option is needed (classified as cash use declines), you might have two models of the digital euro. One based on a balance sheet ('bank account') held by the ECB, and one based on 'distributed ledger' - both holding 'e-Euro'. In the second case, you would be loosing ECB liability in the instances of loss of device, or fraud.

Most of daily e-Euro transfers in 'offline mode' (without privacy loss) could even be ensured, by "hardware security modules" on "registered devices".
An electronic payment that is not confirmed online – either through the network of users or in a central register – can still be considered final by relying on “trusted hardware” modules. Offline functionality avoids the sharing of transaction details with parties other than the payer and payee, enabling the digital euro to become a complement to cash (Scenario 2) and providing a back-up payment solution that is available in extreme situations (Scenario 5).53 These modules are increasingly available to potential digital euro users in the form of smart cards, mobile devices and payment terminals. The payment could be settled immediately as a transfer of pre-funded units between the devices of payer and payee. Payment devices could be pre-funded with an amount of digital euro deducted from the balance that a user has online before they are used offline. The trusted device would contain the current balance and adjust it upon payment by the user. On the side of the payee, usually equipped with a terminal, the transfer would be recorded with the necessary information to prove that the transfer was indeed finalised.
Bye by people owning their phones (rooting them).

edit:
However, the remuneration applied to a digital euro stored offline could not be changed by the central bank over time since it would not be possible to communicate with the device (Scenario 4). Moreover, a digital euro that is only usable offline would be unlikely to support new advanced functionalities such as conditional payments (Scenario 1). An offline digital euro would need to exist online at some point, in order to allow users to load money onto the offline digital euro wallet through the broader payment system; hence, any offline digital euro should also be linked to an online form of digital euro.54

edit: Also interesting:
As already mentioned, remuneration could be tiered, with different interest rates applied in different cases. This would, for example, allow the Eurosystem to pay less attractive interest rates on large holdings of digital euro or on holdings by foreign investors in order to discourage excessive use of the digital euro as an investment or to mitigate the risk of attracting huge international investment flows.

edit: Remuneration of digital offline money (cash equivalent), although technically difficult - might not be out of the question;
It could be argued that the non-remuneration of banknotes creates unintended effects, as the opportunity cost of holding banknotes varies with central bank and market interest rates. From this perspective, it would seem natural to overcome this constraint once technology allows the central bank to remunerate its money. However, designing a digital euro that is available offline would face additional challenges if it was remunerated.
---


edit: According to an 'educated opinion' on part of a member of the Konrad Adenauer Stiftung - at least for a potential implementation the possibility to issue 'negative interest rates' on different parts of the money pool will be played down. Also there are different possible implementations concerning overcoming a concept called zero lower bound.

Basically, the notion, that if you raise negative interest it in general, people will flee into cash. The less cash is used, the lower the likelyhood of that problem occurring. The expert told the interviewer, that because of the zero lower interest bound negative interest rates as a monetary policy means would not be likely. There are some people working on scenarios to overcome it. Also there is significant 'opportunity cost' for trading digital currency into cash - so I doubt that the effect would instantly manifest itself in reality.

src: h**ps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08guZbfhW14 (german)
 
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tabzer

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Buy Kin. Though I like Tezos better, Kin is in its recovering reputation phase and may just get a lot of good leverage on the coming shitcoin rally.
 

tabzer

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I do!

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/kin/

Bitcoin is bitcoin and shitcoins are all other crypto. Kin is pretty close to the lowest price of all time. It was a project spearheaded by Kik. It hit its lowest because of a SEC lawsuit determining it to be a securities offering. They settled with a fine about a couple months ago, which releases them from being in SEC's crosshairs and have recovered only a little since then. They have been working on scalability by "migrating" their crytpo to more capable blockchains. I figure that if you want to invest in crypto, it's the lowest risk/greatest reward pairing.
 

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Political apathy is the interest, so it is at odds with any government trying to limit its legal use. But then again, some political alignments might boost its appeal, even if temporarily. Like, Biden's for example. Trump has always spoken against bitcoin, but I figure that's lip-service in his fight for the American dollar. I don't think he's actually taken any steps to try to stop bitcoin.

finished reputation management? I'm not sure if that's just poor framing. IMO, the worst for KIN has already happened, and it plans on sticking around--which translates to appreciation.

I'll mark it for later. Now KIN is worth 0.000037
 

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You crack me up. :)

Some of the goldbug conspiracy platforms (with FUD tendencies) also used gamification to bind their clientel, and make them spokespeople for the cause. Beats paying them minimum wage.

Sure you are not stuck in one of these schemes? ;)
 

tabzer

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Nah. I've been playing with it and speculating since early 2012. I want to be the master of my own universe, so I am strongly against selling my representation (or pledging an allegiance).

TBH, this is the first time I really made any recommendations. I never wanted people to suffer because of my advice. Now it's getting to the point where people will suffer anyway, and my advice would be better than that.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

One point I forgot to mention, is that when Bitcoin finishes rallies, it is usually transitioned into shitcoin rallies. They are hit or miss, but usually the ones that are "undervalued" are the ones that do crazy shit, making something like KIN to be the "unsuspecting" target. Might be Ripple or XLM again, but they are too close to Bitcoin IMO.
 
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iuraf

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They are a risky market, but if you know what you are doing, you can make profits. I would suggest to firstly invest in something more light, like a stable bank. But the most important thing is to learn how to stop spending money. I've found about this https://www.juststartinvesting.com/how-to-stop-spending-money and let me tell you that I've shifted my perspective regarding money. Investments are always a good thing, but you should be very wise with your money
 
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