About today’s Florida shooting

[Xzi]

I'm just talking about schools here. There are efforts to control the black markets for guns but criminals are always finding other ways. This whole arguement is pointless because the "what ifs" people keep bringing up. There is no perfect way to keep guns away from people willing to use them but if we just try and give schools some good security and then work out the kinks from there then we could flesh it out.

All you're doing is introducing more problematic variables, though. Yeah, a trained officer might be carrying the gun, but even a trained officer can be surprised and have his gun taken from him. The psychological effects on students is another discussion, but I don't think they're generally positive effects. These are just a couple of the reasons a lot of schools would prefer to not be forced to arm themselves. Schools also don't exist inside a vacuum; if public schools are forced to arm themselves that will affect other businesses and the decisions they make as well. I'd rather not skip ahead to the dystopian police state quite yet.

 

[Deleted User]

You're attached to the "gun". You refuse to see the big picture. Even if it didn't exist, other weapons do.

What do you mean? I just showed you both the non gun and gun death tolls. What is the big picture?

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

It's not good security if they let a teenager with a gun kill 17 other students.

It wasn't good security in practice, that's the problem with "good security" in general. If you add too much of it you restrict the school, and if you have a reasonable degree like Stoneman does you can't know for certain it'll be up to the challenge. Good security in general isn't the solution, we need comprehensive mental health reform and ways to restrict these kids' access to guns.

All 3 of those are easier said than done, that's why you do all 3 and hope one of them sticks.

 

[Kioku]

What do you mean? I just showed you both the non gun and gun death tolls. What is the big picture?

We've been fighting each other for much, MUCH longer than firearms have been around. The worst part is that we DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS WOULD BE IF GUNS DIDN'T EXIST. You can throw numbers around all day. It doesn't change what I'm saying. If someone wants to kill? They WILL. Even ONE DEATH will be enough for them.

 

[Flame]

So do bombs... And torches... And vehicles... We can go on all day. My point still stands.

do all Americans have the skills to make a bomb. torches.... the fuck. vehicles is a tricky one. but gun is still a million times more easy to kill then with a vehicle.

but vehicles have soo much advantages other then to kill a human being. like take one person from A to B

guns have one point one point only to kill.

 

[Kioku]

do all Americans have the skills to make a bomb. torches.... the fuck. vehicles is a tricky one. but gun is still a million times more easy to kill then with a vehicle.

but vehicles have soo much advantages other then to kill a human being. like take one person from A to B

guns have one point one point only to kill.

I don't know, one could rack up high double digits with a nice truck. Just saying.

Tranquilizer guns and water guns say hi. ;p

 

[TotalInsanity4]

The worst part is that we DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS WOULD BE IF GUNS DIDN'T EXIST.

I know one way to find out

vehicles is a tricky one.

Vehicles are regulated. We know who owns which one, and the person driving has to pass a competency test to get their license.

 

[Flame]

I don't know, one could rack up high double digits with a nice truck. Just saying.

the only people who use trucks are terrorist. you need that super fucked up mind set to run over people with a vehicle.

 

[Kioku]

I know one way to find out

Vehicles are regulated. We know who owns which one, and the person driving has to pass a competency test to get their license.

Alter reality?

 

[Navonod]

You're attached to the "gun". You refuse to see the big picture. Even if it didn't exist, other weapons do.

We should stop replying to comments like this. Otherwise we're going in circles and I'm literally dizzy.

All you're doing is introducing more problematic variables, though. Yeah, a trained officer might be carrying the gun, but even a trained officer can be surprised and have his gun taken from him. The psychological effects on students is another discussion, but I don't think they're generally positive effects. These are just a couple of the reasons a lot of schools would prefer to not be forced to arm themselves. Schools also don't exist inside a vacuum; if public schools are forced to arm themselves that will affect other businesses and the decisions they make as well. I'd rather not skip ahead to the dystopian police state quite yet.

PROPERLY TRAINED What part of that do I have to explain? I work security, I have to be full alert and know every little thing that goes on around me. Now I'm not armed security I haven't taken the classes for it yet but still I know somewhat of what I'm talking about. I'm trained to investigate, make my presents known, alternate my routine through the night, not make friends with those around you, and look impressive. It's not 100% perfect but it works most of the time. For the off chance I am caught by surprise, I try to make sure I'm on camera just encase.

 

[CMDreamer]

Just to let them know I'm here, and that they're on my toughts and prayings... I've got family all over US, hope they're OK.

I've got my opinion on the matter, but will keep it for myself...

God bless you all...

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

Just to let them know I'm here, and that they're on my toughts and prayings... I've got family all over US, hope they're OK.

I've got my opinion on the matter, but will keep it for myself...

God bless you all...

God bless you too

 

[Kioku]

We should stop replying to comments like this. Otherwise we're going in circles and I'm literally dizzy.

PROPERLY TRAINED What part of that do I have to explain? I work security, I have to be full alert and know every little thing that goes on around me. Now I'm not armed security I haven't taken the classes for it yet but still I know somewhat of what I'm talking about. I'm trained to investigate, make my presents known, alternate my routine through the night, not make friends with those around you, and look impressive. It's not 100% perfect but it works most of the time. For the off chance I am caught by surprise, I try to make sure I'm on camera just encase.

I'm only here because I can actually vent. I've hit the point where it's whatever anymore.

 

[Xzi]

The availability of guns anywhere in the US is unmatched by any other country. This definitely has an effect on the shooting statistics. I wouldn't say it is the biggest culprit, though. That's American culture. We're blissfully ignorant of how inherently violent we can be. We've been a rowdy bunch of assholes ever since we said "fuck yo tea" and launched the Revolutionary War. The problem is lack of self-awareness and willpower to overcome our baser selves.

PROPERLY TRAINED What part of that do I have to explain? I work security, I have to be full alert and know every little thing that goes on around me. Now I'm not armed security I haven't taken the classes for it yet but still I know somewhat of what I'm talking about. I'm trained to investigate, make my presents known, alternate my routine through the night, not make friends with those around you, and look impressive. It's not 100% perfect but it works most of the time. For the off chance I am caught by surprise, I try to make sure I'm on camera just encase.

Yeah I've worked security, but schools are a different beast entirely. You'd be lucky to have one officer for every 300-500 students. A lot can go wrong.

 

[Deleted User]

We've been fighting each other for much, MUCH longer than firearms have been around. The worst part is that we DON'T KNOW WHAT THE NUMBERS WOULD BE IF GUNS DIDN'T EXIST. You can throw numbers around all day. It doesn't change what I'm saying. If someone wants to kill? They WILL. Even ONE DEATH will be enough for them.

Hmm... well, decreased death rate would be nice right?

From a Stanford Study:
A Stanford Law School professor, John Donohue, and his team analyzed crime data from 1977 to 2014 and didn’t find evidence that areas where more Americans carry guns enjoy enhanced public safety or less crime. On the contrary, the researchers discovered that states that have enacted so-called right-to-carry (RTC) concealed handgun laws have experienced higher rates of violent crime than states that did not adopt those laws.

From Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence‘s 2013 Study, more gun restrictions accounted for lower deaths.


In conclusion, gun deaths account for the most deaths. If we proposed getting rid of the gun entirely, like I’m assuming you’re suggesting, I’m guessing that it would be still harder to kill as many people. Also, states without guns see less violent crimes - so maybe knives wouldn’t be as destructive as guns in this “proposed instance”

Although I know that I cannot change your mind, I’m glad we’re discussing this - maybe we can both learn a thing or two

 

[Kioku]

The availability of guns anywhere in the US is unmatched by any other country. This definitely has an effect on the shooting statistics. I wouldn't say it is the biggest culprit, though. That's American culture. We're blissfully ignorant of how inherently violent we can be. We've been a rowdy bunch of assholes ever since we said "fuck yo tea" and launched the Revolutionary War. The problem is lack of self-awareness and willpower to overcome our baser selves.


Yeah I've worked security, but schools are a different beast entirely. You'd be lucky to have one officer for every 300-500 students. A lot can go wrong.

... But I love tea! Damn taxes... Wait what year is it?

 

[Navonod]

The kid was able walk into a school with a AK 15 not easy to hide. If security/police were present that wouldn't have a happened.

It's way to late to "get rid of guns" because of people willing to smuggle and sell them.

 

[ThisIsDaAccount]

The kid was able walk into a school with a AK 15 not easy to hide. If security/police were present that wouldn't have a happened.

They were present. I used to live nearby, they're there every day. Still happened.

You can never know for sure if your security is solid till its too late.

 

[Xzi]

The kid was able walk into a school with a AK 15 not easy to hide. If security/police were present that wouldn't have a happened.

There's no way to know what would have happened. Assuming he already had his weapon drawn, security might not have been quick enough to keep from getting shot. Or a bunch of kids get shot in the shootout between the gunman and security anyway.

When a building is on fire, you don't try to put it out with gasoline. That's essentially what you're attempting when you fight deadly force with deadly force. Chances are that nobody "wins" in that situation.

 

[Navonod]

They were present. I used to live nearby, they're there every day. Still happened.

You can never know for sure if your security is solid till its too late.

I thought you said that they had good security? Also I commented on good security a few pages ago. Stop going in circles. It's getting us no where.