About today’s Florida shooting

[WeedZ]

Or that abortion should be illegal
Or that transgendered individuals shouldn't be able to use the bathroom of their own gender because some might be paeophiles

Woah woah. It's not that some trans might be pedos. It's that there are definitely pedos in the world and all they'd have to do is dress in drag to get into a girls bathroom. One person's freedom ends where it imposes on someone else's. When the freedom to privacy for my daughter is imposed on, sorry bout ya.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Woah woah. It's not that some trans might be pedos. It's that there are definitely pedos in the world and all they'd have to do is dress in drag to get into a girls bathroom. One person's freedom ends where it imposes on someone else's. When the freedom to privacy for my daughter is imposed on, sorry bout ya.

Oh boy, I didn't want to get into this topic here, but... two questions: what's stopping pedophiles from just waltzing into the wrong gendered bathroom anyway? A sign???? Pedophiles are criminals already, a placard isn't going to stop them from just walking in
And what would denying trans people from using the correct bathroom do about pedophiles that prey on children of the same gender?

ACTUALLY, make that three: there is a HUGE social stigma to overcome by being transgender, to the point where many are beaten and murdered with alarming frequency. Do you really think that a pedophile would pretend to be in that group just to beat it off to kids a couple times before they get caught? Especially considering there's virtually no documented case of that ever happening?

 

[WeedZ]

Oh boy, I didn't want to get into this topic here, but... two questions: what's stopping pedophiles from just waltzing into the wrong gendered bathroom anyway? A sign???? Pedophiles are criminals already, a placard isn't going to stop them from just walking in
And what would denying trans people from using the correct bathroom do about pedophiles that prey on children of the same gender?

ACTUALLY, make that three: there is a HUGE social stigma to overcome by being transgender, to the point where many are beaten and murdered with alarming frequency. Do you really think that a pedophile would pretend to be in that group just to beat it off to kids a couple times before they get caught? Especially considering there's virtually no documented case of that ever happening?

Yeah, this isn't really the place, but I'll respond to your questions.

1 when we see someone walking into the wrong bathroom people become alerted. It's not the norm. It gains attention. Most trans people are visibly trans. So there's the social alertness

2 it won't do anything about pedos that target the same gender.

3 there's no documented case because there's only rare places that allow trans to use alternate bathrooms. As to the first part, I used to work for Walmart in highschool where some stuff went down. You'd be surprised what pedos would do. I could share some fucked up stories.

I think if there's anymore debate we should make another thread.

 

[hobbledehoy899]

He isn't crazy and knew exactly what he was doing. It was premeditated.

You think crazy people can't think?

 

[CallmeBerto]

So the gun thing has been on mind for years. While taking away guns would solve the issue it is not possible unless there is a no bs massive massive killing with over 1000+ people.

The main problem is 2 fold; A. Convincing the average American to give up their guns. I mean whenever there is even a talk about guns laws being changed...gun sales go up by a lot. People have a strong attachment to the 2nd amendment.

B. We have A LOT of guns I mean a fuck ton. I just don't see how the hell we can remove them all. Other countries have done buy back but they weren't as attached to their guns like we were. Even if you made it mandatory not going to happen.

Also NRA pays off the politicians a lot. The only solution I see is taking away the second amendment (good luck) and increase how difficult it is to get guns.
Then again illegal guns are soooo easy to come by sooooo.

I honestly don't see how their can be a solution until we can convince the average American that we have a problem + dealing with all the guns we already have.

 

[OctolingRift]

Just don't give mental people guns and arm teachers. Literally all school shootings would be for nothing if that were the case.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Just don't give mental people guns and arm teachers. Literally all school shootings would be for nothing if that were the case.

I've asked this so many fucking times and no one's graced me with an answer; what happens when either
a) staff go off the wall and shoot up a school with their school-issued gun, or
b) staff try to take down a would-be shooter and instead escalate the situation, and/or kids get in the crossfire

 

[Navonod]

You think crazy people can't think?

It's adorable how some people think I'm dumb.

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Just don't give mental people guns and arm teachers. Literally all school shootings would be for nothing if that were the case.

I've said this like 20 times maybe on this forum. Don't even try. They can't come up with a better solution so they keep coming up with "what ifs".

 

[Kioku]

It's adorable how some people think I'm dumb.

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I've said this like 20 times maybe on this forum. Don't even try. They can't come up with a better solution so they keep coming up with "what ifs".

The reason I've stayed out of this thread after last night is because of the collective thought process here.

 

[Navonod]

The reason I've stayed out of this thread after last night is because of the collective thought process here.

Same. I just put this on unwatch so I wont be replying here anymore. lol

 

[TotalInsanity4]

]I've said this like 20 times maybe on this forum. Don't even try. They can't come up with a better solution so they keep coming up with "what ifs".

For fucks sake we've spent 20 pages telling you the better solutions, you're just not listening

 

[spinal_cord]

Just imagine if Staff had guns. Less people would've died.

Nope, The fact that USA has a mass shooting EVERY 3 DAYS, means that no matter how many people have guns, mass shootings still happen.

Let's talk about the staff member that jumped in front of students to take shots from the school shooter. If he had a gun, it would've ended right there. I don't get why you're against Staff being properly trained when we have so many school shootings.

Or maybe it wouldn't have. I wouldn't trust a teacher to be fully trained to handle terrorist situations. Just as I don't trust a teacher to be fully trained in teaching.

 

[Taleweaver]

What I find most worrying in my environment is that empathy for US citizens is steadily declining. President doofus obviously plays a part in it, but that damn stubbornness I see in reactions really adds to the fuel. Honestly: is there any way the gun lobbying group DOESN'T win?

Situation: a foreigner shoots up people
Response: buy weapons (reasoning: we cannot let the terrorists win!)

Situation: a white American shoots up people
Response: buy weapons (reasoning: we've got to arm ourselves against crazy people)

Situation: a shooting recently happened
Response: smother the debate on gun control on being "an inappropriate time"

Situation: no shooting recently happened
Response: smother the debate on gun control on "not being a priority"


The problem isn't in guns or in people. It's in culture. Like it or not, but America has a strong, vocal group of people who just want guns above anything else. And as long as they're voicing their stance the loudest (which, strange enough to foreigners, ISN'T countered by these situations), things aren't going to change.

Within the USA, that is. In my environment (which I fear goes for a large part of the rest of the world), nobody really cares anymore. We reason that if you really want your stupid freedom to bear arms so bad, then fine. Just don't expect our sympathy when you bloody well know the cost of that freedom.

Nope, The fact that USA has a mass shooting EVERY 3 DAYS, means that no matter how many people have guns, mass shootings still happen.

I've read something similar: that this was the 20th school shooting in the US this year. It's been a while since I couldn't believe the news anymore. This mainly proves that our local media doesn't even care about the situation anymore ("yet another shooting? Okay, how many victims? Naah...not enough. Let's bring some local news instead").

 

[330]

Oh boy, I didn't want to get into this topic here, but... two questions: what's stopping pedophiles from just waltzing into the wrong gendered bathroom anyway? A sign???? Pedophiles are criminals already, a placard isn't going to stop them from just walking in
And what would denying trans people from using the correct bathroom do about pedophiles that prey on children of the same gender?

ACTUALLY, make that three: there is a HUGE social stigma to overcome by being transgender, to the point where many are beaten and murdered with alarming frequency. Do you really think that a pedophile would pretend to be in that group just to beat it off to kids a couple times before they get caught? Especially considering there's virtually no documented case of that ever happening?

The idea of making gender-separated bathrooms makes no sense in the first place. Sure, male bathrooms can ideally have more space because of the urinals, but not everyone likes using them (especially non-circumcised males). They are afraid of people looking? Last time I checked, public bathrooms have private stalls. If anything, it's males that use urinals that should be afraid of being stared at. A gender keeps the place cleaner? Not only that's sexist, but it's simply not true. The internet is full of stories about women's bathrooms being filled with piss because many women don't want to sit on the toilet due to germs but have a shitty aim.

Bottomline: make gender neutral bathrooms. Maybe use the remaining one for handicapped people so they will always find a free space for them.






Getting back in topic, I wouldn't feel safe knowing that teachers have guns. Teachers should teach, not being prepared for offense in case of a shooting. What's next, getting them armor?

 

[ComeTurismO]

Australia's never had a mass-shooting in over a decade. Gee, I wonder what is making that happen?

There's been several mass shootings in the U.S., a Western country. Many people did not do anything except "thoughts and prayers" to the victims. Is that really helping?

 

[SG854]

I'm asking the same question because you keep giving the same answer that's completely contradictory to what you've been saying this whole thread, yet you retain your original stance

You're right about the US not being the highest in gun related deaths (although we are number 11, and the countries we come behind aren't exactly something to be proud of either), but we are the 2nd highest by gun-related suicide, and as far as I can tell, we're the country with the most annual mass shootings as well. No, we're obviously not "a bunch of Rambos," and yes, gun violence obviously is a global concern and not just an American one, but the rate of mass shootings like this is a uniquely American (United States) problem

Not true we are actually ranked 29 when we consider gun deaths per 100,000. Heres a chart of all the countries here. And there are quite a few countries with no data at all so USA may actually be lower than 29, maybe 33 or 37?

United States gun homicides per 100,000 is 2.97. With average fire arms per 100 people being 88.8. So USA is gun crazy.

In comparison to

Honduras homicides per 100,00 68.43. Fire arms ownership per 100 6.2.
El Salvador homicides 39.9. Fire arms ownership 5.8.
Jamaica homicides 39.4. Fire arms 8.1.
Venezuela homicides 38.97. Fire arms 10.7.

Country lower homicides but higher gun ownership than top 28.

Switzerland homicides 0.77. Fire arms ownership 45.7.
Canada homicides 0.51. Fire arms 30.8.
Belgium homicides 0.68. Fire arms 17.2.
Fineland homicides 0.45. fire arms 45.3.
Cyprus homicides 0.46. Fire arms 36.4.
Serbia homicides 0.46. Fire arms 37.8.
Sweden homicides 0.41. Fire arms 31.7.
Germany homicides 0.19. Fire arms 30.3.
And there are many more.

The top 28 countries on the list having gun owner ship far less than the United States all being under 15.0, but higher gun homicides, except for 1 country Panama being 21.7 gun ownership. Compare these countries to USA gun ownership 88.8 and deaths per 100,000 2.97 and USA is far tamer. More gun ownership but a good chunk of people people aren't going on deadly rampages. Yes when you compare it to other countries with similar economic situations USA is one of the worst in comparison, but considering the high gun ownership greatly increasing likely hood of gun deaths and USA is pretty tame compared to top 28. Compared to countries with higher gun ownership but less homicides it does seem USA is more deadly though.

Of course wars can over inflate deaths so this data is limited and doesn't tell other factors. And it doesn't look to see if areas with higher guns ownership equals to higher deaths. But without a heavy look at data a quick look shows this is not always the case. And this isn't me saying i'm for or against guns I'm just putting data that lots aren't considering.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Not true we are actually ranked 29 when we consider gun deaths per 100,000. Heres a chart of all the countries here. And there are quite a few countries with no data at all so USA may actually be lower than 29, maybe 33 or 37?

United States gun homicides per 100,000 is 2.97. With average fire arms per 100 people being 88.8. So USA is gun crazy.

In comparison to

Honduras homicides per 100,00 68.43. Fire arms ownership per 100 6.2.
El Salvador homicides 39.9. Fire arms ownership 5.8.
Jamaica homicides 39.4. Fire arms 8.1.
Venezuela homicides 38.97. Fire arms 10.7.

Country lower homicides but higher gun ownership than top 28.

Switzerland homicides 0.77. Fire arms ownership 45.7.
Canada homicides 0.51. Fire arms 30.8.
Belgium homicides 0.68. Fire arms 17.2.
Fineland homicides 0.45. fire arms 45.3.
Cyprus homicides 0.46. Fire arms 36.4.
Serbia homicides 0.46. Fire arms 37.8.
Sweden homicides 0.41. Fire arms 31.7.
Germany homicides 0.19. Fire arms 30.3.
And there are many more.

The top 28 countries on the list having gun owner ship far less than the United States all being under 15.0, but higher gun homicides, except for 1 country Panama being 21.7 gun ownership. Compare these countries to USA gun ownership 88.8 and deaths per 100,000 2.97 and USA is far tamer. More gun ownership but a good chunk of people people aren't going on deadly rampages. Yes when you compare it to other countries with similar economic situations USA is one of the worst in comparison, but considering the high gun ownership greatly increasing likely hood of gun deaths and USA is pretty tame compared to top 28. Compared to countries with higher gun ownership but less homicides it does seem USA is more deadly though.

Of course wars can over inflate deaths so this data is limited and doesn't tell other factors. And it doesn't look to see if areas with higher guns ownership equals to higher deaths. But without a heavy look at data a quick look shows this is not always the case. And this isn't me saying i'm for or against guns I'm just putting data that lots aren't considering.

I'm not sure about the rest of the data (I'd have to look into it), but I know right now that both Sweden and Switzerland can be discarded because they have compulsory military service for all males and allow them to take their weapons home, but do NOT allow them to have ammunition. It also must be considered that the US is unique in the sense that aside from urban centers, our population is very spread out, whereas in at least European countries the populous is very dense, which makes killing more people a lot easier

 

[CallmeBerto]

Some history on how we got here -

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Just got done watching all of it an he basically said (towards the end) that changes to the gun laws are impossible. While I don't 100% agree I do see his point. Like I said before you have to start with the average American and convince them we need some kind of change. I honestly have no idea how to do that though.

 

[Taleweaver]

Not true we are actually ranked 29 when we consider gun deaths per 100,000. Heres a chart of all the countries here. And there are quite a few countries with no data at all so USA may actually be lower than 29, maybe 33 or 37?

United States gun homicides per 100,000 is 2.97. With average fire arms per 100 people being 88.8. So USA is gun crazy.

In comparison to

Honduras homicides per 100,00 68.43. Fire arms ownership per 100 6.2.
El Salvador homicides 39.9. Fire arms ownership 5.8.
Jamaica homicides 39.4. Fire arms 8.1.
Venezuela homicides 38.97. Fire arms 10.7.

Country lower homicides but higher gun ownership than top 28.

Switzerland homicides 0.77. Fire arms ownership 45.7.
Canada homicides 0.51. Fire arms 30.8.
Belgium homicides 0.68. Fire arms 17.2.
Fineland homicides 0.45. fire arms 45.3.
Cyprus homicides 0.46. Fire arms 36.4.
Serbia homicides 0.46. Fire arms 37.8.
Sweden homicides 0.41. Fire arms 31.7.
Germany homicides 0.19. Fire arms 30.3.
And there are many more.

The top 28 countries on the list having gun owner ship far less than the United States all being under 15.0, but higher gun homicides, except for 1 country Panama being 21.7 gun ownership. Compare these countries to USA gun ownership 88.8 and deaths per 100,000 2.97 and USA is far tamer. More gun ownership but a good chunk of people people aren't going on deadly rampages. Yes when you compare it to other countries with similar economic situations USA is one of the worst in comparison, but considering the high gun ownership greatly increasing likely hood of gun deaths and USA is pretty tame compared to top 28. Compared to countries with higher gun ownership but less homicides it does seem USA is more deadly though.

Of course wars can over inflate deaths so this data is limited and doesn't tell other factors. And it doesn't look to see if areas with higher guns ownership equals to higher deaths. But without a heavy look at data a quick look shows this is not always the case. And this isn't me saying i'm for or against guns I'm just putting data that lots aren't considering.

Can't say much on other countries, but I honestly didn't believe Belgium's number (no freaking way that there's about 1 gun for every 5 people). So I checked a bit...here...

Rate of Civilian Firearm Possession per 100 Population
ChartThe estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) per 100 people in Belgium is

2015: 6.86
2010: 8.18
2006: 18.98
2005: 17.2

In other words: your numbers are, at least what Belgium's concerned, well over ten years old and about a third of that value.

 

[Hanafuda]

Not true we are actually ranked 29 when we consider gun deaths per 100,000. Heres a chart of all the countries here. And there are quite a few countries with no data at all so USA may actually be lower than 29, maybe 33 or 37?

United States gun homicides per 100,000 is 2.97. With average fire arms per 100 people being 88.8. So USA is gun crazy.

In comparison to

Honduras homicides per 100,00 68.43. Fire arms ownership per 100 6.2.
El Salvador homicides 39.9. Fire arms ownership 5.8.
Jamaica homicides 39.4. Fire arms 8.1.
Venezuela homicides 38.97. Fire arms 10.7.

Country lower homicides but higher gun ownership than top 28.

Switzerland homicides 0.77. Fire arms ownership 45.7.
Canada homicides 0.51. Fire arms 30.8.
Belgium homicides 0.68. Fire arms 17.2.
Fineland homicides 0.45. fire arms 45.3.
Cyprus homicides 0.46. Fire arms 36.4.
Serbia homicides 0.46. Fire arms 37.8.
Sweden homicides 0.41. Fire arms 31.7.
Germany homicides 0.19. Fire arms 30.3.
And there are many more.

The top 28 countries on the list having gun owner ship far less than the United States all being under 15.0, but higher gun homicides, except for 1 country Panama being 21.7 gun ownership. Compare these countries to USA gun ownership 88.8 and deaths per 100,000 2.97 and USA is far tamer. More gun ownership but a good chunk of people people aren't going on deadly rampages. Yes when you compare it to other countries with similar economic situations USA is one of the worst in comparison, but considering the high gun ownership greatly increasing likely hood of gun deaths and USA is pretty tame compared to top 28. Compared to countries with higher gun ownership but less homicides it does seem USA is more deadly though.

Of course wars can over inflate deaths so this data is limited and doesn't tell other factors. And it doesn't look to see if areas with higher guns ownership equals to higher deaths. But without a heavy look at data a quick look shows this is not always the case. And this isn't me saying i'm for or against guns I'm just putting data that lots aren't considering.

Imagine what the stats for the USA would be if you discounted the violence in New Orleans, Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, and St. Louis, and other Democrat-majority urban centers. The USA's image is skewed by these metro murder outliers.