All Wii backup loader/Waninkoko discussion goes here.

[TrolleyDave]

It's over. He's said he's stopping work on it. You just don't see it as over because you believe that if you push, scream and bully enough he might change his mind and release it to the community. Plus I think JKRs post was of more substance then yours and found his reply actually added quite alot of intelligence to the thread.

Thank you so very much for proving that instead of actually reading and comprehending posts, you instead jump in to blindly defend this childish decision without even knowing who you are responding to. Further proof that you guys have no clue what you're talking about, nor any logical basis on which to come to a rational and adult opinion on the matter.

For the last time, hopefully, I could care less about this release. I am merely here to ridicule and criticize this absolutely inane and irrational decision. Please learn to read, thank you.

Please refrain from using large text, it doesn't help your case any and just annoys me. Anyway back to the point. I don't remember reading a post stating that you had no use for this, for that I apologize. It still doesn't change the fact though that you are attempting to ridicule and bully a developer into releasing software that he has every right not to release.

It's an absolutely logical decision for someone involved in any kind of this scene. The work isn't for public consumption, it's for people involved in the scene. Why is that so hard for people here to understand? Why does everyone think that it's their inalienable right to have any bit of software that any hacker/cracker/pirate writes. When did it suddenly become everybodies right to receive a hackers work instead of the priveledge that it actually is?

 

[Toni Plutonij]

1) Learn the proper usage of the word 'ignorant'.

2) I'm not saying he's a robot, I'm simply looking at this from a logical perspective, as I have stated many times. Emotions should not weigh this heavily on the release of this project, or rather, on his decision concerning the leak. If they do, then honestly, Waninkoko has some personal problems that he needs to work on. A leak should not make you "not feel good" about it. I mean, the work is still there. Nothing has changed. It's still your work and there are still plenty of people who will appreciate it.

3) I don't need to be a part of the scene, or community, to have even the -basic- understanding that people exist that appreciate Waninkoko's work, and not in a YAY FREE HAX way, in a "Man, thank you so much for this, you are a god of the scene" fashion. These are the people that he needs to think about, instead of being whiny and childish.

4) I say he should finish it for two reasons: 1: His reason for abandoning it is infantile. And 2, perhaps the most important one: He's already invested so much time into it. If he doesn't finish it, then it's like all the time he's already spent on it is a complete waste. Now, maybe it's just me because I extremely value my free time, but I would never abandon a project period because of this reason alone. I absolutely hate to waste time.

You should consider that I'm from Croatia, I'm not a natural english-speaking person, so sometimes it's hard to express myself, and find the right words..So it's plain stupid to trying to "get" me on language basis..You know what I meant!

It's not about logic at all, it's about respecting this guys decision..Emotions ARE the only reason why he's doing it, how can't you get it..He won't be getting payed for this, this loader wont give him food on table, it won't give him more free time, it won't benefit him in any way other than feeling good and satisfied!!
Do you understand this?
I don't think he's got any personal problems, and writing something like that can only hurt..
DO you understand that he's doing it because he feels good, not because others will feel good using it..

And he probably thinks only about people who respect him, and like his work..But you really don't seem like that type of guy..I really can't see why would you "flame" (it's not really flaming, but you're calling him childish, and back up referencer who called him a dick!!) the guy for his decision!!
It's like flaming me for not buying a car/or creating one!!?? (You said you don't have an interest in this loader, and you wouldn't have in my car)..

 

[Hitoshura]

The troll named Hitoshura needs to liek literally, liek, needz to gtfo amirite?

The kid named Brian117 needs to liek literally, liek, learn what the definition of troll is amirite?

That or my sarcasm detectors are broken.

WHICH IS IT?!



Trolling is simply when a member joins a site and just flames everyone with offtopic shit.

And next time, try figuring out your own backups instead of stealing mine and using my special leet.

And the 5 posts give away your trolling.

Uh huh. Hmm. No.

Trolling is where someone posts "offtopic shit" for the sole purpose of pissing people off. Which I have yet to do, I have merely posted my opinions and retorts.

"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

Gogogo wikipedia!

QUOTE(TrolleyDave @ Sep 20 2008, 01:00 PM)

Please refrain from using large text, it doesn't help your case any and just annoys me. Anyway back to the point. I don't remember reading a post stating that you had no use for this, for that I apologize. It still doesn't change the fact though that you are attempting to ridicule and bully a developer into releasing software that he has every right not to release.

It's an absolutely logical decision for someone involved in any kind of this scene. The work isn't for public consumption, it's for people involved in the scene. Why is that so hard for people here to understand? Why does everyone think that it's their inalienable right to have any bit of software that any hacker/cracker/pirate writes. When did it suddenly become everybodies right to receive a hackers work instead of the priveledge that it actually is?

The large text is because it seems several times in this thread, despite both referencer and myself saying otherwise, we have been accusing of "whining because we aren't getting our way" or some such, when that is hardly the case.

And no, it is not a logical decision, and the crux of this is the time that he has already invested into the project. Whether or not for public consumption or scene consumption is somewhat irrelevant, aside from the reason he should be even more proud of his work - the people who support him. Once again, I am not saying he should release it because I want it, or that the community in general wants it: I am merely saying that I am sure that even in the "scene" there are people who highly appreciate his work and inform him of such, and these are the people he should think of, if not at least for the feeling of thanks he would recieve from them. That and of course so that he hasn't wasted all the time he has already invested on this project. I am sure that this is no small feat, and he has spent many hours of time on this project, so the question is, why quit now? Because some scene kiddies leaked a possibly buggy build to the public? No. That is an extremely irrational reason to stop, when he could just finish it and have a sense of accomplishment instead of a sense of betrayal and defeat.

 

[Hitoshura]

You should consider that I'm from Croatia, I'm not a natural english-speaking person, so sometimes it's hard to express myself, and find the right words..So it's plain stupid to trying to "get" me on language basis..You know what I meant!

It's not about logic at all, it's about respecting this guys decision..Emotions ARE the only reason why he's doing it, how can't you get it..He won't be getting payed for this, this loader wont give him food on table, it won't give him more free time, it won't benefit him in any way other than feeling good and satisfied!!
Do you understand this?
I don't think he's got any personal problems, and writing something like that can only hurt..
DO you understand that he's doing it because he feels good, not because others will feel good using it..

And he probably thinks only about people who respect him, and like his work..But you really don't seem like that type of guy..I really can't see why would you "flame" (it's not really flaming, but you're calling him childish, and back up referencer who called him a dick!!) the guy for his decision!!
It's like flaming me for not buying a car/or creating one!!?? (You said you don't have an interest in this loader, and you wouldn't have in my car)..

Apologies then, I figured your grasp on English wasn't great but I believe the word 'ignorant' wasn't the idea you were trying to convey. Again, sorry.

Once again, I point out that it is just silly to halt the project at this point because of "emotions". Sure, it's an emotional blow, but have you ever heard of the phrases "Bite the bullet" or "just grin and bear it"? These refer to simply working through hard times to ultimately come to a sense of accomplishment, instead of defeat.

I mean, which would you rather feel? Would you like to feel like you had actually DONE something, or would you like to feel grief because you had given up on something? I would like to think that you would choose the first answer.

I may not seem like "that type of guy", but it has to do with the situation at hand. If an indie dev makes something I like and enjoy, I will let him know that I appreciate his work, and if they have a nifty little PayPal button on their site, if I have the spare funds I will donate a couple bucks to them for their hard work. However, halting a project for such a silly reason is just that: silly. Again, why give in to defeat? Just finish it for the accomplishment, at least.

 

[TrolleyDave]

And no, it is not a logical decision, and the crux of this is the time that he has already invested into the project. Whether or not for public consumption or scene consumption is somewhat irrelevant, aside from the reason he should be even more proud of his work - the people who support him. Once again, I am not saying he should release it because I want it, or that the community in general wants it: I am merely saying that I am sure that even in the "scene" there are people who highly appreciate his work and inform him of such, and these are the people he should think of, if not at least for the feeling of thanks he would recieve from them. That and of course so that he hasn't wasted all the time he has already invested on this project. I am sure that this is no small feat, and he has spent many hours of time on this project, so the question is, why quit now? Because some scene kiddies leaked a possibly buggy build to the public? No. That is an extremely irrational reason to stop, when he could just finish it and have a sense of accomplishment instead of a sense of betrayal and defeat.

If you were involved in this type of thing in any way other then being a end-user then you would understand the logic behind his decision. There are people in the scene who appreciate his work, but him stopping work on it won't make them cry out that he's not releasing it. Instead he'll share what knowledge he's got and other groups will work on their own, only this time it well be kept completely secret from anyone who can't be trusted not to release it to the public. Just think of it this way, releasing this to the public has now opened Ninty's eyes up to that particular hole. A fix from them is a firmware away. The scene suffers because of the general public getting a hold of stuff.

 

[cephalopoid]

A lurker with an opinion.
I don't feel like I should have the right to any piece of code. Everything is a privilege. I feel completely lucky that Waninkoko and everyone else put their time and energy into hacking, as a hobby.

But let's be real, for a second. Waninkoko made a mistake by trusting someone with his code. Sure, it's not Waninkoko's fault that it the guy actually leaked it, but it takes a high degree of naivety to trust someone in the hacker scene.

I can see how he's angry about this, but then again it seems like he's over-reacting. Of all the years I've lurked the hacking community (since the early days of the PS2 scene), I have scene leaks, but never have I scene a project get abandoned just because of an early leak.

I'm sorry, but Waninkoko isn't really acting like an adult here. Nor is he even acting like a benefactor to the hacking community. He's acting like a 16 year old diva whose date ditched her at the prom, now she's at home crying.

An adult wouldn't abandon his project.

An adult would realize, wow, this community of hackers, who walk the line of legality every day, probably aren't too be trusted too much. Maybe I should do a better job of screening who I give the beta to.

I want you all to imagine what our little world would be like if every piece of software was abandoned because it was leaked. And I'm not just talking hacker code. I'm talking professional code too.

Now for some speculation:
Given the circumstances, I think Waninkoko coded himself into a dead end, and couldn't actually make the product he promised. This allowed him to save face and abandon it without getting the burnt of the blame. If it did work, and if it was such a master piece of code, he wouldn't abandon it like he did.



Lurker, out.

 

[Sors]

the one point i dont understand about waninkoko is that he even started that project, he was pissed extrem by the piracy use of his wad injector, yet he works on a backup loader

 

[Hitoshura]

If you were involved in this type of thing in any way other then being a end-user then you would understand the logic behind his decision. There are people in the scene who appreciate his work, but him stopping work on it won't make them cry out that he's not releasing it. Instead he'll share what knowledge he's got and other groups will work on their own, only this time it well be kept completely secret from anyone who can't be trusted not to release it to the public. Just think of it this way, releasing this to the public has now opened Ninty's eyes up to that particular hole. A fix from them is a firmware away. The scene suffers because of the general public getting a hold of stuff.

Doubtful, considering how long it took them to block out WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack. Piracy is at the bottom of Nintendo's priority list.

 

[TrolleyDave]

Doubtful, considering how long it took them to block out WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack. Piracy is at the bottom of Nintendo's priority list.

Piracy has always been high on Nintendo's priority list, even back in the Magicom days.

 

[Hitoshura]

Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack? Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.

 

[Notorious9i6]

well since it got leaked, i see some good into it,
He might pick it up again and there is huge amount of people beta testing it.

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Apologies then, I figured your grasp on English wasn't great but I believe the word 'ignorant' wasn't the idea you were trying to convey. Again, sorry.

Once again, I point out that it is just silly to halt the project at this point because of "emotions". Sure, it's an emotional blow, but have you ever heard of the phrases "Bite the bullet" or "just grin and bear it"? These refer to simply working through hard times to ultimately come to a sense of accomplishment, instead of defeat.

I mean, which would you rather feel? Would you like to feel like you had actually DONE something, or would you like to feel grief because you had given up on something? I would like to think that you would choose the first answer.

I may not seem like "that type of guy", but it has to do with the situation at hand. If an indie dev makes something I like and enjoy, I will let him know that I appreciate his work, and if they have a nifty little PayPal button on their site, if I have the spare funds I will donate a couple bucks to them for their hard work. However, halting a project for such a silly reason is just that: silly. Again, why give in to defeat? Just finish it for the accomplishment, at least.

It's OK, people often forget or don't realize that I'm not "englishman"

OK, I understand what are you trying to say, it has sense from one point of view..But you really should consider that Waninkoko probably WILL finish the loader.....And it's very possible that he won't release it..
He will, however, get that "feeling of accomplishment" sooner or later, and it won't have nothing to do with releasing it or not..

I already said, and I will again, I've been in a similar situation (not as drastic and big as this), but I can understand the guy and his feeling from my personal experience!!

I show respect towards him, because it's something I'd like to get..You can feel and think what ever you want..I simply think he deserves more!

 

[TrolleyDave]

Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack? Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.

It depends on the size of the problem. When Magicoms were kept amongst the scene they did very little except change mapper addresses. When they became widespread the started putting blocking code in the BIOS. When it became even larger they went after the importers of the devices. The same thing then happened with the N64 copiers, except that time Ninty went after Bung Enterprises themselves.

A similar pattern is happening with the flashcarts. Now they've become so popular and public that people believe that it's an official add-on (there were lot's of posts from people asking for help with their flashcart on the official Nintendo forums last year) they're doing something about.

With an exploit like this that makes it so every Tom, Dick and Harriet can copy games pretty easily Nintendo would get off their asses and do something about it.

It's like MP3s, when it was just people swapping them amongst people capable of doing it, nobody gave a damn. When software was released that meant that anyone with a double digit IQ and a connection to the net could download as many MP3s as they want with ease then the record companies started throwing their weight around.

See what happens when things go from "scene" to "community"? This is why people in the scene like to keep their stuff there.

 

[Phaethon]

Now he has everything he ever wanted: You all are talking about him and he is playing with himself...

 

[Toni Plutonij]

Now he has everything he ever wanted: You all are talking about him and he is playing with himself...

?!
Everybody already talked about him before..He's really well know in Nintendo homebrew circles..

 

[Lionhawk]

Well, there's one things that disturbs me in this thread. There's a bunch of guys saying that they have modchips so they don't give a S... about the loader, that modchips are cheap and easy to install.

The problem is not everyone is from a big country, and have the luck to have a store near that sell cheaps, also that let you buy with $ on the net. In my case in Venezuela we are restricted to 400$ a year for shopping online, and everything that's sell here in electronics is extremely overpriced (PS3 about 1300$). So is kind of selfish to look just your side of the block and say you give a damn about it because there could be people that may find it useful. Though even i want the backup loader to be completed, is his decision if released or not.

Seeing the things from multiple sides, which ever is his reason for not releasing it (Guy leaking, maybe he was, maybe don't, maybe it, maybe he traveled in time) he is a individual and has the right to do things as he pleased for which ever reason he wants. Though i'm no implying that he is doing it for any reason about stated, and maybe for some he has childish reactions but if he doesn't release it you can't do a thing about, except writing the backup loader yourself.

This topic is getting quite senseless lately.

 

[tahtah]

too bad this got leaked. I already have a modchip but I thought this could be a very intresting app too bad. still props to the legendary Waninkoko i hope he will pick up this project sumtimes.

 

[nephdj]

Then... why did it take them almost two years to break WiiKeys and the Twilight Hack? Seems to me Nintendo has a "eh, if we can block it, great, if not, don't put too much effort into it." kind of stance on piracy.

TP exploit wasnt useful for the first 12-16months.
Was only at the launch of wiiware, that the homebrew channel and such started.

 

[GeekyGuy]

How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?

You don't see it, do you?

 

[Ruri]

How would you feel if someone took your hard work and dumped it onto the internet without your permission?

You don't see it, do you?

Heh.

No, no, no, you don't understand why are all the people here at GBAtemp so concerned about this. I mean, do you really think upstanding citizens like us would pirate videogames? We're honest, hardworking folk! We're just sad that it's going to be harder for us to make legitimate backups of the games we legally buy.

All that aside... is GBAtemp getting attacked or hammered over this news or something, by somebody who is annoyed that the initial reports that it was leaked seem to have broken here first? I've been having a ton of trouble accessing the website ever since this news broke.