Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[Alexander1970]

I’m surprised that more people aren’t in the streets burning down anything that’s flammable considering the fact that we’ll soon be on year 2 of 2 weeks to stop the spread. The world population is exceedingly calm given the circumstances.

Funny....a Moment ago:

https://www.krone.at/2559828

Corona frustated People want to burn Policecar and the Policeofficers....

 

[osm70]

Well if youre drunk then you're legally not allowed to drive at all

"You have to take the vaccine" is comparable to "you can't drink at all".

"You can't drive while being drunk" would be comparable to "you can't have a job if you aren't vaccinated".

That's all I am saying.

 

[Foxi4]

is it Australia or Austria? Are you mismatching?

It would be funny to see a politician in Australia lose a election because a domestic Austrian Law.

Yeah, I’ve corrected myself, it is Austria. I’m on mobile so my typing ability is severely limited by autocorrect and hands like loaves of bread.

 

[Deleted member 507653]

"You have to take the vaccine" is comparable to "you can't drink at all".

"You can't drive while being drunk" would be comparable to "you can't have a job if you aren't vaccinated".

That's all I am saying.

I think you're misunderstanding. I wasn't trying to do a one-to-one comparison. I was simply addressing the statement "my body my choice" and how that is simply not true when it comes to public health

But yeah I agree, a better comparison would be something like stopping people from doing crystal meth

 

[FAST6191]

Just another police state doing typical police state things, nothing new under the sun. I strongly support getting vaccinated (because it probably works), but not at the point of a gun. With some luck the Australian government will reap what they sow next election season.

+1 to being happy to see Australian gov getting a kick in the teeth but that is a different topic.
Seems they are presently governed by the OVP (nominally a right wing party, though right-left is probably a poor framing on this site and as concerns Austria) and greens (which seem to have all kinds of personal rights at their heart) in coalition. Unless you are going to reckon some kind of massive sea change...

I mean, there's no gun pointing involved, only a bit of jail time or, even more likely, a fine but okay.

Which is enforced at the point of a gun (tried running away from jail or fines lately?). Minor abstraction.

This isn’t a source nor even a link to any kind of article. There’s no debate to be had, just provide a source that shows not getting vaccinated doesn’t have harmful effects on others around the Individual.

Again you being the one to make the radical claim (that being we should forcibly inject people of otherwise sound mind against their will) get to be the one to back it up on it being such an overwhelming necessity as to justify bypassing what is otherwise a fairly fundamentally held right.
I would probably completely agree on statistically (absolutism and science you seem to want to champion do not go hand in hand but for the sake of discussion that can be overlooked) there is going to be someone with a shitty immune system (even more so as mere age works for this it seems) in some kind of non abstract circles, and transmission rates is fairly sound maths even without that. Diseases tend to have transmission rates (higher than many but ultimately fairly low as these things go in this case) and deadliness factors (higher than some but still far from apocalyptic, even if some did like to do the sky is falling routine) that go together for the basic metric of their concern levels (100% fatal but only contracted from prolonged sexual contact with a rare rock would probably be hard to justify a forced vaccination for, even assuming someone thought it sexy enough to make a vaccine for* it). Evolution/mutation is also good maths fun simple maths covered in that one.

*this is also far from the first coronavirus in modern times to have serious fun around the place. Are those that denied funding the last few goes around now negligent to the point you seem to want to hold the unvaccinated to?

 

[osm70]

I like how people act as if mandatory vaccination was something new and exclusive to covid. The pox vaccine is also mandatory, for example. or at least in some countries, no idea about the whole world.

 

[subcon959]

What is sad:
The people who are now screaming loudest
"Yes, I said yes, you have to force the vaccination into their brains ...!"
I'm personally sorry for them.
Are you aware that a GENERAL vaccination obligation means that with the next mutation you MUST take the vaccine, no matter how untested / new it is!

I read here from people who actually pay attention / are proud of their bodies and who emphasize this again and again and then do these people allow themselves to inject any shit?

Well....bravo ....

Most of the people forcing everyone about this are trusting the pharm companies too much. I had to get the vaccine because I am on the vulnerable list. I'm on the vulnerable list because I was prescribed a drug that the pharm company lied about the safety even when they knew it could be dangerous. This is why I am strongly against medical mandates by the government because I know they can be made to make bad decisions.

 

[Foxi4]

I like how people act as if mandatory vaccination was something new and exclusive to covid. The pox vaccine is also mandatory, for example. or at least in some countries, no idea about the whole world.

The pox vaccine, along with other vaccinations intended for young children, is administered between the ages of 12 and 15 months. The COVID vaccine is administered primarily to grown adults who have their own agency and can make a decision in regards to their own health. There is precedent for the state making decisions on behalf of citizens who lack the capacity to make them themselves, there is no such precedent for grown adults who should be protected by the right to bodily integrity as described in the human rights charter. This includes the right to choose what medical procedures one is willing to undertake and which ones they refuse, for all the right or wrong reasons. It is not for you or for the government to decide what medication your neighbour chooses to ingest or inject, and your neighbour is not obligated to placate anyone’s hypochondria and paranoia regarding their medical status.

 

[FAST6191]

I like how people act as if mandatory vaccination was something new and exclusive to covid. The pox vaccine is also mandatory, for example. or at least in some countries, no idea about the whole world.

Most countries anybody would want to live in encourage it strongly (make it dirt cheap/free, education, incentives both carrot and stick, and for generally good stuff that demonstrably works) but stop short of making it mandatory. Making it mandatory is something usually reserved for rather more authoritarian setups that we usually see people want to claim asylum from or otherwise migrate from whenever they can/if given half a chance, that or in truly dire cases (life seems to be going on OK despite being what two years on at this point since someone nibbled some bat soup).
Making it mandatory might as a society wide affair be of some net good, similar to killing all the religious, the stupid, the autistic, the vegans, the disabled, and [insert other nebulous grouping that are holding back society or at least not as positive as some others for your particular goals], but does rather go against individual freedoms (that tend to also by why people want to live in those places if given the chance).

 

[deinonychus71]

"Your freedom ends where mine begins".

Such a simple concept, you'd think everyone would agree with that.

 

[The Catboy]

+1 to being happy to see Australian gov getting a kick in the teeth but that is a different topic.
Seems they are presently governed by the OVP (nominally a right wing party, though right-left is probably a poor framing on this site and as concerns Austria) and greens (which seem to have all kinds of personal rights at their heart) in coalition. Unless you are going to reckon some kind of massive sea change...



Which is enforced at the point of a gun (tried running away from jail or fines lately?). Minor abstraction.

Again you being the one to make the radical claim (that being we should forcibly inject people of otherwise sound mind against their will) get to be the one to back it up on it being such an overwhelming necessity as to justify bypassing what is otherwise a fairly fundamentally held right.
I would probably completely agree on statistically (absolutism and science you seem to want to champion do not go hand in hand but for the sake of discussion that can be overlooked) there is going to be someone with a shitty immune system (even more so as mere age works for this it seems) in some kind of non abstract circles, and transmission rates is fairly sound maths even without that. Diseases tend to have transmission rates (higher than many but ultimately fairly low as these things go in this case) and deadliness factors (higher than some but still far from apocalyptic, even if some did like to do the sky is falling routine) that go together for the basic metric of their concern levels (100% fatal but only contracted from prolonged sexual contact with a rare rock would probably be hard to justify a forced vaccination for, even assuming someone thought it sexy enough to make a vaccine for* it). Evolution/mutation is also good maths fun simple maths covered in that one.

*this is also far from the first coronavirus in modern times to have serious fun around the place. Are those that denied funding the last few goes around now negligent to the point you seem to want to hold the unvaccinated to?

I did not claim to want people to want to force people to be vaccinated nor even show support for mandatory vaccination. I am on the mindset that the government shouldn’t force people to do anything. I am on the mindset that those who can be vaccinated but choose not to, should not be respected as they are a detriment to others. My requests have been to prove that they have actual research to back up their reasoning for not wanting to be vaccinated. My additional requests was for sources showing that they aren’t a danger to others. I am not being unreasonable to request resources for someone’s position nor am I unreasonable for poking holes through statements that don’t match up with the request. I am simply looking for the sources people used to come to their conclusions.

 

[Foxi4]

"Your freedom ends where mine begins".

Such a simple concept, you'd think everyone would agree with that.

There is only one side here that forces the other to do something they don’t want or care to do. Nobody is forcing you to associate with the unvaccinated, nobody is stopping you from getting vaccinated yourself. I don’t see how this argument entitles you to make decisions regarding any third party’s health - you’re the one in control of your own safety, the risk and reward calculation is in your favour.

 

[osm70]

The pox vaccine, along with other vaccinations intended for young children, is administered between the ages of 12 and 15 months. The COVID vaccine is administered primarily to grown adults who have their own agency and can make a decision in regards to their own health. There is precedent for the state making decisions on behalf of citizens who lack the capacity to make them themselves, there is no such precedent for grown adults who should be protected by the right to bodily integrity as described in the human rights charter. This includes the right to choose what medical procedures one is willing to undertake and which ones they refuse, for all the right or wrong reasons. It is not for you or for the government to decide what medication your neighbour chooses to ingest or inject, and your neighbour is not obligated to placate anyone’s hypochondria and paranoia regarding their medical status.

No precedent, you say? Well, let me blow your mind. I live in the Czech Republic and I am 26 years old. 2 months ago, I went to a hospital with a leg injury. When I was there, they checked my medical records and found out that my mandatory tetanus vaccination is expired. They injected me with another tetanus shot right there, no questions asked. It's been like that for years in this country and as far as I can see, no one questions it.

 

[FAST6191]

I did not claim to want people to want to force people to be vaccinated nor even show support for mandatory vaccination. I am on the mindset that the government shouldn’t force people to do anything. I am on the mindset that those who can be vaccinated but choose not to, should not be respected as they are a detriment to others. My requests have been to prove that they have actual research to back up their reasoning for not wanting to be vaccinated. My additional requests was for sources showing that they aren’t a danger to others. I am not being unreasonable to request resources for someone’s position nor am I unreasonable for poking holes through statements that don’t match up with the request. I am simply looking for the sources people used to come to their conclusions.

Whether that is my misread or you changing goalposts I can't be bothered to parse at this point.
If that is your burden then so it goes. They in turn get to live without your respect, which going by previous philosophy/political/whatever threads is no mean feat to obtain either and about as valuable as opinions are in general.
The reasoning could be as simple as "ew potential for unpleasant side effect, no thanks" ("tragedy is when I prick my finger, comedy is when you fall down a well and die" and all that -- my sore arm is worth more than your life, or indeed my risk of strokes (be it from the vaccination itself, which was a thing in rare cases for some of them, or from maltreatment because some half baked whatever in the cattle sheds administering it did an air bubble) could be valid if sitting within your framework, and if going for the general law then "my horoscope said not to" is as good as anything else.

Equally the vaccinated could still be a demonstrable danger to others (even as far as efficacy goes this is on the more dubious side of things, even before the likes of the undiagnosed cancer problem), just presumably less of one.

 

[deinonychus71]

There is only one side here that forces the other to do something they don’t want or care to do. Nobody is forcing you to associate with the unvaccinated, nobody is stopping you from getting vaccinated yourself. I don’t see how this argument entitles you to make decisions regarding any third party’s health - you’re the one in control of your own safety, the risk and reward calculation is in your favour.

Clusters are primarily started in under vaccinated areas, effectively putting the entire population at risk. People can travel the country (or the world) twice before showing any symptom. "Nobody is forcing you to associate with the unvaccinated" is not true in all countries. In the US there is no Covid pass that can be verified, as it's just a piece of paper and many people -in the name of that freedom- are lying about their status, therefore exposing other people who in their right ~"their freedom"~ choose to not accept unvaccinated people or people without masks on their premises.

We are also not in control of our own safety in a society when in order to live one must go to work everyday. We can only reduce the risks while other people make it more difficult for everyone.

Non vaccinated people -are- undermining the global effort to get rid and the pandemic. I haven't been able to see my family in almost 2 years because of travel bans, and I was happy to comply for the interest of all, now if Christmas is a bust again I'm absolutely going to blame unvaccinated people for forcing another lockdown on us.

But I will still comply. Because the interest of us all is more important.

Now of course the underlying issue has nothing to do with the vaccine itself, no need to pretend otherwise. It's entirely political.

 

[Foxi4]

No precedent, you say? Well, let me blow your mind. I live in the Czech Republic and I am 26 years old. 2 months ago, I went to a hospital with a leg injury. When I was there, they checked my medical records and found out that my mandatory tetanus vaccination is expired. They injected me with another tetanus shot right there, no questions asked. It's been like that for years in this country and as far as I can see, no one questions it.

Of course they injected you with a tetanus vaccination, that’s part of the treatment for that kind of injury anyway, especially if you’re dealing with an open wound. You haven’t blown my mind, I’m afraid.



I very much doubt that anyone’s chasing you around with a flu jab every year, it’s entirely optional, and the flu kills hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. You were also free to refuse treatment, you just didn’t. You’ll also note that your vaccination was long since expired and you weren’t, y’know, in jail for missing it. Nice try though.

 

[osm70]

Of course they injected you with a tetanus vaccination, that’s part of the treatment for that kind of injury anyway, especially if you’re dealing with an open fracture. You haven’t blown my mind, I’m afraid. I very much doubt that anyone’s chasing you around with a flu jab every year, it’s entirely optional, and the flu kills hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. You were also free to refuse treatment, you just didn’t. You’ll also note that your vaccination was long since expired and you weren’t, y’know, in jail for missing it. Nice try though.

Well... yes. You are right about the flu vaccine not being mandatory here. I guess this just shows that I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[Foxi4]

Well... yes. You are right about the flu vaccine not being mandatory here. I guess this just shows that I don't know what I am talking about.

No harm done. I’m pro vaccine anyway, it’s proven to be effective and everyone should take it at their earliest convenience. I’m just not willing to put people in jail or fine them for exercising their human rights.

 

[AmandaRose]

No harm done. I’m pro vaccine anyway, it’s proven to be effective and everyone should take it at their earliest convenience. I’m just not willing to put people in jail or fine them for exercising their human rights.

For once I am actually in agreement with one of your posts

 

[Deleted member 507653]

No harm done. I’m pro vaccine anyway, it’s proven to be effective and everyone should take it at their earliest convenience. I’m just not willing to put people in jail or fine them for exercising their human rights.

Easy to say, hard to define. If you're aiming for human rights where you get to do whatever you want whenever you want, I'd invite you come out from under your rock. On the other hand, if we pursue human rights as an optimization to allow the most amount of freedom for everyone in society as a *whole*, the vaccine mandate falls completely under that.