In order to improve the standard of living for all we must be economical with our resources.

[Deleted member 608654]

It may not always be the case long-term. But people generally try to get the highest amount of profits, in the shortest amount of time. Corporations have a tendency to exploit the most profitable margin, then move onto the next until they fade. It's not always about providing a genuine service, rather gaining profits through exploitative means.

Sure it's not always the case, but generally you can count on it being so.

The lesson you learn when you reach adulthood is that everything sucks one way or another.

 

[Deleted member 571007]

The lesson you learn when you reach adulthood is that everything sucks one way or another.

And so the world goes. It's impossible to please everyone - a fact I've long since accepted. Put simply there's nothing that can be done to truly change the state of things as of now, and if it ever is changed for the better? I doubt I'll ever see it in my life-time.

I understand why these means are used, whether I agree with them or not; it's just something we can't change as of now. Or rather won't change because people refuse to lose the smallest margin of profit.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

And so the world goes. It's impossible to please everyone - a fact I've long since accepted. Put simply there's nothing that can be done to truly change the state of things as of now, and if it ever is changed for the better? I doubt I'll ever see it in my life-time.

I understand why these means are used, whether I agree with them or not; it's just something we can't change as of now. Or rather won't change because people refuse to lose the smallest margin of profit.

, this is why economics exists.

 

[Deleted member 571007]

, this is why economics exists.

Oh, I know. I'm actually enrolled in an Economics class. I'm just simply stating that until the overwhelming majority of people are on the same page with the issue - there isn't much to be done.

That being said though, with a government such as ours which can be strong-armed by major corporations, which most of refuse to sacrifice any form of profit, I don't see much in the realm of change any time soon.

Feel free to prove me wrong though, since I never claimed superiority on the subject.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

That being said though, with a government such as ours which can be strong-armed by major corporations, which most of refuse to sacrifice any form of profit, I don't see much in the realm of change any time soon.

Feel free to prove me wrong though, since I never claimed superiority on the subject.

https://tcglobal.com/bill-gates-the-entrepreneur-and-the-philanthropist/

 

[Deleted member 571007]

https://tcglobal.com/bill-gates-the-entrepreneur-and-the-philanthropist/

And what exactly does this prove other than him owning a large charity organization?

Yes, charities exist; and I'm not downplaying the genuine good that a lot of them do. But the fact of the matter is that even with them, people still fail to receive a lot of the actual help they could benefit from.

Take government run reliefs for example, they've become increasingly difficult to obtain, much less maintain even for people who fully qualify and genuinely need it. I can vouch for this wholeheartedly as I personally know people who've been denied things like disability, or even food stamps even when in sore need of them. Yes they help some people, but it's also done in such a way to make it exclusive and a royal pain to even get on the process to obtain.

Take food stamps as an example of which I've already stated: Yes they can help provide relief to people with low-incomes or in an impoverished state. However the circumstances in which said benefits apply are extremely fickle, and can leave people in genuine need unable to collect said benefits. A personal example I can pull from is that when I was younger, my family lived in genuine poverty, and we had to make a choice: Should my mother get a full-time job and not qualify for food-stamps, yet still not make enough money to be fed? Or take multiple part-time jobs just to take said benefits and still barely be able to pass by. The worst thing about the option we had to take (multiple part-times) is we often had to apply multiple times a year for said benefits to even be able to receive them, as many of the times we tried we would just be told to stop being "lazy" Yes, because working 3 jobs just to survive is being lazy.

Let me re-state this again: I am not trying to downplay their genuine uses and the good things charities and reliefs have done. I'm just saying that with the majority general corporations they value profit above anything else - and let's face it Charities aren't the run of the mill corporations, and relief programs help a lot less people than they'd lead you to believe.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

And what exactly does this prove other than him owning a large charity organization?

Yes, charities exist; and I'm not downplaying the genuine good that a lot of them do. But the fact of the matter is that even with them, people still fail to receive a lot of the actual help they could benefit from.

Take government run reliefs for example, they've become increasingly difficult to obtain, much less maintain even for people who fully qualify and genuinely need it. I can vouch for this wholeheartedly as I personally know people who've been denied things like disability, or even food stamps even when in sore need of them. Yes they help some people, but it's also done in such a way to make it exclusive and a royal pain to even get on the process to obtain.

Take food stamps as an example of which I've already stated: Yes they can help provide relief to people with low-incomes or in an impoverished state. However the circumstances in which said benefits apply are extremely fickle, and can leave people in genuine need unable to collect said benefits. A personal example I can pull from is that when I was younger, my family lived in genuine poverty, and we had to make a choice: Should my mother get a full-time job and not qualify for food-stamps, yet still not make enough money to be fed? Or take multiple part-time jobs just to take said benefits and still barely be able to pass by. The worst thing about the option we had to take (multiple part-times) is we often had to apply multiple times a year for said benefits to even be able to receive them, as many of the times we tried we would just be told to stop being "lazy" Yes, because working 3 jobs just to survive is being lazy.

Let me re-state this again: I am not trying to downplay their genuine uses and the good things charities and reliefs have done. I'm just saying that with the majority general corporations they value profit above anything else - and let's face it Charities aren't the run of the mill corporations, and relief programs help a lot less people than they'd lead you to believe.

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."-Joker (The Dark Knight - 2008)
In the end, the moral of economics is, that nothing is free, and if it was free, it had to be either subsidized or the distributor wants something from you in return.

 

[Deleted member 571007]

"If you're good at something, never do it for free."-Joker (The Dark Knight - 2008)
In the end, the moral of economics is, that nothing is free, and if it was free, it had to be either subsidized or the distributor wants something from you in return.

And this is true, no denying that. But the fact of the matter is that when it starts to negatively effect a large populous.. then there is most certainly a problem.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

And this is true, no denying that. But the fact of the matter is that when it starts to negatively effect a large populous.. then there is most certainly a problem.

people have the solutions, but there is no collective effort and desire to implement them due to the oligarchs trying to neuter the dissenters and activists. Thus we must concede and withdraw to the internet or to our isekais.

 

[Deleted member 571007]

people have the solutions, but there is no collective effort and desire to implement them due to the oligarchs trying to neuter the dissenters and activists.

And when people in the seat of power would rather relish in wealth, these solutions will never see fruition. Any such efforts will be given unsavory labels and then fed to the masses which have been conditioned to treat said labels with dissent. My point stands, while these practices continue: change is not likely.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

And when people in the seat of power would rather relish in wealth, these solutions will never see fruition. Any such efforts will be given unsavory labels and then fed to the masses which have been conditioned to treat said labels with dissent. My point stands, while these practices continue: change is not likely.

That is why escapism is so popular among Generation Z., because no matter where you go, the world is inadequate, that change we wanted residing in us all along. The borders that the oligarchs made due to their perceived insecurities are futile since we can go see anywhere in the world on youtube and see who people really are, and meet like-minded people to create our ideal world away from plutocrats in places like here. Honestly, we can just be content with that, right?

 

[Deleted member 571007]

That is why escapism is so popular among Generation Z., because no matter where you go, the world is inadequate, that change we wanted residing in us all along. The borders that the oligarchs made due to their perceived insecurities are futile since we can go see anywhere in the world on youtube and see who people really are, and meet like-minded people to create our ideal world away from plutocrats in places like here. Honestly, we can just be content with that, right?

If only it were actually that simple. Sure people can escape to their idealized version of the world - but that just opens a whole other can of worms that I don't even want to dive into.

Escapism is just actively avoiding the problem or putting a blind-fold over your eyes because you wish to remain blind to the atrocity of a world around you, while this may work for some short-term, there is definitely no benefit in doing so, as people who adhere to escapism tend to become infatuated by their delusions of grandeur, being blind to the shit show they live in.

While change may be inside of us, or attainably possible given that the masses unite - it's highly unlikely, either due to the people who actively oppose said views, go out of their way ignore them; or try to escape the reality of them, or like I said before are projected to the populous as the "group of evil".

Why be content with escapism if you're contributing to the issues you vehemently already oppose? I said change was improbable, not that it was a cause you should just simply ignore.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

Then

If only it were actually that simple. Sure people can escape to their idealized version of the world - but that just opens a whole other can of worms that I don't even want to dive into.

Escapism is just actively avoiding the problem or putting a blind-fold over your eyes because you wish to remain blind to the atrocity of a world around you, while this may work for some short-term, there is definitely no benefit in doing so, as people who adhere to escapism tend to become infatuated by their delusions of grandeur, being blind to the shit show they live in.

While change may be inside of us, or attainably possible given that the masses unite - it's highly unlikely, either due to the people who actively oppose said views, go out of their way ignore them; or try to escape the reality of them, or like I said before are projected to the populous as the "group of evil".

Why be content with escapism if you're contributing to the issues you vehemently already oppose? I said change was improbable, not that it was a cause you should just simply ignore.

Then let's just hope for the best for each other no matter what comes next, it was a pleasure discussing these matters with you. The world could be a lot better place if everyone were introverted by default, people would focus on improving the most important thing in their life, themselves. A lot of worm cans would remain closed when people stick to their own affairs and not interfere in matters irrelevant to them.

 

[Deleted member 571007]

Then
Then let's just hope for the best for each other no matter what comes next, it was a pleasure discussing these matters with you. The world could be a lot better place if everyone were introverted by default, people would focus on improving the most important thing in their life, themselves. A lot of worm cans would remain closed when people stick to their own affairs and not interfere in matters irrelevant to them.

Agreed, and thank you as well. I have to admit that it's nice to actually have civil conversations like these without being attacked by people who scarcely understand the subject. I like when my views are challenged logically, not by fallacy and hostility devoid of any reasoning. Anyways have a good night / day, whatever time it is for you.

 

[Deleted member 608654]

Agreed, and thank you as well. I have to admit that it's nice to actually have civil conversations like these without being attacked by people who scarcely understand the subject. I like when my views are challenged logically, not by fallacy and hostility devoid of any reasoning. Anyways have a good night / day, whatever time it is for you.

good night my friend.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

My point stands, while these practices continue: change is not likely.

- it's highly unlikely, either due to the people who actively oppose said views, go out of their way ignore them; or try to escape the reality of them, or like I said before are projected to the populous as the "group of evil".

You can view it that way. Or, you can choose to be hopeful.

I reject the idea that nothing will change soon. More and more people are experiencing the crumbling of this system. you have all these crisis, and they can't go on forever. I'm going to bring up jobs.

We value jobs so much. but why? (Sounds stupid to ask but just play with me here)
It's not because all jobs are valuable, take point again, advertising, it provides nothing back of value in total allocation of resources, or assists anyone, or being a landlord. Yet that's paid more, than say, the people who work in a coffee shop, or the people who stock shelves, or the people who clean the floors and bathrooms. But it's not also strictly because it needs to get done. Again, see landlords, who never add anything.



The answer is that we are told to value it, and threatened to abide to it, because that's how capitalists get money out of people. Workers are severely underpaid, it's the only way for a system to make this much profit for the select few. so to maintain it, everyone needs to be under threat constantly. And the system is designed to work like this. As if they didn't underpay their workers, they wouldn't make any profits and go even, and share holders would get angry. And if workers weren't under threat, they would demand better conditions.
And when there's nothing stopping them from taking directly, that's when you get your predatory healthcare systems, your landlords who raise rent every year by 10%

Another part is people don't hate their work. They hate their job.
What I mean is people don't hate the tasks that they are given. they hate every thing surrounding it. The managers, the constant time crunch, the work culture. ontop of the little pay many get. That same pay needed to live.

everything cycles around debts, and work. Treating humans beings like profit machines.

Because even debt, or putting someone in it, (with interest) is profitable.

Given the far right extreme actions resulting in fascist rhetoric rising. Left wing, the actual left (not moderate right aka democrats I mean actual leftism) is inventively going to surface. The only question is, are we prepared?

Because the fascist side of the far right has already peered it's ugly face. (bomb threats at children hospitals because of mat walsh claiming that a children's hospital was doing gender surgeries on kids. Even though such a process is never done until 21 due to complications from such a precedure and the body growing)
And capitalism itself, has already proved that it's willing to give into fascism. See Nazi Germany, Ford's antisemitism, Coca-Cola's fanta, and other products produced and effectively supporting Nazi Germany.

(while yes, the party Hitler came from was the socialist party. The part that often tries to get skewed or attempted to be, is that that party didn't like him, and he never followed through any actual leftist policy. and that party was the first to experience bloodshed. facism kills the first immediate opposition.)


It's also unlikely that this problem will be voted away. As Capitalism already has a strong grip on our government system. (bills 30% of the time get passed, regardless of popularity. Up until lobbying occurs, which then rises up to 70% chance of that bill passing)
Most that can be done is damage mitigation attempt whatever reworks that are possible, and look to move away from this system entirely.

It's incredibly grim looking at all of this. But if we want a better future, we have to keep our eyes on that future and keep hope so that when we are given the chance to do something, anything, we aren't depressed or defeated by then. Because it's a loss if you already mentally given up.

edit:
And this is really nice to finally have one single civil conversation, it's finally just something logical and reasonable to discuss.

 

[luisedgarf]

It's also unlikely that this problem will be voted away. As Capitalism already has a strong grip on our government system. (bills 30% of the time get passed, regardless of popularity. Up until lobbying occurs, which then rises up to 70% chance of that bill passing)
Most that can be done is damage mitigation attempt whatever reworks that are possible, and look to move away from this system entirely.

And, do you suggest a better system, outside communism?

 

[Deleted member 608654]

And capitalism itself, has already proved that it's willing to give into fascism. See Nazi Germany, Ford's antisemitism, Coca-Cola's fanta, and other products produced and effectively supporting Nazi Germany.

The defeated Kaisereich was the third Reichs mother, Modern America was its father. People followed Hitler because they were emotionally vulnerable after their postwar humiliation and his words were the antidote for their malaise. Why didn't America prevent such a catastrophe from happening before it was too late by being an impartial mediator of the conflict instead of letting France and Britain's spite degrade the treaty of Versailles?
America is like Mysterio from Spiderman: Far from Home, creating monsters so he could "defeat" them and play the hero.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

And, do you suggest a better system, outside communism?

I'd assume socialism would fall under the same category
If so. No then.
Libertarians (US's libertarians. Since they don't mean the samething across seas)
Just want to deregulate the goverment as they believe the goverment is the main problem. When it's just one of the many symptoms. I obviously don't need to explain why capitalism wouldn't work. As it created these problems. It's like saying using more fire to put out the fire. It's not going to work nor very effective.
I don't entirely like the concept of just staying with socialism (I could live with it) the problem with that though is that you still have a society based in class, ie, the goverment and the governed. Unless you somehow manage a direct democracy system and refuse to elect anyone. Which infrastructure wise would be a challenge. However there still aspects of capitalism left over as well. Sooo. Invetibly that corrupting hand will act. However would be the best most likely outcome.

Lets also get communism cleared up for a second. Classless stateless society. This means no money (our conception of trade would have to revaluated and practically the whole world would have to agree with it. Since trade difficulties. Unless there is some bs currency conversion happening)
And operating under "provide what you can take what you need"
A lot of right wingers try to conflate it with authortianism. Which is just false. They cite Marxist Leninism aka lenins bs interpertation of Marx. Which if you ask most people who would be in favor of communism, they heavily hate because they are anarcho communists.
To explain the anarcho part briefly.
Capitalism can be authoritarian/leaning on a strong goverment.
Or have no goverment at all (anarchist) (except well. Companies would act as the new goverment but whatever) aka what american culture calls libertarianism.
Apply this to now communism. You can have a authortian version (stalinism. Which I despize. Since you created a class with a military force)
Or what most modern communist prefer, as close to no goverment as possible. And disagreeing with Marx's belief that you need a temporary "vangaurd" state. And tweaking Marx's belief of no private property. Mostly in the sense of inteperting it as "no company private property. But PERSONAL property is different and not in the open)
I fall (if it isn't obvious) the later category.
If you got an idea go ahead and suggest it. If it's ancap (anarcho capitalism/Libertarian) I can give a full explanation as to why that would just not work in DM.

Tl;Dr you'll just invetibly end up with another top to bottom hierarchy with ceo's being the new "government" enforcing a military through spending to keep people working.

 

[lolcatzuru]

Much of capitalism, which is buying things to appease others and to further your own selfish desires, is incompatible with this belief. Instead of buying the latest device which would only give you little additional utility, why not devote the money to bringing remote and impoverished fast and reliable internet, this could provide a much bigger benefit to a wider group of people.

because its harder to control someone when they have the things they need.