Las Vegas Shooting

[Quantumcat]

*facepalm*
It's very clear you are not an American. Please do not speak for others or generalize such a large country that's so diverse in culture, thinking, and beliefs. Additionally, you are conflating patriotism with ignorance (your words: "brainwash"ing). I'm very patriotic yet I'll unapologetically call out this country's crap. This isn't a zero sum game.

You're right, not everyone. I have yet to see someone outside the US defend the crazy stuff that happens there though.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

You're right, not everyone. I have yet to see someone outside the US defend the crazy stuff that happens there though.

It's because of the 2nd Amendment that guarantees the right to bear arms. Defense of gun ownership is enshrined in our most fundamental governing doctrine. No one is defending the crazy things that have happened. I haven't seen anyone "defend" what happened in Las Vegas. However, there is a separate debate around the 2nd amendment occurring right now in our hyper-charged political climate, and some do see the right to own firearms a right of citizens, the chief argument being self defense. I'm not going to argue the merits of that argument right now, rather I'm trying to show you why people do defend the right to own guns. And again, no one is defending horrible atrocities like Las Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, etc.

 

[Lacius]

It makes sense that the people talking crap about the USA are all outside it. The people inside are brainwashed to believe the USA is the greatest and it is OK that all these awful things happen because they have "freedom". When they are told that all these awful things are not normal, by people on the outside, they stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalala".

According to Pew, roughly 29% of Americans say the USA is the best country in the world, when asked if it's the greatest, one of the greatest, or worse than other countries. Among people 65+ years old or politically conservative, that number is 44% and 47% respectively.

It's because of the 2nd Amendment that guarantees the right to bear arms. Defense of gun ownership is enshrined in our most fundamental governing doctrine.

That's a relatively new view.

No one is defending the crazy things that have happened. I haven't seen anyone "defend" what happened in Las Vegas. However, there is a separate debate around the 2nd amendment occurring right now in our hyper-charged political climate, and some do see the right to own firearms a right of citizens, the chief argument being self defense. I'm not going to argue the merits of that argument right now, rather I'm trying to show you why people do defend the right to own guns. And again, no one is defending horrible atrocities like Las Vegas, Orlando, Sandy Hook, etc.

You're not defending atrocities, but you're arguably helping to enable them. It's objectively true that the kind of gun regulation that has been proposed reduces the frequency of these kinds of atrocities.

 

[Kioku]

According to Pew, roughly 29% of Americans say the USA is the best country in the world, when asked if it's the greatest, one of the greatest, or worse than other countries. Among people 65+ years old or politically conservative, that number is 44% and 47% respectively.


That's a relatively new view.


You're not defending atrocities, but you're arguably helping to enable them. It's objectively true that the kind of gun regulation that has been proposed reduces the frequency of these kinds of atrocities.

If it's objectively true, I'm assuming you have verifiable proof.

I can't be damned to care for gun control due to one belief. Criminals and laws don't mix. Doesn't mean I'm 100% against it. Just can't see how it'll fix the issue. Considering a nice amount of massacres in the past couple of years involved a vehicle.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

You're not defending atrocities, but you're arguably helping to enable them. It's objectively true that the kind of gun regulation that has been proposed reduces the frequency of these kinds of atrocities.

Right, and that's the crux of the current debate. I don't know about 'objective' given how varied the proposals have been and how much is just theoretical, but yeah, big debate over regulation.

 

[Lacius]

If it's objectively true, I'm assuming you have verifiable proof.

I can't be damned to care for gun control due to one belief. Criminals and laws don't mix. Doesn't mean I'm 100% against it. Just can't see how it'll fix the issue. Considering a nice amount of massacres in the past couple of years involved a vehicle.

I don't have the energy to have this conversation every time a gun massacre happens. It's just too frequent. Here's a starting point for your presumably genuine curiosity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control#Studies

Right, and that's the crux of the current debate. I don't know about 'objective' given how varied the proposals have been and how much is just theoretical, but yeah, big debate over regulation.

We have data on the effects of specific gun regulations.

 

[Kioku]

I don't have the energy to have this conversation every time a gun massacre happens. It's just too frequent. Here's a starting point for your presumably genuine curiosity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control#Studies


We have data on the effects of specific gun regulations.

Already reading about mostly suicide rates.. This will get nowhere, fast. If you can't be assed to have the conversation, then don't start. Not difficult.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

We have data on the effects of specific gun regulations.

I'm yet to read up on gun control and I'm currently far too busy to care, but I see the end goal as being to reduce as much crime as possible. I'm for anything that helps achieve that end.

 

[Kioku]

I'm yet to read up on gun control and I'm currently far too busy to care, but I see the end goal as being to reduce as much crime as possible. I'm for anything that helps achieve that end.

Can't say gun control will fix crazy. May or may not have an impact on long term numbers, so that's something.

 

[Lacius]

Already reading about mostly suicide rates.. This will get nowhere, fast. If you can't be assed to have the conversation, then don't start. Not difficult.

I don't know about you, but I don't disparage suicide rates as if they don't matter to the discussion. Second, the article addresses homicides and mass shootings. If you don't want to keep reading, Control-F is your friend.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

Can't say gun control will fix crazy. May or may not have an impact on long term numbers, so that's something.

Maybe! I'd like to look at the facts and data for myself before forming an opinion so for now call me neutral.

 

[Kioku]

Maybe! I'd like to look at the facts and data for myself before forming an opinion so for now call me neutral.

Kind of where I'm sitting. Grinds my gears when the diehards scream "GUN CONTROL" when things happen though. Mostly a personal problem, but yeah..

 

[Lacius]

Kind of where I'm sitting. Grinds my gears when the diehards scream "GUN CONTROL" when things happen though. Mostly a personal problem, but yeah..

Aside from exhaustion, why wouldn't we continue to advocate for that which would do well to reduce the frequency of these attacks? Anything else would be complacency.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

Kind of where I'm sitting. Grinds my gears when the diehards scream "GUN CONTROL" when things happen though. Mostly a personal problem, but yeah..

Yeah, I'm honestly tired of the same circlejerk every time one of these atrocities happens. Half the people go "GUN CONTROL" and the other half retort "SELF DEFENSE" and then everyone's like "Congress needs to do something!" "We can't let this happen again!" and then nothing gets done and everyone's time is wasted and it repeats all over again. I don't expect this latest circlejerk to end up with any results, either so I'm not even bothering.

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Aside from exhaustion, why wouldn't we continue to advocate for that which would do well to reduce the frequency of these attacks? Anything else would be complacency.

I wish something, anything would get done. We just keep goin' round and round and round...

 

[Lacius]

Yeah, I'm honestly tired of the same circlejerk every time one of these atrocities happens. Half the people go "GUN CONTROL" and the other half retort "SELF DEFENSE" and then everyone's like "Congress needs to do something!" "We can't let this happen again!" and then nothing gets done and everyone's time is wasted and it repeats all over again. I don't expect this latest circlejerk to end up with any results, either so I'm not even bothering.

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I wish something, anything would get done. We just keep goin' round and round and round...

That doesn't mean the people shouting "gun control" are the problem. If anything, they're the only ones doing anything right.

 

[aykay55]

This is quite strange. 3 Americans arguing about whether the US is the best country in the world. @Quantumcat Hope you realize how not every American is brainwashed.

 

[Lacius]

This is quite strange. 3 Americans arguing about whether the US is the best country in the world. @Quantumcat Hope you realize how not every American is brainwashed.

It's unlikely @Quantumcat meant every American was brainwashed. More likely, she was just addressing the very real disease that is American nationalism.

 

[HaloEliteLegend]

That doesn't mean the people shouting "gun control" are the problem. If anything, they're the only ones doing anything right.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with the people who are trying. I think I'm speaking out of how incredibly weary I am right now about the mountain of work and studies I have pending this month... Talk to me again late November and I'll likely be a bit more optimistic, haha.

 

[slaphappygamer]

What? You have to be 18 to even buy a BB gun. Nice try though.

If you want to leagally buy one. You also have to be 21 to drink.

 

[aykay55]

If you want to leagally buy one. You also have to be 21 to drink.

Doesn't matter cause parents/guardians are legally allowed to give their children of any age a gun. You have to have a guardian by law if you're under the age of 18, so you can't buy one but can use one. They are responsible for them and have to supervise them at all times, and responsible for any and all damage by the child. Ever seen the episode: