Logic behind Christianity?

[Foxi4]

It's not fair because it's not true. It's been mentioned earlier that people unaware of the gospel, and thus of their Original Sin shall be judged by means of The Natural Law. Non-believers are not automatically sent to hell, that's a retarded idea of zelaous priests that has nothing to do with the Catholic faith whatsoever.

And I guess Popes have nothing to do with the Catholic faith as well? In you interpretation it's not true but by your own declerations of what you believe you aren't a Catholic.

QUOTEA child that dies before it's even capable of commiting sin applies to this principle, as it does not understand the gospel. That said, it's also too young to commit any sin at all. Thus, it goes to heaven. If it was baptised before death, the "issue" is actually non-existant - baptising cleans off the Original Sin.

Yes but if it didn't have a baptism before it died? And come on, this is the church that won't allow stillborn babies to be buried properly because they aren't alive yet but won't allow abortion of even contraception because it's killing a human.

It's not my own fantasy by no means. Provide me sufficient ammout of excerpts saying that a child which died before being baptised is sure to go to hell, much like I provided you with excerts that such a person shall not earlier in the thread. Like it was said, Jesus as Judge is entirely entitled to make exceptions in "Special Cases", and I'd say this would be a special case indeed.

Contraception is an open subject in the catholic church even as we speak. Abortion is obviously killing a person, contraception like condoms and such... not so much. The very idea of contraception wasn't even "there" yet when religious texts were being written, hence the only real "text" I could apply here is the text about Onan's Sin, which was about onanism (masturbation) in the sense of wasting semen being a sin, however we all know that it's obselete by hundreds of years.

It all goes down to your own conscience, really.

 

[ProtoKun7]

Like I said, "hell" as most people think of is just the grave. A child that dies goes to the grave...because it's dead. Nothing happens there. You just don't exist.

If we were all descended from the the same two people, surely we would all have the same skin colour...
*facepalm*

If not, what kind of God curses innocent babies to an eternity of torture? Actually, don't answer that, the same God who murdered innocent first borns in Egypt I guess.
There is no eternal torture. Nor does God ever murder. He has the right to take away life of whomever is deserving of it, because he...you know, made them in the first place. Humans don't.
To suggest otherwise is like me building a huge city out of Lego and then you coming along telling me I'm not allowed to take anything apart.

QUOTE(cwstjdenobs @ Jul 13 2011, 07:38 PM)

I'd personally say there can be no science in a book written at least 6 hundred years before science started to truly exist.

Science has always existed. People just haven't had a grasp on it. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
(Funny enough, that could apply to other points in this thread too.)
So could you explain away verses which suggest that the Earth is round and "hanging upon nothing" (i.e. floating in space), all written centuries before Aristotle was born who thought the universe was made up of concentric circles made of ether and the stars were stuck to them?

 

[Zetta_x]

I have read over and over again of people thinking they know what it was like 2000 years ago and what is sad is they compare modern communication/technology with ideas thousands of years ago.

People several thousand years ago may not have had any form of communication with the rest of the world. We pretty much do not even know what the average mindset was like 2000 years ago.

 

[ShadowFyre]

How about we all take up Apatheism and call it a day?

 

[Magmorph]

Science has always existed. People just haven't had a grasp on it. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
(Funny enough, that could apply to other points in this thread too.)
So could you explain away verses which suggest that the Earth is round and "hanging upon nothing" (i.e. floating in space), all written centuries before Aristotle was born who thought the universe was made up of concentric circles made of ether and the stars were stuck to them?

Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

The idea of a spherical earth was around for centuries before the Bible.
The Bible never once claims the earth is a sphere, it claims it's a circle. It also mentions it having 4 corners. Even if the word is translated as meaning sphere, the earth is not a sphere. I don't think the Bible was being any more literal about the earth being a circle than it was about claiming it has 4 corners. The earth is neither hanging on nothing nor floating.

What about the countless other passages that directly contradict what we have learned from science? Do you choose to disregard those or perhaps interpret them differently?

 

[ProtoKun7]

Science has always existed. People just haven't had a grasp on it. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
(Funny enough, that could apply to other points in this thread too.)
So could you explain away verses which suggest that the Earth is round and "hanging upon nothing" (i.e. floating in space), all written centuries before Aristotle was born who thought the universe was made up of concentric circles made of ether and the stars were stuck to them?
Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

The Bible never once claims the earth is a sphere, it claims it's a circle. It also mentions it having 4 corners. I don't think the Bible was being any more literal about the earth being a circle than it was about claiming it has 4 corners. The earth is neither hanging on nothing or floating.

What about the countless other passages that directly contradict what we have learned from science? Do you choose to disregard those or perhaps interpret them differently?

Figuratively, a sphere is a circle when looked at from only one side, and nowadays we still have metaphors like "the four corners of the earth", meaning every part of it, not literal corners. Four corners shows a completeness.

Additionally, the original Hebrew word translated "circle" can also be translated "sphere".
I bet you don't use terms like sunset either because the sun doesn't actually "set"?

QUOTE(Magmorph @ Jul 14 2011, 07:47 AM)

The earth is neither hanging on nothing or floating.

Tell that to NASA. I certainly don't see any sea turtles or elephants holding the planet up like people used to think.

 

[koimayeul]

I've looked into this before, but it seems that whenever I get close to believing, something comes up and makes me say "wait, what?" and puts me back to square one.So, is it possible to be a Christian if you're a logical thinker AND have not been raised with religion?

You can ask yourself the same about Chrisitanity, Islam, Budhism or whatever, logical thinking relies on Reason and religon relies on Faith.. it is up to each and every of us alive on this Earth to face the dilemma and chose for ourselves depending of everyone personal sensibility on the matter. End of story.

On a side note i shouldn't have said "ask yourself" but maybe "ask AWAY" cuz seeing a 300 post long 'blog" with only 3 miserable post of you OP on the "debate" makes it look like a free controversy thead and you, Sir, makes you look like a clown. (Pyrospark.. okay i get it)

I bid you farewell on this obvious statement!

 

[spinal_cord]

Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

Science as a word only existed since it's invention, but the study of our surroundings in order to figure them out has gone on since life itself. Every intelligent organism exhibits a curiosity about it's surroundings and as 'intelligent' can be used to describe every single creature in the entire univers that is capable of thought, science very likely pre-dates our own planet by billions of years.


QUOTE(koimayeul @ Jul 14 2011, 08:54 AM) it is up to each and every of us alive on this Earth to face the dilemma and chose for ourselves depending of everyone personal sensibility on the matter. End of story.

I disagree. Many religious people were indoctrinated into their 'chosen' religion from birth. they are told that the ancient values that their parents follow are the only correct ones and that all other religions will land you in eternal hell. There is no choice involved, people follow these religions because they are given no choice, do what 'God' says or be tortured forever. the best part is, that these punishments come from a loving forgiving god, coincidentally after you die so no proof need be offered.

 

[Magmorph]

Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

Science as a word only existed since it's invention, but the study of our surroundings in order to figure them out has gone on since life itself. Every intelligent organism exhibits a curiosity about it's surroundings and as 'intelligent' can be used to describe every single creature in the entire univers that is capable of thought, science very likely pre-dates our own planet by billions of years.

Science is not an abstract concept. It is a man made method of collecting data and applying that data. A simple curiosity with the world is far from scientific.

 

[spinal_cord]

Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

Science as a word only existed since it's invention, but the study of our surroundings in order to figure them out has gone on since life itself. Every intelligent organism exhibits a curiosity about it's surroundings and as 'intelligent' can be used to describe every single creature in the entire univers that is capable of thought, science very likely pre-dates our own planet by billions of years.

Science is not an abstract concept. It is a man made method of collecting data and applying that data. A simple curiosity with the world is far from scientific.

So are you suggesting that, with all of the billions of planets in a universe that is billions of years old, science has only existed for a few thousand years and can only have been utilized by humans on Earth?

 

[Foxi4]

Science has only existed since it was invented. It certainly has not always existed any more than a book already existed before it was written.

Science as a word only existed since it's invention, but the study of our surroundings in order to figure them out has gone on since life itself. Every intelligent organism exhibits a curiosity about it's surroundings and as 'intelligent' can be used to describe every single creature in the entire univers that is capable of thought, science very likely pre-dates our own planet by billions of years.

Science is not an abstract concept. It is a man made method of collecting data and applying that data. A simple curiosity with the world is far from scientific.

Alright then, how about Ancient Egyptian scribes studying the solar system, or the Mayan's accurate calendar. All before Christ, all "science". The fact that the term "science" did not exist doesn't mean that nobody performed it. It's like saying that water did not exist before someone came up with "H2O". Your point is moot.