Minneapolis to Abolish the Police

[SG854]

Nine Minneapolis City Council members announced plans Sunday to disband the city’s police department

Minneapolis City Council members say they plan to vote to disband city's police department

Minneapolis lawmakers vow to disband police department in historic move

 

[AmandaRose]

The title is totally misleading. They are not getting rid of the Police. They are getting rid of the department that runs the police and replacing it with a new one.

 

[SG854]

The title is totally misleading. They are not getting rid of the Police. They are getting rid of the department that runs the police and replacing it with a new one.

Disband, Abolish, Dismantle means the same thing. If they disband the police department they disband the police.


What is the alternative model? It says searching for non police solutions. Having everday people police their own neighborhoods? Says medical health experts to jump in.

 

[UltraSUPRA]

The same people who want to abolish the police are the same people who want the police to take our guns and keep us locked in our own homes.

 

[ThatGamingAirman]

Disband, Abolish means the same thing. If they disband the police department they disband the police.


What is the alternative model? It says searching for non police solutions. Having people police their own neighborhoods?

No what she meant is there’s a department that runs the police department thus not making it the same thing.

 

[SG854]

No what she meant is there’s a department that runs the police department thus not making it the same thing.

Isn't that reforming the department? There's no need to abolish it if all you are doing is to tweak it and change how the police is run. That would be a unnecessary step to abolish it.

But these articles are taking about abolishing. They wouldn't use abolish if they don't intend it unless they are being misleading. And what is the alternative they are replacing it with?

 

[Fugelmir]

Who's gonna issue summons for the court? Or make sure anyone goes to court? Abolish the courts!

 

[ThatGamingAirman]

Isn't that reforming the department? There's no need to abolish it if all you are doing is to tweak it and change how the police is run. That would be a unnecessary step to abolish it.

But these articles are taking about abolishing. They wouldn't use abolish if they don't intend it unless they are being misleading. And what is the alternative they are replacing it with?

Idk I was just explaining what she meant

 

[AmandaRose]

Isn't that reforming the department? There's no need to abolish it if all you are doing is to tweak it and change how the police is run. That would be a unnecessary step to abolish it.

But these articles are taking about abolishing. They wouldn't use abolish if they don't intend it unless they are being misleading. And what is the alternative they are replacing it with?

They are being misleading


Lisa Bender, the Minneapolis city council president has said the following.

Most 911 calls are related to medical emergencies and mental health problems, which will be prioritized in funding.

We will be diverting some police funding to treatment services such as mental health counselors and drug addiction experts. While a smaller police force will remain, it won’t be the default body interacting with the community at the time of crisis.

 

[SG854]

@Teslas Fate

It seems according to this article they really are going to abolish the police and replace it with community driven policing/programs.

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-c...invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/

 

[MFDC12]

Disband, Abolish, Dismantle means the same thing.

This is incorrect. Abolishing police is very specific part of any part of (actual) leftism (like left of socdem) and it means exactly that : abolish the police. No police at whatsoever. For example, in anarcho-[insert whatever variation of anarchy here]/true communism police would be replaced by members of communities looking out for each other. In this case, they are dismantling, as AmandaRose said - which is similar to what Camden, NJ did and reworked the department from the ground up + retraining/demilitarizing them.

 

[ThatGamingAirman]

@Teslas Fate

It seems according to this article they really are going to abolish the police and replace it with community driven policing/programs.

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-c...invest-in-proven-community-led-public-safety/

Idk I’m not really worried about it as it’s not my state I just wanted to explain the post by @AmandaRose

 

[UltraSUPRA]

I found a meme.

 

[ThatGamingAirman]

I found a meme.

And that sadly might be how it plays out

 

[SG854]

They are being misleading


Lisa Bender, the Minneapolis city council president has said the following.

Most 911 calls are related to medical emergencies and mental health problems, which will be prioritized in funding.

We will be diverting some police funding to treatment services such as mental health counselors and drug addiction experts. While a smaller police force will remain, it won’t be the default body interacting with the community at the time of crisis.

The article says having a medical expert rather then a cop to come in, but I dont understand the dismantle part. Why not just say reform? Like we've always done before. Reform has worked in reducing killings in urban areas, and in rural areas where no reform happend cop killings increased.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

This is incorrect. Abolishing police is very specific part of any part of (actual) leftism (like left of socdem) and it means exactly that : abolish the police. No police at whatsoever. For example, in anarcho-[insert whatever variation of anarchy here]/true communism police would be replaced by members of communities looking out for each other. In this case, they are dismantling, as AmandaRose said - which is similar to what Camden, NJ did and reworked the department from the ground up + retraining/demilitarizing them.

The thing is though even though their dictionary definitions might not be the same, everyday people use those terms interchangeably. And its based on how everyday people use terms and not what the dictionary says. An everyday person won't know the difference between the two. And I don't know what their intent is on what they mean, and that matters most is their intent on what they mean.

And the way the article is written it seems that the people of minneapolis want to get rid of the police and want a community driven policing instead. Family and neighbors instead to do the policing. And it seems they are giving what the angry rioting mob wants based on their comments.

"We're not going to tomorrow all the sudden have nobody for you to call for help. There will be thoughtful and intentional work that's done, research engagement, learning that happens in a transition that will happen over time," Cunningham said.

Many people have asked, in this visionary future with no police, "Who do you call when there's no 911?" One of the speakers on Sunday said it would be family and neighbors."

 

[MFDC12]

The thing is though even though their dictionary definitions might not be the same, everyday people use those terms interchangeably. And its based on how everyday people use terms and not what the dictionary says. An everyday person won't know the difference between the two. And I don't know what their intent is on what they mean, and that matters most is their intent on what they mean.

And the way the article is written it seems that the people of minneapolis want to get rid of the police and want a community driven policing instead. Family and neighbors instead to do the policing. And it seems they are giving what the angry rioting mob wants based on their comments.

"We're not going to tomorrow all the sudden have nobody for you to call for help. There will be thoughtful and intentional work that's done, research engagement, learning that happens in a transition that will happen over time," Cunningham said.

Many people have asked, in this visionary future with no police, "Who do you call when there's no 911?" One of the speakers on Sunday said it would be family and neighbors."

I don't know, I've never heard them used interchangeably ever personally outside these articles, which I don't put a lot of weight into because so many places get leftism wrong (I mean, misinformation about antifa is rampant). Not saying people don't - just explaining there is a difference not even going by dictionary definitions.

All I am saying, coming as a leftist, the actual differences between dismantling and abolishing are incredibly different and what is going to happen in Minneapolis is, as far as I am aware, is the same thing as what happened in Camden and getting input from the community. I'd be happy if that were the case if truly goes to a community-based system though, and I have been wrong before (as everyone has).

 

[SG854]

I don't know, I've never heard them used interchangeably ever personally outside these articles, which I don't put a lot of weight into because so many places get leftism wrong (I mean, misinformation about antifa is rampant). Not saying people don't - just explaining there is a difference not even going by dictionary definitions.

All I am saying, coming as a leftist, the actual differences between dismantling and abolishing are incredibly different and what is going to happen in Minneapolis is, as far as I am aware, is the same thing as what happened in Camden and getting input from the community. I'd be happy if that were the case if truly goes to a community-based system though, and I have been wrong before (as everyone has).

Let's ignore what's the actual intent is and focus on if abolishing the police is a good idea.

What do you mean by community based system? As in get rid of the police completely and people police their own communities? Or still have a police, reduced/and or reformed, but have medical experts and psychologists and the like have much more presence like what @AmandaRose is saying. And why do you think its a better idea for whatever you mean?

 

[Viri]

Erm, Camden disbanded their police force because the city was fucking broke. They re-hired most of the police officers they fired, and paid them a lot less, some of them had to share their cars, lol. Since they killed the police force, they killed their union, so they were able to reduce how much the police were making. The formed a new union, and now they have even MORE cops, lol.


They pretty much union busted them, so they can pay them a lot less, and thus hire more officers. And yeah, I've been to Camden a few times, I would not recommended going there, unless you like Aquariums.

Also, if I recall, the citizens had no say in this. Imagine living in the most dangerous city in the country, and waking up to find out the city just voted to axe the police force, lol.

 

[Jayinem81]

Hippy 1 Yeah, we'll have one guy who like, who like, makes bread. A-and one guy who like, l-looks out for other people's safety.
Stan You mean like a baker and a cop?
HIppy 2 No no, can't you imagine a place where people live together and like, provide services for each other in exchange for their services?
Kyle Yeah, it's called a town.

 

[MFDC12]

Let's ignore what's the actual intent is and focus on if abolishing the police is a good idea.

What do you mean by community based system? As in get rid of the police completely and people police their own communities? Or still have a police, reduced/and or reformed, but have medical experts and psychologists and the like have much more presence like what @AmandaRose is saying. And why do you think its a better idea for whatever you mean?

Oh sorry, I guess I misunderstood the intention of your reply.

So, short answer: yes but, long answer:
In a capitalist society, it gets a bit iffier. In a leftist society, people would be armed (Marx famously said that the proletariat must be armed with guns and stuff) and a community will be there for everyones protection + help, there would be no police force. Like I mentioned, TOTAL abolition. The cops first job is first and foremost to protect private property, but also follow the laws (just or unjust) - let's say in a totally post-capitalist world, true communism, a moneyless/stateless society - there would be less crime. For instance, nothing to rob/burgle/steal/extort/launder/whatever, all peoples needs will be met - food/water/healthcare, there won't be drug charges (keep in mind, almost 50% of the US prison system are in for drug offenses) based on laws that heavily affect minority populations, no borders means no "illegal" immigration. What you are essentially left with are rape/sexual assault and the like/murder. A lot of leftists theorized these things can be prevented by having everyones needs met and more access to safety nets/systems to catch these problems before they happen. And if it does, the general consensus is no prisons. The general consensus is that all communities will differ in punishment, be it true rehabilitation (our prison system is absolutely not made for rehabilitation as it stands), expulsion, etc. There would be still detectives since their role can be separated from the police force itself, to help track down who did things.

But that isn't the world we live in. In a totally non utopian point of view in our current capitalist society, I just don't know what it would look like. I think a good chunk of laws are unjust and I think all drug laws, for instance, should be abolished - but with these laws in place, it's not like a community run police force wouldn't run into these issues that heavily target POC (as an example). I think there needs to be nationwide reform on policing, policies and completely do away with the systematic racism that is inherent in our current system and demilitarizing the police nationwide would be an excellent start. Make it harder from bad cops to get their jobs back or job hop if they get terminated. Make it impossible for good cops reporting the bad cops to get silenced or in trouble. It absolutely has to be nationwide for literally anything to change though, either abolishing or dismantling and reforming. I think it's worthy to note that police as we know it is an incredibly recent invention, and before that things were typically held up to communities/individuals.

Some reading:
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing (free ebook for now btw)
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/213837/are-prisons-obsolete-by-angela-y-davis/
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/who-do-you-serve-who-do-you-protect-alicia-garza/1122750162

edit:
Just to point out, I do think more medical experts (especially psychiatrists) would absolutely be a good thing too and if I didn't present a clear enough picture - yes I think abolishing police would be good.