Muslim & Atheist Debate, Interesting!

[invaderyoyo]

Indeed that is true. Should have picked an idea that is more challenging to prove as an example. Since even by looking at how days and season work, such an assumption could have been made, I think.

That's why I'm asking why you'd treat religion like it's a special idea.

 

[Slattz]

Just gonna drop in my opinion:
I personally don't believe in any god or 'being' or the such. Imo (mainly about the Roman Catholic church), if there is no actual proof of a 'God' being real except some book that has been altered many times to suit whoever, then there is no 'God'. People that say they speak to angels don't count either. Plus out of all the planets in the galaxy (not even universe), why would 'God' pick such a puny,worthless planet such as Earth? If he created the human race, he could have easily made the human race to adapt to a better planet, etc. And I wont even get into how the bible basically says there was no such thing as dinosaurs or anything before the human race (I'm talking about evolution, just a hint for the slow people here). There's a thing called carbon dating & fossils

This is just my opinion, I'd rather people not shove their religion down my throat in a reply, I'm happy as I am thanks.

Also, inb4 thread gets deleted/locked.

 

[jimbo13]

For your information, Christianity was reformed, and the evidence to that are multiple versions of the bible itself. There is far more toleration than there was back in the dark ages. Islam is also currently living its own version of the dark age, and while many of these acts committed under the name of the religion is proven in the Quran and sharia law, many muslims themselves do not necessarily agree with these kind of measures.

That's right Christianity did reform, And Muslims are living in the Dark ages and why they have no business living in the modern west.

And if so many disagree, maybe they need to get off their ass and fix it. Everyone else in the world has, maybe CAIR could devote half the time they spend attacking people who complain about them. If they can hold a celebratory rally when a Jihadist kills people they can hold a rally to stop it but I wont be holding my breath waiting for that.

 

[MadMageKefka]

I don't call it special treatment.
A lot of things in science has been subject to the sentence I mentioned until an evidence of a particular idea was found, where the sentence no longer applies because the proof of said idea completely discourages arguments that flat out counters it. For example: the fact that the Earth is spherical.

A lot of religious ideas in how nature works has been dismissed because of these advancements. Even inside religious communities.

As for a super entity that laid down the law on how nature works, well, there are no proof of it existing, but there are no proof of it not existing.
That is why I don't bother arguing with anyone else about it. Because it always ends off in a stalemate.

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I ignored it because it was not relevant on the matter.

Carbon dating? It is a real thing.
Evolution? Hell yeah, it has been proven and it is easy to prove to someone using bacteria, antibiotics and a petri dish.
So what was your point?

My point is that those parts of that religion are wrong, people who think that "oh, its a different time now..." So... Are they saying that god was wrong back then? Adam and Eve arent real? Do you see my point yet? No one can agree on anything, and once something in religion is disproven, people just say "so what? The rest of it is still true." Thats bullshit. People are just stubborn and gullible. God is supposedly infallible, so why was he wrong?

 

[insidexdeath]

That's right Christianity did reform, And Muslims are living in the Dark ages and why they have no business living in the modern west.

And if so many disagree, maybe they need to get off their ass and fix it. Everyone else in the world has, maybe CAIR could devote half the time they spend attacking people who complain about them. If they can hold a celebratory rally when a Jihadist kills people they can hold a rally to stop it but I wont be holding my breath waiting for that.

That's because people CAN hold a celebratory rally, but others cannot protest against it without getting killed. I mentioned dictatorship being a factor in this in my previous comment.

The difference between us and them is that we do have a freedom of speech, and criticism is healthy. On their end, neither freedom of speech or criticism is allowed, unless you want to be killed.

 

[smf]

We know humans existed long before Christianity says they did.

"Christianity" isn't so easily defeated.

http://www.icr.org/article/how-old-earth-according-bible/

"Of course the genealogies only begin with the creation of Adam, so the question of time before Adam remains. As has been well noted on these pages, the six days of Creation Week must be of the same length as our days. We recognize, however, that the Hebrew word yom, translated "day," can have a variety of meanings, including an indefinite period of time. Thus, some have suggested that these six days might then be equated with the billions of years claimed by geologists."

Personally if the bible is open to interpretation then I think that it fails as the word of god.

Supposedly Adam was 930 when he died.

 

[MadMageKefka]

"Christianity" isn't so easily defeated.

http://www.icr.org/article/how-old-earth-according-bible/

"Of course the genealogies only begin with the creation of Adam, so the question of time before Adam remains. As has been well noted on these pages, the six days of Creation Week must be of the same length as our days. We recognize, however, that the Hebrew word yom, translated "day," can have a variety of meanings, including an indefinite period of time. Thus, some have suggested that these six days might then be equated with the billions of years claimed by geologists."

Personally if the bible is open to interpretation then I think that it fails as the word of god.

Wow, more changes to the views on the bible to use as an excuse as to why science says its full of shit. What a shock. Never seen this before. /sarcasm

I like the last part of what you said, though. Thats basically my point.

 

[jimbo13]

That's because people CAN hold a celebratory rally, but others cannot protest against it without getting killed. I mentioned dictatorship being a factor in this in my previous comment.

The difference between us and them is that we do have a freedom of speech, and criticism is healthy. On their end, neither freedom of speech or criticism is allowed, unless you want to be killed.

Quit denying them basic agency in the choices they make as a culture, they aren't children or MR.


When given Democracy, as a culture they reject it. Muslims in the U.K routinely protest Democracy.

 

[grossaffe]

I like how everyone ignored my post about carbon dating. Hurr durr science. No evidence.... What a joke.

Well for one, there are many who accept evolution and religion. Also, you should switch your argument to a more general radiological dating since carbon dating is but one of the dating methods we use and is only really effective to about 50,000 years.

 

[osaka35]

Ofc it can. This is why I said on this matter of religion, not on every other ideas.

This creed is mostly applied when there is no proof of something disapproving its existence. Not when something is flat out wrong. (I.E, the existence of a square planet, for example.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

imagine a man claiming that there is a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars. The teapot is too small for us to see, and, since we can’t journey out into space to find it, there’s no way to show that the teapot isn’t actually there. There is no evidence of its existence. That doesn't we couldn't somehow find it, but there is zero reason to give the thought weight or merit. It is false until proven otherwise, not "well, it could be, why not".

 

[gamefan5]

My point is that those parts of that religion are wrong, people who think that "oh, its a different time now..." So... Are they saying that god was wrong back then? Adam and Eve arent real? Do you see my point yet? No one can agree on anything, and once something in religion is disproven, people just say "so what? The rest of it is still true." Thats bullshit. People are just stubborn and gullible. God is supposedly infallible, so why was he wrong?

Don't get me wrong, tales and despictions of religions are not real and are merely concepts of life. But I don't see how it still disproves the idea of a higher entity existing. Even if its existence as our current despiction of God, is flat out unscientific in our current definition of science.

That's why I'm asking why you'd treat religion like it's a special idea.

I have another despiction that may be better. This time, it is about aliens.
Some people hold the idea that there is life in other parts if the Universe while others do not because we have not seen them yet. We have an absence of evidence of aliens, but that does not mean that it is an evidence of absence of them.

Curious question, while many tales of despictions of life in many religions have been proven to not be real, has there been any kind of proof that there is an absence of an entity higher than ourselves governing the Universe? We have not observed it yet, but the fact that there are no observations of it in question, should not be a reason to entirely dismiss its question of its existance, if there is no convincing proof that completely disapproves the very idea of its existance.

Of course, feel free to disagree with that thinking. A lot of people believe that the very absence of proof is proof enough. But personally, I am the type that likes to keep an open mind... Unless it really does not make sense, of course.

Hope I explained it well...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

imagine a man claiming that there is a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars. The teapot is too small for us to see, and, since we can’t journey out into space to find it, there’s no way to show that the teapot isn’t actually there. There is no evidence of its existence. That doesn't we couldn't somehow find it, but there is zero reason to give the thought weight or merit. It is false until proven otherwise, not "well, it could be, why not".

But that is simply absurd!! XD
I understand that POV though.

 

[invaderyoyo]

Don't get me wrong, tales and despictions of religions are not real and are merely concepts of life. But I don't see how it still disproves the idea of a higher entity existing. Even if its existence as our current despiction of God, is flat out unscientific in our current definition of science.


I have another despiction that may be better. This time, it is about aliens.
Some people hold the idea that there is life in other parts if the Universe while others do not because we have not seen them yet. We have an absence of evidence of aliens, but that does not mean that it is an evidence of absence of them.

Curious question, while many tales of despictions of life in many religions have been proven to not be real, has there been any kind of proof that there is an absence of an entity higher than ourselves governing the Universe? We have not observed it yet, but the fact that there are no observations of it in question, should not be a reason to entirely dismiss its question of its existance, if there is no convincing proof that completely disapproves the very idea of its existance.

Of course, feel free to disagree with that thinking. A lot of people believe that the very absence of proof is proof enough. But personally, I am the type that likes to keep an open mind... Unless it really does not make sense, of course.

Hope I explained it well...

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


But that is simply absurd!! XD

Aliens are different because we already know life can exist somewhere in space. We are proof. The universe is so big and planets with similar conditions to ours have been observed. It is completely reasonable to believe it could happen somewhere else.

There is nothing to disprove a supernatural power, but that doesn't matter at all. Like I said before, many crazy ideas can't be disproven, but that doesn't mean they deserve even a second thought. Again, why does any religion deserve a second thought?

Here's something else to think about. Say I change my mind and decide to believe in God and that he made everything. What have I answered? Absolutely nothing because I just added a new unknown to replace another one. Now, I'm left with a new question. What is God and how does he/she/it work?

 

[gamefan5]

Aliens are different because we already know life can exist somewhere in space. We are proof. The universe is so big and planets with similar conditions to ours have been observed. It is completely reasonable to believe it could happen somewhere else.

There is nothing to disprove a supernatural power, but that doesn't matter at all. Like I said before, many crazy ideas can't be disproven, but that doesn't mean they deserve even a second thought. Again, why does any religion deserve a second thought?

Here's something else to think about. Say I change my mind and decide to believe in God and that he made everything. What have I answered? Absolutely nothing because I just added a new unknown to replace another one. Now, I'm left with a new question. What is God and how does he/she/it work?

I like your answer.
Glad to see I went further to see your point of view more clearly.
And with the Russell's Teapot analogy, it begins to see why the sentence may not work for when it comes to anything related to supernatural forces.

 

[Reyn_the_Insane]

If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).

 

[grossaffe]

If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).

Well that was a completely unbiased comparison and contrast between Christians, Muslims, and Atheists. I have trouble figuring out which one you are a member of.

 

[invaderyoyo]

If I can offer my two cents, atheism is a religion. Religion is dedicating your life to a belief and a way you view the world. With atheism, you've dedicated your life in believing something, and that belief being you don't believe in a god or divine entity. You've decided to do whatever the hell you please, without thinking about the possible consequences. Whereas Christians love all people regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference (even though there are some mentally retarded Christians out there who call homosexuals horrendous things, contradicting their love, therefore not making them true Christians) and don't enforce their religion upon people (COUGHISLAMCOUGHRADICALISLAMICTERRORISMCOUGH).

Atheism is a religion in the same way that not smoking is an addiction. There are Christians that are jerks and there are Christians that are kind. The same applies to Atheists. Please don't make sweeping generalizations.

 

[Aurora Wright]

Atheism is basically "I don't believe it until I see it" (which is basically the scientific method, skepticism until something is proven). If a divine entity showed proof of its existence I would believe in it. Until then, I stick with "it's quite improbable". And when it comes to organized religion which has been historically used to obtain power and control people (so the abrahamic religions and probably others) I'm even more skeptical because there's even more likeliness that they were created by men for this purpose.

 

[Reyn_the_Insane]

Well that was a completely unbiased comparison and contrast between Christians, Muslims, and Atheists. I have trouble figuring out which one you are a member of.

Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally. There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.

 

[grossaffe]

Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally. There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.

Muslims don't have the right to call themselves Muslims if they're kind? With this kind of hate, by your own definition, I don't think you qualify as a Christian.

 

[gamefan5]

Okay, maybe I was a little biased. I don't think that all Muslims are radical, but you can't call yourself a Muslim if you aren't, just like you can't call yourself a Christian if you don't love unconditionally. There are hateful Christians and there are kind Muslims, but neither of which are faithful to their religion, therefore you can't call yourself one.

Good lord, than by nature, no one is truly Christian in the world.

If you actualy consider yourself as one, you do not even qualify as a Christian, simply by your post.