My view on religion.

[Dirtie]

The difference is logic and reasoning can have a part in religion (admittedly where it's suitable), but faith can have no part in science (as it is currently defined).

 

[Sil3n7]

Many of you are missing the point about what Christianity is about... Its not about doing the right things all of the time because that is impossible but having a relationship with Jesus and trusting that God knows the will for your life by faith not acts. Because when you truly do have a relationship like I have you wont HAVE to follow the rules you will WANT to because

"He is no fool who loses what he cant keep (things of the world) , to gain what he cant lose (Salvation)"

 

[Qpido]

Man, you don't even want to know what Scientology believes in. That requires some higher level of thinking to understand that BS.

8 Pages and I almost thought you respected all religions, just not believe in them.
I've been a Scientologist for like 10 years, I agree that Tom Cruise makes it look stupid.
It seems to be their tag line to make it look cool or something. Lamest thing ever.

Anyway, I'm curious why you think that is bullshit. Just because you don't worship a god or have to pray?
Someone mentioned no religion said to believe in yourself, well Scientology does do that :S.
I've seen Scientologists in America and they seem to worship the founder (L. Ron Hubbard) as a god, this is retarded.
I'm very happy he founded the religion, but they make it LOOK like a cult. They go about it the wrong way.
But there are alot of Scientologists who aren't so obsessed with getting more people to join, persuading them into coming and try it. Like me, I do it for myself, I'm so sick of people saying it's bullshit without even experiencing it yourself, you've just seen that one episode of South Park (I love SP) and you think you know it ALL. You know nothing.

The thing in Scientology is you do auditing, because you seem to think this is bullshit I assume you know what this is.
This procedure removes engrams, engrams are fragments of energy that have been put in your 'thetan'(so called spirit) when you've had an incident. Those things can obstruct you in the weirdest ways. (May sound illogical, PM me if you want to know more, I don't know how I can explain it better but I'll try)
This is like the best shit ever to me, because I don't have to believe in anything - I experience it first-hand.

I give respect to everyone, who believes anything. I hope you can investigate more and not call it bullshit.

Q~

 

[OSW]

Look, I think belief in religion is fine UNDER ONE CIRCUMSTANCE.

that is; You must come to your belief through your own contemplation, not be taught, forced or coerced into belief.

Let me ask all you regious people out there, If god really exists in the terms christianity and many other religions describe, then why doesn't he make us all acknowledge him? Why encourage humans to spread his word when surely such an almighty being could easily do it himself.

Why do you follow the principles of a religion which has many idiotic rules and regulations? These types of religions destroy your spiritual freedom, not expand it.

If a god honestly exists, what would he have to gain or give from people dedicating themselves to the bible or him?
The bible entails some good moral philosophy, but that comes along with a hell of alot of bullshit.
If he really cared about people he would wish us all to live an honest and forfulling life.

The reason people follow the biible or other religious text, is that people have manipulated each other over history through this apparent "religion" only for their own selfish benefits.

Forget about the details of your religion and dedicate yourself to living a good life. If god is an example of supreme good, then i'm sure that is what he would wish us to do.

 

[Opium]

Not to stir up any hate or anything, I genuinely want to know the answer to this question:

Did the Christian god kill a whole city of people just because they were sodomites? Or did I hear that wrongly somewhere along the line?

 

[Dirtie]

Not to stir up any hate or anything, I genuinely want to know the answer to this question:

Did the Christian god kill a whole city of people just because they were sodomites? Or did I hear that wrongly somewhere along the line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

 

[jaxxster]

Man, i dont really have much to say about religion. The way i see it is that religion is a form of escapsim for people to take the fact that live means nothing away from them. Then again its man of sceince vs man of faith.

 

[cheesyPOOF5]

These aren't my own words, I found it on youtube lol. It was from this huge debate on youtube about science and religion.

"Science is for the intelligent who set out to figure out how and why things happen, religion is for those of you who believe in what someone else tells you and whose only line of argument is that logic and reasoning do not count."

Actually, after taking a class on christianity, a very large amount of the Bible can be scientifically proven.

 

[Opium]

Not to stir up any hate or anything, I genuinely want to know the answer to this question:

Did the Christian god kill a whole city of people just because they were sodomites? Or did I hear that wrongly somewhere along the line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

I see, so they had other crimes as well.

Anywho, my 2 cents into the argument is that I'm perfectly happy being an atheist. My life is fulfilling without belief in a higher power. Religion has always been a excuse to massacre countless millions in the past (and present). The Muslims and Christians have been fighting for thousands of years. "My god is better than your god" etc, that's enough to put a damper on the whole thing for me.

 

[mthrnite]

I see, so they had other crimes as well.

Anywho, my 2 cents into the argument is that I'm perfectly happy being an atheist. My life is fulfilling without belief in a higher power. Religion has always been a excuse to massacre countless millions in the past (and present). The Muslims and Christians have been fighting for thousands of years. "My god is better than your god" etc, that's enough to put a damper on the whole thing for me.

Agreed on the fulfilling thing. I mean, my life doesn't ROCK 24-7 or anything, but it is rather amazing to experience.

As far as senseless killing in the bible, there's plenty. The most confusing to me would be the little kids that mocked Elisha after Elija ascended.
2nd Kings @ chapter 2[23] And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
[24] And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

I've had it explained away to me before, but never convincingly. I mean "LOL UR OLD AND BALD!" tick tick tick "RRRRAAAAAARRRRRR!!!"

Also, I think they were a bit hasty throwing Jezebel to the dogs, but maybe that's just me.

 

[Deleted User]

Man, you don't even want to know what Scientology believes in.  That requires some higher level of thinking to understand that BS.


8 Pages and I almost thought you respected all religions, just not believe in them.
I've been a Scientologist for like 10 years, I agree that Tom Cruise makes it look stupid.
It seems to be their tag line to make it look cool or something. Lamest thing ever.

Anyway, I'm curious why you think that is bullshit. Just because you don't worship a god or have to pray?
Someone mentioned no religion said to believe in yourself, well Scientology does do that :S.
I've seen Scientologists in America and they seem to worship the founder (L. Ron Hubbard) as a god, this is retarded.
I'm very happy he founded the religion, but they make it LOOK like a cult. They go about it the wrong way.
But there are alot of Scientologists who aren't so obsessed with getting more people to join, persuading them into coming and try it. Like me, I do it for myself, I'm so sick of people saying it's bullshit without even experiencing it yourself, you've just seen that one episode of South Park (I love SP) and you think you know it ALL. You know nothing.

The thing in Scientology is you do auditing, because you seem to think this is bullshit I assume you know what this is.
This procedure removes engrams, engrams are fragments of energy that have been put in your 'thetan'(so called spirit) when you've had an incident. Those things can obstruct you in the weirdest ways. (May sound illogical, PM me if you want to know more, I don't know how I can explain it better but I'll try)
This is like the best shit ever to me, because I don't have to believe in anything - I experience it first-hand.

I give respect to everyone, who believes anything. I hope you can investigate more and not call it bullshit.

Q~

I've investigated enough. The things I read about Scientology are very extreme ... and is part of your belief. And this is only a small portion. You're right, I didn't experience it at all ... but ... knowing what your faith is based on already, I don't need to even give it a "try".

Taken from: Xenu - Wikipedia
In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu), pronounced /'zi.nu/, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of aliens to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

When I say bullshit, I mean it's nonsense to me. It just bewilders me how you can bring yourself to truly believe these ... teachings. Because if anything sounds like nonsense, it's Scientology. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Where did Hubbard come up with this stuff? Was he contacted by these aliens? And don't you think it's a little strange that he was a Science Fiction writer?

 

[Bowser128]

Taken from: Xenu - Wikipedia
In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu), pronounced /'zi.nu/, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of aliens to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

When I say bullshit, I mean it's nonsense to me. It just bewilders me how you can bring yourself to truly believe these ... teachings. Because if anything sounds like nonsense, it's Scientology. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Where did Hubbard come up with this stuff? Was he contacted by these aliens? And don't you think it's a little strange that he was a Science Fiction writer?

I don't see how that leap of faith is any more nonsensical than the ones you're supposed to take in other religions.

 

[Sinkhead]

Just what I was going to say Bowser128
Anyway, my view on religion...
I am personally an agnostic. I'm a bit young and I don't live or go to school with any profoundly religious people so I don't know a lot about the religions.
In my view, faith can be compared to this:
When I go diving, I have faith in the valve on my air tank that it isn't going to break or rupture and I can continue breathing as normal. I can keep the valve working properly by checking it every so often and cleaning any bits of dirt that collect round the seal.
In life, I could have faith in God to guide me through life and do other Goddy things. God will like me better if I pray, go to church and follow the 10 comandments.

I have no problems if other people have a religion, unless they have a problem with me not having a religion.

- Sam

 

[Azimuth]

Its strange that most people on this forum are non-believers.

@Qpido, I respect your right to practice whatever you want, but do you think following a religion founded by a science fiction writer who was busted by the FBI numerous times indulging in pedophilia is the right choice?

I believe that everything is explained by logic and reason, can't explain something then just STFU and don't open your mouth.

 

[Sinkhead]

@Qpido, I respect your right to practice whatever you want, but do you think following a religion founded by a science fiction writer who was busted by the FBI numerous times indulging in pedophilia is the right choice?

Sorry if I'm mis-informed about Christianity, but do you think following a religion founded by a crazy guy who supposedly had magical God powers who was nailed to a cross and came back to life as a zombie is the right choice?

As above, this still counts:
I have no problems if other people have a religion, unless they have a problem with me not having a religion.

- Sam

EDIT: I think my view of Christianity has been warped by Monty Python...

 

[Azimuth]

Sorry if I'm mis-informed about Christianity, but do you think following a religion founded by a crazy guy who supposedly had magical God powers who was nailed to a cross and came back to life as a zombie is the right choice?

As above, this still counts:
I have no problems if other people have a religion, unless they have a problem with me not having a religion.

- Sam

EDIT: I think my view of Christianity has been warped by Monty Python...

maybe the other 8 pages before this haven't convinced you, i dont care about religion/god, whatever branch it is. Just offering some insight into scientology.

 

[spokenrope]

a whole universe being made in 7 days

Define "a day".

This has always seemed stupid to me. Atheists say that 7 days isn't long enough to create a universe, Christians say that a day can be a longer period of time than 24 hours... who cares.

If a person is going to accept the creation of matter and energy and cycles and everything in the universe from nothing, there's no reason to argue about the length of time it would take to complete this impossible process.

 

[spokenrope]

Taken from: Xenu - Wikipedia
In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu), pronounced /'zi.nu/, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of aliens to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

When I say bullshit, I mean it's nonsense to me. It just bewilders me how you can bring yourself to truly believe these ... teachings. Because if anything sounds like nonsense, it's Scientology. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me. Where did Hubbard come up with this stuff? Was he contacted by these aliens? And don't you think it's a little strange that he was a Science Fiction writer?



I don't see how that leap of faith is any more nonsensical than the ones you're supposed to take in other religions.

Exactly why I went through a brief stint where I actually called myself a Scientologist. I figured that it was just a satire on other religions and all the members were just accepting the most off the wall shit possible. If you took them seriously, it was because you didn't get the joke.

But no. I was wrong. I soon found out.

 

[shakirmoledina]

I'll give my view based on my religion (Islamic Perspective)

Religion kills; Totally false because its not religion which causes war but actually discrimination between religion. God says in His book that killing another person on the context that he is from another religion is false totally but except on the fact that he is an evil person ( causes corruption etc) and if done so he has killed the whole of humanity (i.e. it's like a description of how bad it is)
Proof of God; Very simple cause and effect plus perfect creation
There are a total of approx. 100 billion Stars in the Universe and each is gigantic in size, ur saying it was not created by God... how then?
To make something come into existence it must be created by an external force as Matter can't be created or destroyed so who created it?
Cause and Effect states that "for every effect, there must a cause that causes that effect".. which means that everything which you see happening around you has to have a cause for it to happen... but for this chain of cause and effect to continue forever is not logical, hence there must be an absolute cause or the Ultimate Cause for everything that happens and that infact is God.
I'm sure we all know basic Chemistry so ill state an example from that. Atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons. Electrons revolve around the nucleus of the atom (which contains the protons and neutrons) in the most perfect manner possible without causing collisions at all. Who has put this perfect order into the atom? You may say its the intermolecular forces and electronic interactions etc. But in the end there must be some effect which not even the smartest scientist be able to explain. This is where the answer lies...The Ultimate Cause = God!

I'll quote a tradition from our books about an atheist who came to our 6th Holy Leader (Imam Jaffer ibn Mohammed). He claimed that he did not believe God existed. So Imam asked him "Have you ever been in a situation where you are about to die and there is no hope of living anymore and you can see death is near?".. The atheist replied "Yes, I was once sailing when a big storm came and I was sure I would not survive" ... So Imam asked him "Did you get the feeling and hope that Someone will save you?" To which the atheist agreed. The Imam told him "This inner feeling is the feeling of the existence of that supernatural entity Who is God".
Thus, the belief of God is innate in every human being, no matter how much he denies it.

 

[cruddybuddy]

It's taboo to criticize religious faith or any convictions born from it. Religions are the area in which we tolerate dogma uncritically. To deny the holocaust ever happened, or to assert you're in dialog with extraterrestrials is pretty much synonymous with craziness in our culture. This is so because we challenge people when they strongly believe in things without evidence or in contradiction to a mountain of evidence ... except on matters of faith.

So let me get this straight. There's this invisible being called God. And this God is fully aware that 1) he never physically shows himself to anyone and 2) there's not more evidence for his existence than there is for unicorns. And yet under those conditions I'm expected to believe in him, and if I don't, I'll be damned to a fiery hell for eternity after I die, despite living a life of kindness, generosity and love for others? What a rip off! This outlines ONE of the many reasons why I'm an atheist. Its not that I choose not to believe in a god. You don't consciously CHOOSE to believe in something or not. You either do believe, or you don't. And I don't. My mind is just not capable of believing in something so ... extraordinarily ridiculous to me. Magical and invisible beings that can hear your thoughts may seem normal to others, but not to me. It angers me when people ask why I choose to be an atheist. I didn't CHOOSE to be an atheist! BELIEF IS NOT A CHOICE. I can't choose to believe in God! Can you choose to believe that my toenail clippings made the universe? Going to hell for INHERENTLY not believing in God just doesn't make any sense. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I haven't mentioned walking on water, rising from the dead, or a talking bush. If I told those stories to a child, they'd most likely believe it. Children believe anything, which is why I think it's dangerous to teach those biblical stories as FACT. It amazes me how many grown adults believe in these magical, fairytale-like stories. I guess when you hear these stories over and over again, and are brought up being taught that these stories actually happened for a fact ... you tend to lose the sense of absurdity. The whole bible is filled with hundreds of examples of ... crazy things happening. No offence to Christians (or else I'd be offending a HUGE number of people), but I just can't understand how someone can devote their lives to something so crazy and truly "believe" the majority of what the bible says. If only you can see it from my eyes ...

Creationists usually find some sort of scientific statistics to help back up their argument. Or they bring in the laws of thermodynamics and all this talk about missing links. Some Christians even believe that dinosaurs lived alongside man at one point in history. Now that's just going really low. But why not bring up the more meaty topics like a burning bush that talks to people? Explain that. And don't tell me Moses was on hallucinogens. And tell me if rainbows are really a sign from God to remind us of the great flood. But the truth of it all lies in ... absurdity. We can nitpick at the little contradictions in the bible, but it's easier to look at it as a whole. If you look at the big picture ... you should see something wrong with it all ... with the whole notion of religion.

I shouldn't have to say all this to begin with, because the burden of proof is not on me. People forget that they were born an atheist; the default position. If a person claims something, they are obligated to support it and no one is obligated to prove them wrong. If a claimant cannot provide that support, then the default position of disbelief is justified. The requirement of rational, logical support for a claim is very important. The methodology of skepticism, critical thinking, and logical arguments is what allows us to separate sense from nonsense; when a person abandons that methodology, they abandon any pretense of trying to make sense or engage in a sensible discussion.

Just something to think about:
Take 100 million Hindus, 100 millions Buddhists, 100 million Sikhs, 100 million Muslims, and 100 million Christians. So that's 500 million people in total. Since only one religion can be real, that makes 400 million people (80% of the population) wasting their lives in worshipping something that never existed. They might as well be worshipping my toenail clippings. Everyone can agree that religions are man-made. A Christian would say Hinduism is bogus and was the idea of a creative man, and a Hindu would say Christianity is bogus and was the idea of a creative man. I created this imagry to illustrate that the majority of religious followers, are wasting their lives. Of course everyone is stubborn, and would like to think that they themselves aren't wasting their time because they believe in the TRUE god. In actuality, it's much more reasonable to deduce that ALL religions are man made ... instead of ONE being real and the rest being copycats.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

If a baby dies, he/she goes to hell.
Everyone who died before Jesus was born goes to hell, because the only way to God, is through Jesus.

Man, I ramble a lot. BTW, I used to be a Christian ... I just saw the light eventually.

Wow, and you came up with this all on your own at the ripe age of 17 when highly educated theologians have been discussing topics of religion for several millenia? You're amazing!