My view on religion.

[Hitto]

I never understood that ongoing debate you guys have going on in the states between "intelligent design" and "evolution".

From what I remember, the torah and (maybe the bible too?) states that thousands of years seem like only a day to g.d. So, that doesn't contradict the whole seven days metaphor.
Why can't the religious freaks reconcile the fact that evolution was how He wanted it to happen, over thousands and thousands of millenia - which the bible calls mere days?
Evolution proves itself everyday. Remember how DDT stopped being useful against mosquitoes? Because these damn things have such short lifespans, evolving natural resistances against DDT took them only a few thousand generational cycles - attainable in a few man-years.

My point is, whether you believe in Him/Her/It or whether He/She/It is sentient (adding that part since someone called Darwin's work and science in general a religion - must... resist... urge... to... flame...) , g.d *gave* you a fucking brain. Use it and try not to be an asshole.

 

[[M]artin]

Taken from: Xenu - Wikipedia
In Scientology doctrine, Xenu (also Xemu), pronounced /'zi.nu/, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of aliens to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to wreak chaos and havoc today.

That's some Metroid-type shit, right there...

 

[Dirtie]

Why can't the religious freaks reconcile the fact that evolution was how He wanted it to happen, over thousands and thousands of millenia - which the bible calls mere days?

Possibly because of the fact there was supposed to be no death (or carnivorism) at all until after Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden - millions of years of death and animals (and cave people) eating other animals doesn't really add up to that. To believe in evolution you might as well throw out the first part of Genesis entirely - and if that can't be trusted, why believe any of the rest? I think that's why it's such a hotly debated topic.

 

[spokenrope]

I'll quote a tradition from our books about an atheist who came to our 6th Holy Leader (Imam Jaffer ibn Mohammed). He claimed that he did not believe God existed. So Imam asked him "Have you ever been in a situation where you are about to die and there is no hope of living anymore and you can see death is near?".. The atheist replied "Yes, I was once sailing when a big storm came and I was sure I would not survive" ... So Imam asked him "Did you get the feeling and hope that Someone will save you?" To which the atheist agreed. The Imam told him "This inner feeling is the feeling of the existence of that supernatural entity Who is God".
Thus, the belief of God is innate in every human being, no matter how much he denies it.

Oh. I didn't know that we could use completely made up anecdotes about individuals and apply them to whole groups of people.

I talked to my Christian friend the other day about god. I asked him "Have you ever seen god?" to which he responded "No." Then I asked "Have shitty things ever happened to good people that you've known and you felt like there was no reason for it?" And my friend said "Yeah. Like the Virginia Tech shooting. What kind of a god would let that happen?"

And then he recanted right then and there, I shit you not.

Thus, belief in god is asinine.

 

[spokenrope]

Why can't the religious freaks reconcile the fact that evolution was how He wanted it to happen, over thousands and thousands of millenia - which the bible calls mere days?

Possibly because of the fact there was supposed to be no death (or carnivorism) at all until after Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden - millions of years of death and animals (and cave people) eating other animals doesn't really add up to that. To believe in evolution you might as well throw out the first part of Genesis entirely - and if that can't be trusted, why believe any of the rest? I think that's why it's such a hotly debated topic.

Unless you want to be an absolutely terrible person, you'd better throw out about 75 percent of the old testament completely. There's some really bad stuff in there.

 

[Dirtie]

Unless you want to be an absolutely terrible person, you'd better throw out about 75 percent of the old testament completely. There's some really bad stuff in there.

I think that's a generalization and slightly over-exaggerated

But sure, there's some strange stuff in there alright. I think a lot of it was directed at the Israelites at the time though, rather than something modern people should live by. There's still principles that people would do well to adhere to, and of course there's still the Ten Commandments which Jesus stated he never intended to replace - which I think we can agree that if everyone followed this'd be a much happier place (simply by "do not murder" alone).

 

[Bowser128]

You know what I absolutely hate hearing?
When people say "The universe had to be created by something, it couldn't have started on its own, everything has to have a creator, so it must have been God."
Fair enough, if that's the view of the religious people, the logical question for me to ask then is: who created god? The usual (blind) response is "Oh, that's different, those rules don't apply to God."
What a load of rubbish, you can't just decide there's some universally infallible rule, that suddenly becomes fallible whenever you deem it necessary.

 

[henry_uk]

I talked to my Christian friend the other day about god. I asked him "Have you ever seen god?" to which he responded "No." Then I asked "Have shitty things ever happened to good people that you've known and you felt like there was no reason for it?" And my friend said "Yeah. Like the Virginia Tech shooting. What kind of a god would let that happen?"

And then he recanted right then and there, I shit you not.

Thus, belief in god is asinine.

If your friend is a Christian, and he is your friend, what drives you to try to disprove the things he believes?

 

[henry_uk]

Unless you want to be an absolutely terrible person, you'd better throw out about 75 percent of the old testament completely. There's some really bad stuff in there.

Have you read the whole of the Old Testament?

 

[spokenrope]

Unless you want to be an absolutely terrible person, you'd better throw out about 75 percent of the old testament completely. There's some really bad stuff in there.

I think that's a generalization and slightly over-exaggerated

Yeah. I agree. But the fact remains that there's a lot that needs to be disregarded in the old testament, and I honestly don't think that a lot of people see that, which leads to confusion and intolerance.

If your friend is a Christian, and he is your friend, what drives you to try to disprove the things he believes?

I was being facetious. But my friends that are religious are open to discussing our differences in faith. Otherwise, they wouldn't be my friends.

QUOTE

Have you read the whole of the Old Testament?

No. I went to a Catholic school through middle school, and then in high school, I dated a girl for 5 years and attended her church bible study group religiously (rimshot). I feel that I've got a pretty good grasp of the material. And, as I said, 75 percent is an exaggeration.

Do you disagree that there's some passages in the old testament that are complete garbage and need to be ignored?

 

[Qpido]

Nestea, you shouldn't read what people who are against Scientology write.
That Xenu thing isn't a teaching, when in auditing, you visit past lives.
That guy probably experienced that, or something similar or something, and this so called engram I mentioned earlier acted up and prevented him from his own will.

Scientologists believe a thetan is not evil, all man is good but because they have been suppressed they do bad things.

I can't possibly want you to understand, because it seems you have already made it a fact that you think it's nonsense.
But I don't think you're even allowed to talk about any religion whatsoever if u haven't experienced it first hand.

So ya...

Q~

 

[noamkot]

I'll give my view based on my religion (Islamic Perspective)

Religion kills; Totally false because its not religion which causes war but actually discrimination between religion. God says in His book that killing another person on the context that he is from another religion is false totally but except on the fact that he is an evil person ( causes corruption etc) and if done so he has killed the whole of humanity (i.e. it's like a description of how bad it is)
Proof of God; Very simple cause and effect plus perfect creation
There are a total of approx. 100 billion Stars in the Universe and each is gigantic in size, ur saying it was not created by God... how then?
To make something come into existence it must be created by an external force as Matter can't be created or destroyed so who created it?
Cause and Effect states that "for every effect, there must a cause that causes that effect".. which means that everything which you see happening around you has to have a cause for it to happen... but for this chain of cause and effect to continue forever is not logical, hence there must be an absolute cause or the Ultimate Cause for everything that happens and that infact is God.
I'm sure we all know basic Chemistry so ill state an example from that. Atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons. Electrons revolve around the nucleus of the atom (which contains the protons and neutrons) in the most perfect manner possible without causing collisions at all. Who has put this perfect order into the atom? You may say its the intermolecular forces and electronic interactions etc. But in the end there must be some effect which not even the smartest scientist be able to explain. This is where the answer lies...The Ultimate Cause = God!

I'll quote a tradition from our books about an atheist who came to our 6th Holy Leader (Imam Jaffer ibn Mohammed). He claimed that he did not believe God existed. So Imam asked him "Have you ever been in a situation where you are about to die and there is no hope of living anymore and you can see death is near?".. The atheist replied "Yes, I was once sailing when a big storm came and I was sure I would not survive" ... So Imam asked him "Did you get the feeling and hope that Someone will save you?" To which the atheist agreed. The Imam told him "This inner feeling is the feeling of the existence of that supernatural entity Who is God".
Thus, the belief of God is innate in every human being, no matter how much he denies it.

I agree with you that religion doesn't kill, not even Islam. It's people that kill and religion is just one reason of many.
But in other respects I believe you're wrong.
Electrons are not small circles that rotate around a core but this is rather a simplistic model that helps high school pupils grasp some of the concepts concerning atoms basic quantum physics.
If everything must be created by someone then who created God itself? If an unimaginably complex entity like God wasn't created by anyone wouldn't it be possible that the universe was created by a similar no one as well And if there are things that we don't understand and can't understand why does religion even try and bother?
Traditions are nice and Shi'a Islamic traditions are just as good as Sunni, Jewish or Christian traditions. They help strengthen the faith of those who already believe and starts to doubt but since even the last of great Shi'a Imams was not able to examine the heart and kidneys of men, one can also assume the inner feeling that the poor atheist felt during the storm in the middle of the sea was most likely sea sickness

And besides, I have learned never ever to believe those people that tell you what other people, who are totally different from them, think and what other people believe in. In today's world we have excellent sources of information to learn from ourselves that are more objective.
Peace.

 

[shakirmoledina]

I'll just answer the "wrongs" that you raised..
Firstly, i agree electrons don't circle around in the simple way i mentioned..i just said to make a point...even if you do consider the various forces which make the electrons move, it is almost impossible for these forces to have come into existence on their own and considering the millions of atoms in this world...each with its own properties..i think you are getting my point.

And about the tradition that i quoted...i think you misunderstood me when i said "inner feeling". I didn't mean sea sickness or any gastrointestinal related problem. What i meant by feeling was not physical but rather mental/spiritual. This "feeling" is proof of God's existence.

And about who created God.. The answer is simple.. No one created God. He is beyond imagination. And you raise the point of having the universe created by chance. I'll give you a piece of information (fact) from scientists. They say to make a single amino acid (the constituent form of protein), the probability of it happening by chance is 1/100to the power of 450....that's pretty much impossible...(let alone the whole universe). Infact, I think one of the best ways to prove the existence of God is to learn Science. The amazing and fascinating laws of physics, the reactions of chemistry, the physiology of life, the majic of mathematics etc. everything leads you to wondering how is all this possible by chance? If you truly are ready to believe that God exists then I'm sure you will believe it once you just ponder upon the creation and realise its not all possible by chance.

 

[serious_sean]

god isn't an answer to anything; it's an excuse not to provide an answer. Just because we can't understand something doesn't mean we should invent something like god, which is even more impossible.

It's so obvious! we know that ancient religions' gods were false! in the future, others will look at this culture the same way.

enough with the silliness; it's making all of humanity dumber to believe things that aren't true.

 

[imgod22222]

This seems to remind me of the Wii episode of south park....

A bunch of people and beavers fighting in a war..
Future dude: "OH MY SCIENCE!"
his head explodes.
Cartman: "OH MY GOD!"
Another future dude: "Haha! You believe in a supernatural being which doesn't exist!"
his head explodes.

I think it was between the united atheist alliance, united atheist league, and the allied atheist alliance.


Now, seriously, IMO: Religion is an excuse to tell people how you/others run your life. The church runs your life by saying god gave you free will, now attend mass and confess your sins to god or you will go to hell, etc.

 

[noamkot]

I'll just answer the "wrongs" that you raised..
Firstly, i agree electrons don't circle around in the simple way i mentioned..i just said to make a point...even if you do consider the various forces which make the electrons move, it is almost impossible for these forces to have come into existence on their own and considering the millions of atoms in this world...each with its own properties..i think you are getting my point.

And about the tradition that i quoted...i think you misunderstood me when i said "inner feeling". I didn't mean sea sickness or any gastrointestinal related problem. What i meant by feeling was not physical but rather mental/spiritual. This "feeling" is proof of God's existence.

And about who created God.. The answer is simple.. No one created God. He is beyond imagination. And you raise the point of having the universe created by chance. I'll give you a piece of information (fact) from scientists. They say to make a single amino acid (the constituent form of protein), the probability of it happening by chance is 1/100to the power of 450....that's pretty much impossible...(let alone the whole universe). Infact, I think one of the best ways to prove the existence of God is to learn Science. The amazing and fascinating laws of physics, the reactions of chemistry, the physiology of life, the majic of mathematics etc. everything leads you to wondering how is all this possible by chance? If you truly are ready to believe that God exists then I'm sure you will believe it once you just ponder upon the creation and realise its not all possible by chance.

Seriously, I'm not getting your point... All those can't possibly, inner feeling, and the fact that you can't accept the idea that the world was not created by any thing or any one boil down to the fact that this is what you were educated upon.
You seem to quote statistics alot and say that there is no chance this and no chance that but where there are so many stars (as you mentioned) and each containing zillions of billions of molecules and atoms (as you also mentioned)... the probability for the creation of amino acids is suddenly not that odd...

I was told by my parents that there is no such thing as God and thus I never felt any strange unexplained spiritual feelings (even in the face of danger) or need to answer everything that I don't know or don't understand by saying that it's divine intervention. This is also why I don't happen to find any merit in the notion of God's existence, which you consider to be a noble concept.
As a result of that I am not open and not ready and totally unwilling to believe in a God, which was first and foremost the God of my people, the abstract God which was created by my ancestors to silence questions and to control minds.

This is how I see things. I realize you don't agree with it as I don't agree with your beliefs but I respect your beliefs and everyone else's beliefs as long as they accept my right to hold my beliefs.

 

[Dirtie]

Careful, this is getting on the verge of flaming.

serious_sean, your last comment is your opinion, so it should be stated as such, not as fact. It seems a bit like blatant provocation to me

 

[trepid]

So does god have a belly button?

 

[cruddybuddy]

For those of you wondering how God was created, it was a big bang. That should be the end of THAT ridiculous argument.

Oh, and as for using a lower case G when writing "god," well I can appreciate the point you're making, but it's a little silly. Most of us, Christians included, don't believe in Santa Claus, but we use capitalization because it is a proper name. Don't compromise your literary integrity to make an immature point.

Finally, and I offer this last argument not to convert or convince but to enlighten and stimulate your rational thinking skills. People who believe in God and hold intricate ideas and explanations for God's existence are not stupid or making desperate attempts to reconcile God with science. Rather, they are able to logically understand perspectives that not all of us can grasp in the same way.

Let me offer this example to illustrate my point with a game many of us have enjoyed. I was playing Super Paper Mario at my Father-in-law's house and he could not easily understand what was happening when I would switch between 2 and 3-D. In fact, it doesn't really make sense that a 3-D gap could be crossed with a 2-D bridge, but once you understand the concept of the game, you no longer question it. Logically, it is impossible, but you know something that those little 2-D goombas don't know. Considering most of the western world was perfectly happy with selling slaves a mere century ago, and Darwin's theories are practically babies in the eyes of world history, it's at least conceivable that there are things about our world, universe, even God, that is not understood. To think that anyone with a concept of God is ignorant is highly arrogant and frankly, unintelligent. Instead of adding more hate to the world, or pointing fingers at religious zealots (which, by the way, is what the VT shooter was doing) why can't we all accept that some people understand concepts of the universe differently from us. You might just discover that 3-D pipe hiding behind the fence.

By the way, if a religious fanatic tries to make you feel bad for not joining their religion, get over it. Nobody is taking away your right to be an arrogant know-it-all and life is full of annoyances so get used to it! Now if you'll excuse me, I have a vacuum cleaner salesman to escort from my property.

 

[trepid]

I use a lower case g not to say I don't believe, but because I'm referring to the philosophical idea of any god. If I was talking about Christianity in particular I would use God.

But just to be a little immature...

santa claus.