Opinions on New Super Mario Bros. Series.

[Robert Newbie]

So, I want to know if my feelings on the New Super Mario Bros. series are uncommon.

I felt that the physics were floaty. I feel like jumps are easier to calculate when you drop more sharply. Respectfully, I felt like the areas and music were a tad uninspired too.

I still put a lot of time into the NSMB series, especially NSMB Wii with a friend. I'm thankful for it, but I'm not motivated to revisit to them.

What do you guys think of the NSMB series?

 

[Quore]

Based on what I've played, the DS version, it's a pretty solid game, not too hard but not too easy, nice playtime and great graphics.

But the NEWER NSMB romhack takes this game and upgrades every aspect of it, more stages, new worlds, new upgrades, you can even select who you'll play with (between Mario and Luigi) on the loading screen.

It won't be hard to search for it with some googling

 

[Marc_LFD]

DS Ver. - Great
Wii Ver. - Very good
Wii U / Switch Ver. - Good
3DS Ver. - Go f*ck yourselves, Nintendo

Mario Wonder looks like it borrows from the NSMB formula, but it's not yet another recycled NSMB game, rather its own new game so at least it has that going for it.

 

[Scarlet]

I feel like the later New Soup games felt like level packs for a pre-established Mario engine, and if you go into them with that kind of outlook they're generally quite enjoyable. New Super Mario Bros U Deluxe was my favourite 2D Mario game prior to Wonder.

As a base I feel it's solid, but I do understand what you mean with it being a bit floaty. The spin introduced in Wii definitely adds to that, since you can actually just float in the air a bit too lol. But yeah, fun games all in all, if a little samey.

I did review NSMBUDX when it launched in 2019 if you're interested. It's a bit of a short review at a glance but I can't imagine 2019 me's thoughts are much different to the me of 2024:
https://gbatemp.net/review/new-super-mario-bros-u-deluxe.931/

(and the obligatory link to my more recent Mario Wonder review ;D)
https://gbatemp.net/review/super-mario-bros-wonder.2406/

 

[mightymuffy]

I watched some youtuber or other show the floaty mechanics of the New SMB games compared to Super Mario World - letting go of the pad while running right at the same speeds (ish) in both games: Mario stops dead in World almost instantly, but keeps on walking for a good half a second in New Soup - WTF were they smoking when they decided that would be a good idea?

I honestly enjoyed the first game on DS at the time of release, but probably only because it was the first 2D Mario platformer we'd got in fukkin years.... Wii was generally shite but worth a few goes in multiplayer simply for the chaos, ditto U, and don't even get me started on the 3DS game.
Wonder was a blast, and leagues better than the New Soups (but I've forgotten what was in most of it already...!)

 

[Robert Newbie]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that "float" in the game physics.

I can see how the first DS game would feel unique, so people remember it more fondly. I can also see how the formula got stale fast, since NSMB lacks a bit of inspiration. I think the need to tone down the challenge may have impacted the designs.

I haven't played Wonder, but everyone says it's a much better game than other 2.5D Mario games.

 

[Marc_LFD]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that "float" in the game physics.

I can see how the first DS game would feel unique, so people remember it more fondly. I can also see how the formula got stale fast, since NSMB lacks a bit of inspiration. I think the need to tone down the challenge may have impacted the designs.

I haven't played Wonder, but everyone says it's a much better game than other 2.5D Mario games.

The only nitpick I might have with Wonder could be the new Mario VA, but seems he did a decent job.

Unless you listen to him here:



What the fuck.

 

[Kraken_X]

Overall, the New Super Mario series was a huge step down from the SNES's Super Mario World (SMW). Instead of giving us more of what made that game great, they carved up those things and fed some of them back to us over the next 20 years in pieces. Some of the best elements like the cape and being able to bring Yoshi between levels never made a return, while others took multiple entries in the series to come back.

New Super Mario Bros (NSMB) for the DS was a massive step down from Super Mario World on the SNES. They removed most of Martio's moves, all flight powers (especially the cape), removed Yoshi, and messed with the physics. The point of the game at the time was to "recapture the magic of the original SMB", which meant back to basics. It's my least favorite 2D Mario. I was playing SMW rom hacks, so I wasn't starved for content like everyone else was to put up with how much worse it was than SMW and SMB3.

New Super Mario Bros Wii (NSMBW) added the 4-player co-op, which was an advancement, and I had a lot of good times playing it with friends. They started slowly adding SMW elements back in with this one. The spinny cap was a weak flight power, and Yoshi was back for a few levels. The music was bad enough I made my own rom hack to replace it though. The spin made up for some of the inconsistancies in the physics, even though it made it easier.

NSMB2's big gimmick was coins, which was kinda dumb. Co-op was still pretty good, but you needed two 3DSs and two copies of the game. They added in the racoon power, which was Mario's second best flight power. Nintendo was (and still is) too cowardly to give us the cape back though. I ignored this one for a while, but ended up having more fun with it than I expected. Still pretty forgettable.

NSMB Wii U gave us back the world map from SMW as well as multi-color Yoshi's that you can bring between levels. However only baby Yoshi's and they were much harder to get and keep. It's got similar co-op to NSMBW and plays in HD, but otherwise is quite forgettable. The ability for the second player to assist by using the game pad's touch screen was neat and let non-gamers play too. But that was lost in the Switch version.

Mario Wonder - This game is a departure from the "New" series and actually feels unique and memorable as a result. It's my favorite 2D Mario game after SMW and this game just oozes charm. The animations, how enemies react to you, the soundtrack that adapts to what you are doing, the detailed backgrounds; overall the world just feels so vibrant and alive. The Wonder flowers add a new gimmick to every level and they are hugely varied and tons of fun. The co-op is massivly improved with less getting in each other's way. It finally brings back Yoshi, but with the second player controling it. But that's actually perfect since it allows players with less skill to either ride the Yoshi or to be the Yoshi and get the flutter jump from the Yoshi games and infinite health. It's also got a world map that is arguably more interesting than the one in SMW. Even if the NSMB series turned you off to 2D Mario, you need to play this one.

Honerable mention: Mario Maker. The Mario Maker series lets you make custom Mario levels and play levels other people have created. But it also comes with 50+ levels made by Nintendo, which are actually really good. Since the level can be made in the style of other Mario games, it finally brings back the full move lists of SMW and SMB3, even if you can't keep powers between levels. The levels are all unique between the Wii U, 3DS and Switch games, making all three worth a playthrough. The Switch Mario Maker was my 2nd favorite 2D Mario up until Wonder, and it adds elements from Mario 3D World, an excellent story mode, and even world maps if you have Ninendo Online. It's actually the only reason why I have Nintendo online. Still, I enjoy playing a good SMW rom hack over the random levels and worlds online.

 

[Robert Newbie]

Overall, the New Super Mario series was a huge step down from the SNES's Super Mario World (SMW). Instead of giving us more of what made that game great, they carved up those things and fed some of them back to us over the next 20 years in pieces. Some of the best elements like the cape and being able to bring Yoshi between levels never made a return, while others took multiple entries in the series to come back.

New Super Mario Bros (NSMB) for the DS was a massive step down from Super Mario World on the SNES. They removed most of Martio's moves, all flight powers (especially the cape), removed Yoshi, and messed with the physics. The point of the game at the time was to "recapture the magic of the original SMB", which meant back to basics. It's my least favorite 2D Mario. I was playing SMW rom hacks, so I wasn't starved for content like everyone else was to put up with how much worse it was than SMW and SMB3.

New Super Mario Bros Wii (NSMBW) added the 4-player co-op, which was an advancement, and I had a lot of good times playing it with friends. They started slowly adding SMW elements back in with this one. The spinny cap was a weak flight power, and Yoshi was back for a few levels. The music was bad enough I made my own rom hack to replace it though. The spin made up for some of the inconsistancies in the physics, even though it made it easier.

NSMB2's big gimmick was coins, which was kinda dumb. Co-op was still pretty good, but you needed two 3DSs and two copies of the game. They added in the racoon power, which was Mario's second best flight power. Nintendo was (and still is) too cowardly to give us the cape back though. I ignored this one for a while, but ended up having more fun with it than I expected. Still pretty forgettable.

NSMB Wii U gave us back the world map from SMW as well as multi-color Yoshi's that you can bring between levels. However only baby Yoshi's and they were much harder to get and keep. It's got similar co-op to NSMBW and plays in HD, but otherwise is quite forgettable. The ability for the second player to assist by using the game pad's touch screen was neat and let non-gamers play too. But that was lost in the Switch version.

Mario Wonder - This game is a departure from the "New" series and actually feels unique and memorable as a result. It's my favorite 2D Mario game after SMW and this game just oozes charm. The animations, how enemies react to you, the soundtrack that adapts to what you are doing, the detailed backgrounds; overall the world just feels so vibrant and alive. The Wonder flowers add a new gimmick to every level and they are hugely varied and tons of fun. The co-op is massivly improved with less getting in each other's way. It finally brings back Yoshi, but with the second player controling it. But that's actually perfect since it allows players with less skill to either ride the Yoshi or to be the Yoshi and get the flutter jump from the Yoshi games and infinite health. It's also got a world map that is arguably more interesting than the one in SMW. Even if the NSMB series turned you off to 2D Mario, you need to play this one.

Honerable mention: Mario Maker. The Mario Maker series lets you make custom Mario levels and play levels other people have created. But it also comes with 50+ levels made by Nintendo, which are actually really good. Since the level can be made in the style of other Mario games, it finally brings back the full move lists of SMW and SMB3, even if you can't keep powers between levels. The levels are all unique between the Wii U, 3DS and Switch games, making all three worth a playthrough. The Switch Mario Maker was my 2nd favorite 2D Mario up until Wonder, and it adds elements from Mario 3D World, an excellent story mode, and even world maps if you have Ninendo Online. It's actually the only reason why I have Nintendo online. Still, I enjoy playing a good SMW rom hack over the random levels and worlds online.

What a great, detailed post. Thanks for the write up. I feel more hyped to try out Wonder. Reading your post, maybe Nintendo did "go back to basics" with NSMB, but despite the name, it was a base to drip-feed old features back to the consumer. I think that's where the lack of inspiration came in, along with the generic environments. It's the more calculating corporate Nintendo we have today vs. the corporate (but creative) Nintendo of old.

I don't think the Cape will ever come back because the controls aren't as intuitive as the Raccoon Suit. I was a kid, and I remember the cape needing lots of wrangling to get right. You needed to practice. It was skill building. Nintendo's a bit more calculating now. The Wing Cap in SM64 was a similar story.

EDIT: Ha, I forgot the rant about Mario Maker. Some user levels are really fun, and those daily levels were a real trip sometimes. I have personal "rules" for both Mario Maker and Mega Man Maker: No overly long levels, no endless boss rushes, and no troll levels. (Jump the gap, aaaaand: INVISIBLE COIN BOX! TEE HEE HEE) Sometimes I still get sucked in, though. I just can't say no to a challenge.

 

[Flame]

New Super Mario Bros is like water. I need it from time to time. But I don't think, I can't wait to drink water today.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

@Kraken_X
I'm biased regarding SMW because it is connected with some of my best childhood memories and somebody who I miss terribly.
Looking at it without such bias: As fun as the cape and the blue Yoshi abilities are, they pretty much break the game to the point of easily beating many stages blindfolded. The game was rushed in development and doesn't make full use of the SNES capabilities.
Other than the special world there is not much challenge in SMW.

@Flame That comparison doesn't quite work. Life on Earth is literally based on water. We need it to survive.
But thanks for brightening up my day! That was a really cool statement.


Regarding the New Super Mario Series in general: There is even less challenge in the normal game (outside special stages and 100% hunting) than SMW. This goes up to the point that the Wii version play itself when you lose… while pretending you won. Biggest flaw in that series in my opinion. Other than that the series is nice to pickup and play without thinking.

 

[Robert Newbie]

@Kraken_X
I'm biased regarding SMW because it is connected with some of my best childhood memories and somebody who I miss terribly.
Looking at it without such bias: As fun as the cape and the blue Yoshi abilities are, they pretty much break the game to the point of easily beating many stages blindfolded. The game was rushed in development and doesn't make full use of the SNES capabilities.
Other than the special world there is not much challenge in SMW.

@Flame That comparison doesn't quite work. Life on Earth is literally based on water. We need it to survive.
But thanks for brightening up my day! That was a really cool statement.


Regarding the New Super Mario Series in general: There is even less challenge in the normal game (outside special stages and 100% hunting) than SMW. This goes up to the point that the Wii version play itself when you lose… while pretending you won. Biggest flaw in that series in my opinion. Other than that the series is nice to pickup and play without thinking.

Man, even Super Mario World was rushed? You wouldn't know it, since it feels very complete as-is. I played it a million times as a kid, and I don't remember any glaring oversights. Yoshi's Island may be the opposite with all those years of development. Wind Waker was the biggest victim of Nintendo's rushed development practices, in my opinion. That game would have been so much more with an actual Zelda's worth of content included.

You'd think, with the money Nintendo makes per big game (with eventual re-releases in the future) that they'd let the devs go the extra mile. That's what made the NES, SNES, and N64 eras so exceptional.

 

[KleinesSinchen]

Man, even Super Mario World was rushed?

Ever noticed some oddity about Football Chuck?
Some of them throw baseballs . It's literally the same sprite as the charging Chucks running around and those tossing footballs . Not even a pallet change like common in this era.

Broken cape mechanic allowing pretty much level skip can't have been missed, but wasn't fixed.
Collision detection and eject routine is meh. Without being a talented speed runner exploiting the tiniest flaws with stunning precision it is possible to pass through narrow gaps. (Hidden exit of last Ghost House in Bowser Valley can be reached by just flying through a single open tile instead of using the coins+P Switch like intended)

Don't get me wrong. SMW is an awesome game and one of my all time favorites. But they rushed certain parts and went cheap (512KB ROM severely limit amount of sprites and variety of tiles).
The game engine and playing physics are super. Just look at the amount of ingenious romhacks with more modern graphics expanding the ROM size to several MB.


Even the first NSMB on DS doesn't suffer from such shortcomings in the technical aspects (graphics).

 

[E1ite007]

DS entry: Neat. The unique aspects of it make it kinda distinct from the next games and it suits perfectly the Nintendo DS for 2005.
Wii entry: Kinda cool I guess. Never played it multiplayer since I don't have any friend that likes platform games like this. Interesting level design and level gimmicks.
3DS entry: I like the level design better, but tbh is more boring than DS in all aspects. Even the powerups feel uninspired.
Wii U entry: Bullshit. Level design is good, but using the same art style and music from Wii for most components of the game is shit.
New Super Luigi U: Great. The cooler, harder levels are excellent and making Luigi the main character with his weird physics is totally refreshing for someone that doesn't tend to play with Luigi on platform Mario games.

Overall, meh. DS is my favorite for the distinct presentation and 2 is pretty pleasing to play along U, but most of them are boring and uninspired and I love the fact that Super Mario Wonder released since the New series got totally stale by 2013, more than a decade ago.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

It is a bit floaty. Didn't bother me much, though.
It's just an incredibly mediocre game series.

Going back to basics for the first game is okay, that allows them to take things in another direction instead of just building off of Super Mario World. But the next few games felt like the exact same thing, notable improvements never came. So what was even the point of going back to basics? Just to allow them to be more lazy? I'm sure that wasn't their intent, but that's what happened.
The level design feels uninspired. Levels are rather flat and linear, with the result that they all play more or less the same.

I think the thing about Super Mario World that makes it stand out is the level design. You generally have a lot more verticality, not to mention hidden exits. That helps make the levels less linear. But in addition to that, you have many levels with unique gameplay, like the ones involving riding on saws.
The NSMB series lacks most of that. Levels are mostly horizontal without any verticality, some levels are vertical but those are only a single screen wide so they feel even more linear than the horizontal levels.

I think they finally managed to make a less linear 2D Mario (more similar to Super Mario World) with Super Mario Wonder. Wonder flowers serve as the standin for secret exits, I won't say it's a 1:1 replacement because it's hard to beat discovering a Switch Palace or the Star Road in SMW, but it does a lot to make levels feel less linear, since touching one changes the level significantly.
Super Mario World remains my favorite 2D Mario, but Super Mario Wonder is still a significant improvement over NSMB.

 

[Coolsonickirby]

10/10 series just because of the multiplayer.

Which also means that Wonder is a 1/10 (1 because its a functioning game) because of how much they fucked up the multiplayer.

I genuinely do not care how "unique" wonder is, because "unique" != good. Having a gimmick per each level got old fast, sitting down and playing through the whole game single-player was one of the most boring experiences I've ever had (hell even NSMBDS final world gave me a bit of a challenge, Wonder is literally "Random AI input beatable" difficulty), and the bosses were majorly disappointing (even worse than Sonic Superstars bosses, which is saying something.) Trying out the multiplayer just made it even worse, since they butchered it hard by removing ALL physical interactions between players.

New Super Mario Bros. on the other hand had no uniqueness, but what it did have was a fun multiplayer. Even with only two people playing, the amount of fun you'd have was insane. Trying to work with each other, backstabbing the other just to get the giant coin for yourself, stealing powerups, teaming up and bouncing off and throwing each other to get somewhere unintended, performing murder-suicide by throwing everyone else off then killing yourself because why not, and just having fun with others in general. Even if I can't recall any stand out levels, I can recall the multiple moments I've had fun in that game when playing it with my parents, brothers, cousins, and friends.

As for New Super Mario Bros. DS, it was a pretty fun and solid platformer. Its multiplayer mode was also fun being a VS mode.

 

[Robert Newbie]

These are all great replies.

Ever noticed some oddity about Football Chuck?
Some of them throw baseballs . It's literally the same sprite as the charging Chucks running around and those tossing footballs . Not even a pallet change like common in this era.

Broken cape mechanic allowing pretty much level skip can't have been missed, but wasn't fixed.
Collision detection and eject routine is meh. Without being a talented speed runner exploiting the tiniest flaws with stunning precision it is possible to pass through narrow gaps. (Hidden exit of last Ghost House in Bowser Valley can be reached by just flying through a single open tile instead of using the coins+P Switch like intended)

Don't get me wrong. SMW is an awesome game and one of my all time favorites. But they rushed certain parts and went cheap (512KB ROM severely limit amount of sprites and variety of tiles).
The game engine and playing physics are super. Just look at the amount of ingenious romhacks with more modern graphics expanding the ROM size to several MB.


Even the first NSMB on DS doesn't suffer from such shortcomings in the technical aspects (graphics).

For all the times I played Super Mario World as a kid, I was never interested in glitching or speedrunning. So, I never came across those issues. It does make me wonder what the game would have looked like with a few more months in the oven (and more cartridge space).

DS entry: Neat. The unique aspects of it make it kinda distinct from the next games and it suits perfectly the Nintendo DS for 2005.
Wii entry: Kinda cool I guess. Never played it multiplayer since I don't have any friend that likes platform games like this. Interesting level design and level gimmicks.
3DS entry: I like the level design better, but tbh is more boring than DS in all aspects. Even the powerups feel uninspired.
Wii U entry: Bullshit. Level design is good, but using the same art style and music from Wii for most components of the game is shit.
New Super Luigi U: Great. The cooler, harder levels are excellent and making Luigi the main character with his weird physics is totally refreshing for someone that doesn't tend to play with Luigi on platform Mario games.

Overall, meh. DS is my favorite for the distinct presentation and 2 is pretty pleasing to play along U, but most of them are boring and uninspired and I love the fact that Super Mario Wonder released since the New series got totally stale by 2013, more than a decade ago.

Thanks for the breakdown. Based on this thread, NSMB DS seems to be the favorite. I never played New Super Luigi U, but I hear it's harder and more interesting than even the base game.

It is a bit floaty. Didn't bother me much, though.
It's just an incredibly mediocre game series.

Going back to basics for the first game is okay, that allows them to take things in another direction instead of just building off of Super Mario World. But the next few games felt like the exact same thing, notable improvements never came. So what was even the point of going back to basics? Just to allow them to be more lazy? I'm sure that wasn't their intent, but that's what happened.
The level design feels uninspired. Levels are rather flat and linear, with the result that they all play more or less the same.

I think the thing about Super Mario World that makes it stand out is the level design. You generally have a lot more verticality, not to mention hidden exits. That helps make the levels less linear. But in addition to that, you have many levels with unique gameplay, like the ones involving riding on saws.
The NSMB series lacks most of that. Levels are mostly horizontal without any verticality, some levels are vertical but those are only a single screen wide so they feel even more linear than the horizontal levels.

I think they finally managed to make a less linear 2D Mario (more similar to Super Mario World) with Super Mario Wonder. Wonder flowers serve as the standin for secret exits, I won't say it's a 1:1 replacement because it's hard to beat discovering a Switch Palace or the Star Road in SMW, but it does a lot to make levels feel less linear, since touching one changes the level significantly.
Super Mario World remains my favorite 2D Mario, but Super Mario Wonder is still a significant improvement over NSMB.

I really like this explanation. I think that vertical aspect of the level designs really did liven up a lot of the levels in Super Mario World. With that in mind, I can see how bland NSMB's slower and simpler levels can feel. Super Mario Bros. 3 was a great evolution of the horizontal designs of the original. SMW has just the right number of mechanics, from the regular jump to the spin jump. I think it all works together to give variety and strategy to each level. I'm starting to understand why NSMB hits me as uninspired.

10/10 series just because of the multiplayer.

Which also means that Wonder is a 1/10 (1 because its a functioning game) because of how much they fucked up the multiplayer.

I genuinely do not care how "unique" wonder is, because "unique" != good. Having a gimmick per each level got old fast, sitting down and playing through the whole game single-player was one of the most boring experiences I've ever had (hell even NSMBDS final world gave me a bit of a challenge, Wonder is literally "Random AI input beatable" difficulty), and the bosses were majorly disappointing (even worse than Sonic Superstars bosses, which is saying something.) Trying out the multiplayer just made it even worse, since they butchered it hard by removing ALL physical interactions between players.

New Super Mario Bros. on the other hand had no uniqueness, but what it did have was a fun multiplayer. Even with only two people playing, the amount of fun you'd have was insane. Trying to work with each other, backstabbing the other just to get the giant coin for yourself, stealing powerups, teaming up and bouncing off and throwing each other to get somewhere unintended, performing murder-suicide by throwing everyone else off then killing yourself because why not, and just having fun with others in general. Even if I can't recall any stand out levels, I can recall the multiple moments I've had fun in that game when playing it with my parents, brothers, cousins, and friends.

As for New Super Mario Bros. DS, it was a pretty fun and solid platformer. Its multiplayer mode was also fun being a VS mode.

It's interesting how the multiplayer can change someone's opinion of a game. I still haven't played Wonder, but I am curious where my opinion will fall. Will I find the game gimmicky or creative? Will I find it NSMB bland or SMW challenging?

 

[Kraken_X]

Ever noticed some oddity about Football Chuck?
Some of them throw baseballs . It's literally the same sprite as the charging Chucks running around and those tossing footballs . Not even a pallet change like common in this era.

Broken cape mechanic allowing pretty much level skip can't have been missed, but wasn't fixed.
Collision detection and eject routine is meh. Without being a talented speed runner exploiting the tiniest flaws with stunning precision it is possible to pass through narrow gaps. (Hidden exit of last Ghost House in Bowser Valley can be reached by just flying through a single open tile instead of using the coins+P Switch like intended)

Don't get me wrong. SMW is an awesome game and one of my all time favorites. But they rushed certain parts and went cheap (512KB ROM severely limit amount of sprites and variety of tiles).
The game engine and playing physics are super. Just look at the amount of ingenious romhacks with more modern graphics expanding the ROM size to several MB.


Even the first NSMB on DS doesn't suffer from such shortcomings in the technical aspects (graphics).

The thing is that the issues you mention are actually some of my favorite things about SMW. You don't just get the cape and immediately be able to cheese levels. You have to fly correctly, which takes so much skill that I still haven't gotten the hang of it 100%. The cape took a ton of effort and time to master as a kid. But once I did the amount of cool stuff you can pull off, especially including Yoshi and items is unmatched. Blue Yoshi does let you cheese levels, but it only appears in one semi-hidden level with the wings to convert a normal Yoshi appearing in just 3 more. So it was something the player had to intentionally seek out.

Another thing I loved about SMW is the ability to exit a stage (start+select) and keep your powers. It reduced the grind of "I need this one power to proceed so now I have to replay a level to get it" so much and meant that I could do all cape runs and other fun things easily and quickly. I really really wish they would bring that back even if it is "broken". I'm so sick of replaying the entire level 1-1 in Mario 3D World every time I need to get the cat suit.

Variable difficulty is something that Nintendo has mastered, and SMW is where it started. I spent hours trying to get the stupid coins to go where they were supposed to in the Bowser's Valley Ghost House before realizing I could just fly in. That's great design! Not being trapped behind a single difficult level (or gimmick) was a huge perk compared to the NES days where the turbo tunnel stage is basically just the end of Battletoads. The player had the option to choose how difficult of a game they wanted to play. You could go for all the dragon coins with no powerups, or you could choose to Blue Yoshi cheese the whole game. There is no penalty at all for playing how you want to. And the level design didn't need to pull any punches because less capable players always had a way to make it easier.

Wonder handles difficulty a bit differently, but with a similar concept. As others have mentioned, the levels are generally very easy. There are a few difficult ones, but they aren't essential to even play to beat the game and get the normal ending. On the world map it tells you how hard a level is going to be so that your less capable co-op partner can steel themselves for it. Even the hard levels generally aren't that hard though. But each level has three big coins (similar to NSMB). Getting those is a lot more of a challenge. And getting all of them requires a lot of skill. There is also an achievment for getting the top of the goalpost in every level for even more challenge.

In Wonder, you get to choose a badge before each level. Some make the game easier, and some make the game much harder. Like SMW it's the player's choice with no penalty. Picking Yoshi or Nabbit for your character gives you unlimited health, which again lets you choose your difficulty with no penalty. If you (in a general sense) think it's pathetically easy because you played as Yoshi, skipped half the levels, picked the badge that lets you bounce out of pits, and ignored the big coins, that's on the player. But that level of accessiblity is how you get people interested enough to become master players, especially kids.

Side note, the final secret level (badge rush) in Wonder is quite possibly the hardest level in any Mario game. It took us about 4 hours in co-op and it ended up being the only level where I played as Yoshi.

 

[Robert Newbie]

The thing is that the issues you mention are actually some of my favorite things about SMW. You don't just get the cape and immediately be able to cheese levels. You have to fly correctly, which takes so much skill that I still haven't gotten the hang of it 100%. The cape took a ton of effort and time to master as a kid. But once I did the amount of cool stuff you can pull off, especially including Yoshi and items is unmatched. Blue Yoshi does let you cheese levels, but it only appears in one semi-hidden level with the wings to convert a normal Yoshi appearing in just 3 more. So it was something the player had to intentionally seek out.

Another thing I loved about SMW is the ability to exit a stage (start+select) and keep your powers. It reduced the grind of "I need this one power to proceed so now I have to replay a level to get it" so much and meant that I could do all cape runs and other fun things easily and quickly. I really really wish they would bring that back even if it is "broken". I'm so sick of replaying the entire level 1-1 in Mario 3D World every time I need to get the cat suit.

Variable difficulty is something that Nintendo has mastered, and SMW is where it started. I spent hours trying to get the stupid coins to go where they were supposed to in the Bowser's Valley Ghost House before realizing I could just fly in. That's great design! Not being trapped behind a single difficult level (or gimmick) was a huge perk compared to the NES days where the turbo tunnel stage is basically just the end of Battletoads. The player had the option to choose how difficult of a game they wanted to play. You could go for all the dragon coins with no powerups, or you could choose to Blue Yoshi cheese the whole game. There is no penalty at all for playing how you want to. And the level design didn't need to pull any punches because less capable players always had a way to make it easier.

Wonder handles difficulty a bit differently, but with a similar concept. As others have mentioned, the levels are generally very easy. There are a few difficult ones, but they aren't essential to even play to beat the game and get the normal ending. On the world map it tells you how hard a level is going to be so that your less capable co-op partner can steel themselves for it. Even the hard levels generally aren't that hard though. But each level has three big coins (similar to NSMB). Getting those is a lot more of a challenge. And getting all of them requires a lot of skill. There is also an achievment for getting the top of the goalpost in every level for even more challenge.

In Wonder, you get to choose a badge before each level. Some make the game easier, and some make the game much harder. Like SMW it's the player's choice with no penalty. Picking Yoshi or Nabbit for your character gives you unlimited health, which again lets you choose your difficulty with no penalty. If you (in a general sense) think it's pathetically easy because you played as Yoshi, skipped half the levels, picked the badge that lets you bounce out of pits, and ignored the big coins, that's on the player. But that level of accessiblity is how you get people interested enough to become master players, especially kids.

Side note, the final secret level (badge rush) in Wonder is quite possibly the hardest level in any Mario game. It took us about 4 hours in co-op and it ended up being the only level where I played as Yoshi.

Nintendo likes to put an ultra-difficult level in their Mario games. Super Mario 3D World has Champion's Road, and I guess Wonder has that final secret level.

I like how the game design can be interpreted so many ways. Was it the intent of the developers to allow for different possibilities or was it the result of a rushed development? Does the game benefit or suffer from the design choices? In the end, Super Mario World is considered one of the best games ever made so maybe it's just right as-is.


I'm still garbage at the last part of Turbo Tunnel. There are warp zones in Battletoads, but they just lead to other levels in Battletoads.

 

[Quore]

DS Ver. - Great
Wii Ver. - Very good
Wii U / Switch Ver. - Good
3DS Ver. - Go f*ck yourselves, Nintendo

Mario Wonder looks like it borrows from the NSMB formula, but it's not yet another recycled NSMB game, rather its own new game so at least it has that going for it.

I think someone didn't like the 3DS version