Pokemon Legends Arceus GOTY? Crysis 4 & nothing more - Tempcast #73

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Sometimes we talk about news on this podcast. Well, we tried this episode, starting off about Crysis 4, then it devolved into a debate about whether or not LEGO games are real games (spoiler: they aren't), and then we just talked about Legends Arceus for like 30 minutes. I'm sorry for the people who actually expected a cohesive podcast experience detailing the latest news in the gaming world, but this one just ain't it. But hey, there's actually an alternative version of this episode with all of that somewhere on the internet! Can you find it?


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Slinger

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Oh, I have so much to say... sorry if this post gets long... first of all sorry to hear you lost the first recording. Those kinds of things are always frustrating.:( Wasn't there a recent EoFCast episode recording where things also went bad?

Regarding the "lego games aren't games" thing: this is clearly a case of just needing more clarity. At first it sounded like an oxymoron. Then with the example "lego SW is not a real SW game", I can understand (and respect, but not quite agree on) your point; it's a non-canon re-imagining of the franchise (but hardly the first among all the SW games). But then "lego games are cash-grab"... now this is a completely different point, but once again I can see what you mean. But these days is there any AAA game that isn't a cash-grab? Between micro-transactions, bad paid DLC (+pay-to-win) and over-spending on ads and visuals for very unoriginal/generic gameplay, it's hard not to see all of them as lazy cash-grabs. In contrast the original lego SW games still holds up (after ALMOST 20 YEARS!... oh god I feel old:O) and any "advertisement" for lego sets is too old to be relevant (even if you're a fan of Chinese repros...).

And don't get me started on lego racers - sure it was advertising the themes at the time, but the cars were never sold as products (which would have been the most obvious choice). And you could build your own driver and car as you liked. (released in 1999... did I say I feel old yet?:O:O). Oh and to twist things up a bit: the lego batman movie. Many critics have praised it from the view as an actual batman movie, in fact many consider it to also be the best batman parody so far (again, ignoring the lego theme itself).


And now for something completely different: Arceus definitely looks interesting. I've only really played the first two gen. games, but kept telling myself to look back into the series. The "Let's go" games were interesting but I never bothered (too much of the "pokemon go" concept). This looks like a healthy mix of the freedom+direct capture from pokemon go and the underlying combat+rpg idea from the original games (and monster hunter). Also is the protagonist not 10 years old, like in the original game? I wonder why they picked 15 years this time? Maybe it reflects an older target demography? It would have been cool to be able to set your own age to make it more personal, at least for older players (but I guess then we end up with bethesda-style face modelling and all that silly stuff).

Chary, have you tried moving your install to NAND instead of the SD card? I think I had a few areas of stutter in metroid dread because of my SD card, because in some large areas parts would load while moving around. Something similar can be the case here if it's loading in models during gameplay... The NAND is Much faster than SD (and somewhat faster than the Gamecard). I also hear people have been able to get pretty stable 60fps in handheld mode using a 60fps cheat and sys-clk (and maybe reversenx? I'm not sure). But if the SD is the bottleneck then that's hard to get around.


Oh, regarding pokemon r34 (and any other kind of fanart): I don't understand why people would find the humans interesting? I mean anyone to their own, but the originality is in the monsters, not the generic(-ish) humans. And if that is sexually or just visually interesting doesn't really matter (:creep:). But then I guess the humans are now given more room to be characters in the modern games? Oh, actually maybe also in the anime, I guess.
 

AlanJohn

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Oh, I have so much to say... sorry if this post gets long... first of all sorry to hear you lost the first recording. Those kinds of things are always frustrating.:( Wasn't there a recent EoFCast episode recording where things also went bad?
The original episode 73 is out there, somewhere... :ninja:
 
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Chary

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Chary, have you tried moving your install to NAND instead of the SD card? I think I had a few areas of stutter in metroid dread because of my SD card, because in some large areas parts would load while moving around. Something similar can be the case here if it's loading in models during gameplay... The NAND is Much faster than SD (and somewhat faster than the Gamecard). I also hear people have been able to get pretty stable 60fps in handheld mode using a 60fps cheat and sys-clk (and maybe reversenx? I'm not sure). But if the SD is the bottleneck then that's hard to get around.
After the episode, I ended up playing it both on cart and on nand, and the stutter was completely gone! I didn't expect the SD card to cause such a horrible drop on performance D:

Thanks for the idea! Maybe I'll look into the 60fps thing too :D
 

Slinger

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The original episode 73 is out there, somewhere... :ninja:
Hang on... *searches*
"You found it! [...]"
Huh? I wasn't sure you were pulling my leg or something. Neat, I'll have to give it a listen. Now this begs the question (sorry for derailing), does this mean EoFCast #45 is out there somewhere? You said something about December 10... maybe you weren't just referring to International Day Against DRM?:P

edit: Awww... only 1.5 minutes?:rofl2:

After the episode, I ended up playing it both on cart and on nand, and the stutter was completely gone! I didn't expect the SD card to cause such a horrible drop on performance D:

Thanks for the idea! Maybe I'll look into the 60fps thing too :D
Nice to hear! Honestly I think you were already suspecting it. Can I ask what kind of SD card it was? I was using a kingston canvas select (128GB) when I had some (small) stuttering in dread. The card seems to have pretty high performance, so I suspect maybe the SD read/write speeds of the switch itself might be too low for some of their own games (no matter the SD card). That would be a nasty surprise. :unsure: Oh and this somehow reminds me of SD vs USB speeds on the Wii...
 
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Ritsuki

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Just finished the main quest on Arceus, not gonna lie, I'm a bit disappointed... It was nice and refreshing but somehow the gameplay mechanisms are very bland, it's very repetitive for an "action" game and not deep and versatile enough (like a Monster Hunter) to keep it interesting. And IMHO there's a problem with how the mechanisms are blended into the lore.
All of the subquests are pretty boring and except for a few very useful items, the rewards are anecdotic.
I think I liked the simplification on IV/EV though, made things easier when changing your team. Coupled with the fact that you can find more powerful and high level versions of pokemons, it's really easy to make a viable team, even if it kind of makes no sense to spend much time training them, but it's not a problem for me, it's not a main game, so we shouldn't expect the same experience.
My biggest disappointment is with the lore, I thought I was going to discover the origins of Pokémon, but there's little to no explanations (still have to finish post game though),and some of them are not very consistent (but it's a problem with many games of the franchise).
 

raxadian

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Gamefreak really should know how to maje games for the Switch by now, yet they keep having the same performance issues.
 

Slinger

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It's the 512GB model from Silicon Power,I forget the model, but it should be noted here. Never had any issues with it until Arceus.
Thanks a lot! Personally I find this very interesting, but please tell me (or just ignore me) if I'm being burdensome. I'm just so interested in figuring this out...

It seems strange to me that they would release the game without testing performance when running on SD. After all the NAND is too small for many users so it'd be a common scenario.:huh:

I know you're pretty hardcore, so I guess there's no issue in the SD setup? FAT32 with 64kB clusters, properly aligned (and also on a properly aligned partition)? From my experience hekate will to all of this correctly automatically, but manually partitioning and formatting (on windows...:glare:) tends to result in less fine-tuned results.

Or could it be the SD card? Based on your benchmarks it seems to be right around the max speed of the switch, but there are more variables like access time and non-continuous reads. I found out that hekate has a nice benchmarking tool built-in (which also shows random/non-sequential speeds), it might be worth giving it a try, if you feel like it.

Oh! In your review you mention stuttering when saving... is it possible (although unlikely) that arceus also saves every time it spawns a pokemon? Or it could also be an indicator that this card has weak random/non-sequential reads/writes. :wacko:

What I find interesting is that it seems like fast SD cards should be around the same speed as gamecards, maybe even faster (it seems I was wrong when I said the gamecards would be faster)... but again there are more variables than just raw speed, and there's surprisingly little data on the GC speeds. Some say it's around 100MB/s, but I've seen no proper benchmark proving it (and absolutely no non-sequential/random speed tests). At least I can say SD is just above 90MB/s and NAND is almost exactly on 300MB/s (for large sequential reads).

I know... I should try arceus myself and compare... I just don't have enough time to spare at the moment.
 

raxadian

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This is not the first Pokemon game on the Switch with performance issues.

Then again is also not the first Pokemon game on the Switch.

Gamefreak has really got lazy with their Pokemon games.
 

Slinger

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Sure, but since Chary got less (or no) stuttering when using a gamecard, and a gamecard shouldn't be faster than a fast SD [*citation needed*], it makes me wonder if this is related to the specific SD or the setup (partitioning/formatting).

But if not, if this is actually caused by a bottleneck (like the switch SD card reader causing significantly slower access times compared to gamecards), then this is a serious oversight. And it could be a big problem for all who wants the eShop version, but can't install it to NAND (for various reasons).
 

AlanJohn

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Hang on... *searches*
"You found it! [...]"
Huh? I wasn't sure you were pulling my leg or something. Neat, I'll have to give it a listen. Now this begs the question (sorry for derailing), does this mean EoFCast #45 is out there somewhere? You said something about December 10... maybe you weren't just referring to International Day Against DRM?:P

edit: Awww... only 1.5 minutes?
Sorry that was an issue with the export. It's fixed now. The full version is up.
 

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