Poll: did Trump really win the 2020 election?

[USUKDecks]

Trump supporters are beyond retarded....don't know what a more accurate word would be because they are beyond stupid, beyond dumb, beyond ignorant.

For all you trumpTARDS, you do realize that trump's name is on THE SAME F*CKIN BALLOT as everybody else that was voted for on THAT ballot! Its IMPOSSIBLE to ONLY cheat just for trump! That would mean that other republicans on that ballot who actually won, should NOT have won either because apparently some how the ballot was ONLY changed for trump and not any other republican on the same ballot???

Give me a break! This guy CLEARLY hates democracy, he wants a d!cktatorship and his traitorous cult who constantly scream "america" and adorn themselves with flags, are only using all that as a prop. Their care NOTHING about the true fundamentals of actual freedom and what is key to the foundation of the USA. These traitors think in their universe that
the fall of democracy would be soooooo much better. Yeah because we've seen time and time and time again throughout tens of thousands of years of history how well that has worked out for the "people"

spoiler alert.... it NEVER worked out for them, only for the rulers in charge and in some case not for them either.

 

[tiamat999]

HIS NAME WAS SETH RICH

 

[omgcat]

people confuse complex with easy to manipulate. our election system is so complex, it is basically impossible to tamper with it. there's like 6 layers that you would need to manipulate per vote. you'd have to fake an identity, get it onto the rolls past human checks, then vote, passing hand count authenticity checks. you would then need your fake vote to not trip computer validation, and pass hand checked recounts. repeat all those steps millions of times. people get yelled at every election for misspelling their names, let alone trying to magic up new ones. one big hallmark of conspiracies is the simplification of extremely complex processes. most conspiracy theorists couldn't even explain how regular local government works, let alone how it could be manipulated. hundreds of millions of eyes are everywhere looking at everything, good luck trying to pull a sneaky.

 

[x65943]

people confuse complex with easy to manipulate. our election system is so complex, it is basically impossible to tamper with it. there's like 6 layers that you would need to manipulate per vote. you'd have to fake an identity, get it onto the rolls past human checks, then vote, passing hand count authenticity checks. you would then need your fake vote to not trip computer validation, and pass hand checked recounts. repeat all those steps millions of times. people get yelled at every election for misspelling their names, let alone trying to magic up new ones. one big hallmark of conspiracies is the simplification of extremely complex processes. most conspiracy theorists couldn't even explain how regular local government works, let alone how it could be manipulated. hundreds of millions of eyes are everywhere looking at everything, good luck trying to pull a sneaky.

The one thing I will say is with razor thin margins in some states, if anything thrown out mail in ballots due to simple errors or mismanagement at the postal service could have potentially thrown the election to Trump

 

[KingVamp]

Meanwhile, I'm missing poll options that the senate races should be investigated.

You may very well be right. Link

 

[Sicklyboy]

people confuse complex with easy to manipulate. our election system is so complex, it is basically impossible to tamper with it. there's like 6 layers that you would need to manipulate per vote. you'd have to fake an identity, get it onto the rolls past human checks, then vote, passing hand count authenticity checks. you would then need your fake vote to not trip computer validation, and pass hand checked recounts. repeat all those steps millions of times. people get yelled at every election for misspelling their names, let alone trying to magic up new ones. one big hallmark of conspiracies is the simplification of extremely complex processes. most conspiracy theorists couldn't even explain how regular local government works, let alone how it could be manipulated. hundreds of millions of eyes are everywhere looking at everything, good luck trying to pull a sneaky.

Adding additional votes, yes, likely challenging. Maliciously changing votes cast on the 20 year old voting systems used in many parts of the country, not always difficult. Doing so in a way that still evades detection? Probably challenging.

I'm not saying that anything DID happen, but I personally don't feel that the statement "it is basically impossible to tamper with" paints an accurate or complete picture when voting machines in many parts of the US provide NO paper trail whatsoever. The machines in my state, for example, use a laminated overlay on top of a multi-button control surface, like a giant version of the overlays for the Intellivision controllers. You press the "button" on the overlay and it registers that selection. You push the buttons you want, push "Cast Ballot", and walk away. I have ZERO way, whatsoever, of knowing that my button press for Joe Blow actually counted for Joe Blow, or if the software on the machine was tampered with beforehand or after, and my vote instead went to John Q Public against my wishes. With the mail-in ballots, I can 100% guarantee in the comfort of my own home that I selected the candidate I wanted to, and dropped my ballot in a county-provided secure drop box near the police station, with 24/7 camera coverage over the box and multiple pickups each day. Alternatively, I can bring it straight to the county clerk and drop it off in-person. From there, yes, I don't know what happens to it after that at the county board of elections, but I have more trust that my ballot will be tabulated properly from that process than from a magic black-box of a button machine.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/def-con-18-kids-young-challenged-hack-election/story?id=57122727
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...ica-florida-state-website-in-under-10-minutes
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/7550...vulnerabilities-facing-2020-election-machines
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54378961
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-vulnerabilities-of-our-voting-machines/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...w-to-hack-an-election-in-seven-minutes-214144

 

[Xzi]

The one thing I will say is with razor thin margins in some states, if anything thrown out mail in ballots due to simple errors or mismanagement at the postal service could have potentially thrown the election to Trump

And apples potentially could've been oranges if they had just wished hard enough. Trump's margins in 2016 were even thinner (Clinton actually won the popular vote), and still there was minimal delay in concession (the next morning IIRC) and no delay in transition. I'm not sure why the instinct for Republicans is always to reject democracy when confronted with evidence that their platform and and policies are unpopular, rather than simply adapting them to the 21st century. Hell, even the 20th century would probably be an improvement for America's right-wing as it stands now.

 

[omgcat]

Adding additional votes, yes, likely challenging. Maliciously changing votes cast on the 20 year old voting systems used in many parts of the country, not always difficult. Doing so in a way that still evades detection? Probably challenging.

I'm not saying that anything DID happen, but I personally don't feel that the statement "it is basically impossible to tamper with" paints an accurate or complete picture when voting machines in many parts of the US provide NO paper trail whatsoever. The machines in my state, for example, use a laminated overlay on top of a multi-button control surface, like a giant version of the overlays for the Intellivision controllers. You press the "button" on the overlay and it registers that selection. You push the buttons you want, push "Cast Ballot", and walk away. I have ZERO way, whatsoever, of knowing that my button press for Joe Blow actually counted for Joe Blow, or if the software on the machine was tampered with beforehand or after, and my vote instead went to John Q Public against my wishes. With the mail-in ballots, I can 100% guarantee in the comfort of my own home that I selected the candidate I wanted to, and dropped my ballot in a county-provided secure drop box near the police station, with 24/7 camera coverage over the box and multiple pickups each day. Alternatively, I can bring it straight to the county clerk and drop it off in-person. From there, yes, I don't know what happens to it after that at the county board of elections, but I have more trust that my ballot will be tabulated properly from that process than from a magic black-box of a button machine.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/def-con-18-kids-young-challenged-hack-election/story?id=57122727
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...ica-florida-state-website-in-under-10-minutes
https://www.npr.org/2019/09/04/7550...vulnerabilities-facing-2020-election-machines
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54378961
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-vulnerabilities-of-our-voting-machines/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...w-to-hack-an-election-in-seven-minutes-214144

mail in ballots 100%, fuck electric voting machines. however the voting machines used in my local area print the ballot out behind glass so you can verify what was selected, and if need be redo your selection in which the old one is shredded in place. you get a receipt which can be verified later as well. you'll find most of the area's that used bullshit voting machines lean HEAVILY red.

but mostly i was tackling the myth of "millions of illegal immigrants voting". If an illegal alien actually tried voting in my area (Bay area, CA) they'd get obliterated by the state. CA doesn't fuck around with election security.

also i cannot get a straight answer about why the dems would cheat to put the president in place instead of packing the senate. like if we are capable of cheating in massive numbers in tens of states, why wouldn't we just pack a majority in the senate, then full impeach trump+pence and go for president pelosi?

like why go exclusively for the lower chamber, and the presidency, but not the most important of the 3?

 

[DarkFlare69]

I believe Biden won legitimately. I also believe there was some sort of fraud, but it was not widespread at all and not facilitated by Biden or any of his affiliates. Individual people may have done shady things here and there, such as voting in a dead family member's name or something similar, but these are individual cases. At the absolute very maximum, I would guess that there are maybe 1000 illegitimate votes from each state. Not nearly enough to shift the election in any way. There's no way Trump will get a 2nd term and if you think he will then you're delusional.

 

[Foxi4]

Everything depends on your definition of "cheating". The rules surrounding voting laws, and mail-in ballots specifically, were gradually changed over the course of 2019, culminating in the permission for late-arriving ballots, in some cases without a postmark. As far as I'm concerned, the framers of the constitution established an Election Day, not an Election Month, and they did so in a time when voters would travel by horse and buggy over treacherous terrain in order to vote - I don't think the current situation is even remotely on the same level as far as obstacles go. There is no constitutionally enshrined duty to vote in America - you vote on Election Day or you choose to vote by mail at an earlier date - early enough to account for delivery. If you didn't make it before the deadline, I don't see why the state should make any concessions to tabulate your vote - you were late, sorry. If the election was fair and by the book, it would've been done and dusted on the day.

That’s neither here nor there though - I think we saw a historic turnout and both candidates did exceptionally well within their respective camps. Trump may have lost as far as the current count is concerned, but I'm quite satisfied with the huge gains made in the house and senate, which leads me to believe that his mission of changing the direction and tenor of political discourse in America was a success, which is all I had ever hoped for. It was good to see the White House be a house of the people for four years, now it can be the house of the establishment politicians again, but you can't turn the cultural shift around anymore, which is a good thing. I suspect we will see similar gains in 2022, and if the GOP stumbles upon a good candidate, 2024 is going to be interesting.

In regards to fraud, I think it's childish to believe that no fraud at all has occurred - people cheat at parlor games where the stakes are almost nothing, anyone who thinks that no cheating takes place when the stakes are astronomical is a fool. Whether or not it was isolated instances by rogue actors or a co-ordinated effort is not for me to decide - any allegations of fraud should be investigated, even if only to maintain the public's trust in the system.

Do I think the election results can be overturned? I don't think so, at least not based on the current legal challenges. Trump's team would have to establish that the tabulation system was unreliable from a technical standpoint, and as such, its tabulation cannot be trusted, which would be a huge feat. Some of the "glitches" certainly point to that conclusion, but one would have to show that these problems occurred in multiple locations - I'm sure not all of the miscalculations were caught there and then.

In any case, it sure was a tight election season. Highly entertaining and full of twists and turns, that's for certain.

 

[BlueFox gui]

i'm pretty sure that THERE WAS a fraud, because I should be the North United Tiranicamerican president, where are my votes??

 

[gregory-samba]

I believe that Biden probably is going to get voted in by the Electoral College. For those of you unaware the Electoral College usually votes the same as their district did, which means Biden is probably going to be the next United States of America President. However, just like any other vote, it's not final until the actual voting takes place. We've had the population vote in the popular vote, but that doesn't decide who wins the election. The Electoral College is who votes for the actual next President and they don't start voting for another 3 or so weeks.

 

[simsimsim]

Even if it's possible to cheat on a large scale, it would necessarily mean that both the left AND the right sides have voters who cheated, and since Biden still won by few million more votes, it's just pointless to debate this issue.
Anyone who believes that only one side's voters will cheat when it's possible to do so are beyond delusional.

 

[Smoker1]

OK, for Trump Supporters - Please, do enlighten us, as to how someone can cast multiple Votes, or as Giuliani Claims, upward up to 50 potential Votes.

 

[gregory-samba]

OK, for Trump Supporters - Please, do enlighten us, as to how someone can cast multiple Votes, or as Giuliani Claims, upward up to 50 potential Votes.

I'm not aware of anyone on this forum that personally knows Mr. Giuliani or can read minds so it would be a lie to claim you know what he's talking about. Why don't you email Mr. Giuliani and ask him?

 

[seany1990]

trump lost get over it murica. when the libs got re-elected here you didn't see us rioting through the streets. we just sucked it up and accepted higher taxes, more expensive petrol, amenities prices doubled, rent rated doubled and the country slowly going to shit as the rich get richer and the poor turn into peasants..

You need to stop drinking the Murdoch coolaid, this is exactly what I would see from Fox News, The Daily Mail and the Australian

 

[Smoker1]

You need to stop drinking the Murdoch coolaid, this is exactly what I would see from Fox News, The Daily Mail and the Australian

Hell, I could care less about either Trump, or Biden. But unless there is absolute actual Documented PROOF that there was Fraud, Trump Lost and is just whining like a baby.

 

[x65943]

And apples potentially could've been oranges if they had just wished hard enough. Trump's margins in 2016 were even thinner (Clinton actually won the popular vote), and still there was minimal delay in concession (the next morning IIRC) and no delay in transition. I'm not sure why the instinct for Republicans is always to reject democracy when confronted with evidence that their platform and and policies are unpopular, rather than simply adapting them to the 21st century. Hell, even the 20th century would probably be an improvement for America's right-wing as it stands now.

I'm not sure if you read something into my post that wasn't there, but to be clear my whole point was basically that if fraud could tip the election either way it would have most likely been to Trump more than Biden

 

[Xzi]

I'm not sure if you read something into my post that wasn't there, but to be clear my whole point was basically that if fraud could tip the election either way it would have most likely been to Trump more than Biden

That's incorrect though, there were like 10-20 confirmed cases of fraud. Mostly Trump supporters too, but not enough to reverse the results no matter who had hit 270 electoral votes.

 

[The Catboy]

If there was literally any kind of rigging, Mitch McConnell wouldn't have won another term.