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The "Humanitarian" Aid to Venezuela

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Saiyan Lusitano

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They try to hide that they just want to take down Maduro like they did with Gadaffi, and tried it with Assad too, but at least Assad remains protected and alive. Think of what Libya was and became because it's looking more and more like what the US govt wants for Venezuela/Maduro.

Sure, you can call it a "conspiracy" but the politicians claiming to be "humanitarian" are always making threats and comparisons. Maduro will attempt to defend his beloved country till death, but with people thinking of him as a "dictator" and supporting US/Guaidó it's evident this is heading towards a very ugly path.

You know, once the media starts portraying a person in a certain way, the masses believe it and will either love or hate him/her because for most, their source of news are the usual stations and they think they're always telling nothing but the truth, well, okay see how that turns out. Democracy at its finest. :)
 
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Xzi

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I don't think the US should get involved in any capacity here, but I know that's unlikely to be the outcome since Trump is just itching for an excuse. It's hard for me to form strong opinions one way or another without being inside the country, as the situation is fairly complicated. The people elected Maduro, now it seems they don't want him any more, but there's also a possibility the election was rigged in the first place. Who knows.
 

notimp

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Then the argument would still be to have the country sort this out on its own. (Or help, if the current head of state asks for it. What the US did is to first denounce the acting head of state. Then support another one. Then talk to him about a potential miletary intervention. ;) ) In theory.

In practice of course not... It has oil. ;)

The aid would actually have been fine. According to the V. foreign minister they basically feared that the US aid would buy the US sympathy with the people - and then aid an invasion.

So they only took aid from Russia and SA countries.

Thats some tough logic at work as well. (As always with US colonial history, there have been cases in the past, where this has happened. ;)).
 
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bodefuceta

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Not the same thing at all. Maduro is a dictator who rigs elections and is hated by most of his people, but remains there because the petrol cash was used in forming a huge state militia.

Most lybians loved gaddafi, sure he was also somewhat "socialist" and had petrol cash, but used it actually developing his nation. He was most likely bombed for not doing petrodollars like who would succeed him.
 

The Catboy

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I don't think the US should get involved in any capacity here, but I know that's unlikely to be the outcome since Trump is just itching for an excuse. It's hard for me to form strong opinions one way or another without being inside the country, as the situation is fairly complicated. The people elected Maduro, now it seems they don't want him any more, but there's also a possibility the election was rigged in the first place. Who knows.
It's unlikely because they have oil.
 
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kevin corms

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I don't think the US should get involved in any capacity here, but I know that's unlikely to be the outcome since Trump is just itching for an excuse. It's hard for me to form strong opinions one way or another without being inside the country, as the situation is fairly complicated. The people elected Maduro, now it seems they don't want him any more, but there's also a possibility the election was rigged in the first place. Who knows.
This goes way beyond Trump, I cant remember a president who didnt pull this sort of thing off.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

It's unlikely because they have oil.
Its more complicated than just wanting oil, the Americans are protecting their dollar.
 
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ombus

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A way for USA to get free oil and with a justified reason already there ? pfff surprised it took this long. lets keep the bingo for the next country to be invaded. maybe this time there will be nuclear weapons.
 

notimp

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Not the same thing at all. Maduro is a dictator who rigs elections and is hated by most of his people, but remains there because the petrol cash was used in forming a huge state militia.

Most lybians loved gaddafi, sure he was also somewhat "socialist" and had petrol cash, but used it actually developing his nation. He was most likely bombed for not doing petrodollars like who would succeed him.
Does the US now fight a war against dictatorships? At least a financial war? Because I dont remember that being a thing. Also - Maduro was voted into office, and there are elections, and.. Ok scratch that, he basically is a dictator... ;) Not officially declared. There are 50 dictatorships in the world still.

The rest is basically the story of every "peoples revolution". After the fact. :) Its usually a game to have enough people staying hungry and without perspectives, that they start to revolt. Every interested party does their part for or against it.

As for who is responsible. Well, the US and the EU say, that Maduro is a usurpator, the rest is like with football, you have your teams.

Currently there is still ongoing diplomacy (partly because Maduro seems to have popular support, partly thanks to the military) - so there is still hope, that there will be a peaceful solution.

(Probably: Deals all around, then Maduro goes to exile in Europe, for publicity reasons. ;) )
 
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notimp

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Truth is the first thing that dies in war. Even financial ones. :) At this stage, its likely propaganda from either side. (Everything goes in terms of communications.)
 
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lordpsycho

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Hi, I'm from Peru.
Everyday, I see many venezuelans on the streets asking for money or something to eat, selling candy or singing in public transportation to get some coins, most of them claim to be doctors, lawyers, engineers who can't work here, and those who can work are mostly cashiers or cleaning crew. Also, many criminal gangs have venezuelans either working with them or are formed exclusively by them, and all of this is just from the last 2 years...
I'm not sure about Trump's intentions, but Maduro has to go one way or the other, and Venezuela needs to be part of the international comunity and give their people the opportunities and quality of life they deserve.

...just MHO
 
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kevin corms

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Hi, I'm from Peru.
Everyday, I see many venezuelans on the streets asking for money or something to eat, selling candy or singing in public transportation to get some coins, most of them claim to be doctors, lawyers, engineers who can't work here, and those who can work are mostly cashiers or cleaning crew. Also, many criminal gangs have venezuelans either working with them or are formed exclusively by them, and all of this is just from the last 2 years...
I'm not sure about Trump's intentions, but Maduro has to go one way or the other, and Venezuela needs to be part of the international comunity and give their people the opportunities and quality of live they deserve.

...just MHO
Theres way more to it than just that, look at the sanctions the americans have put on the country. It would not matter who was in charge as long as those sanctions remain. Now two things can be true at once, but lets not kid ourselves. the americans wouldnt even be there if there wasnt something for them, and they have a dark history of doing this.
 
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SagaP

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Mmm i'm all about peace, but maduro depleted all democratic and peaceful opportunities he had.

Is sad to see people are still seeing him as a president or that we "elected" him, wen he just stop listening to the parliament makes himself a new one, and then call to elections, the parties who weren't banned decided not to participate because this elections were called by an illegitimate parliament.
Some sees them as radical and fresh leaders, that work for the people, wen they're the richest people here, they use all the profit of the country for them self and to maintain power, while doing and protecting criminal activities.

People call this a cuop, Call Guaido "self-declared", Maduro stooped doing democracy a long time ago, and Guaido and the parliament are the last remaining bit of democracy we still have.
And every time people got to the street to protest against these thing, they were met with violence.

One thing is true, it is not US responsibility to solve our problems, but we appreciate the help, because we can not longer win alone, even coming from someone whom our ideologies clash, even when we mocked him even.

We know they have motives: Oil, the fear of communism, A potencial Strategical located ally, we know our exodus is something that creates discomfort, no matter what.

Some sees this motives as evil, but we need those things, and we profited from that as well.
Now or resources goes overseas and we get nothing, the private industries were we worked are now seized by the government are longer productive.

Theres way more to it than just that, look at the sanctions the Americans have put on the country. It would not matter who was in charge as long as those sanctions remain. Now two things can be true at once, but lets not kid ourselves. the americans wouldnt even be there if there wasnt something for them, and they have a dark history of doing this.


In the 20 years this government has being in place, they had the opportunity an resources to make us financially independent, known they are crying, because the millions they have in private accounts in the exterior are being seized, money they must have invested here.

Is incredible that they can rob us, catch them, and there are still people defending the criminals.
 

SG854

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Mmm i'm all about peace, but maduro depleted all democratic and peaceful opportunities he had.

Is sad to see people are still seeing him as a president or that we "elected" him, wen he just stop listening to the parliament makes himself a new one, and then call to elections, the parties who weren't banned decided not to participate because this elections were called by an illegitimate parliament.
Some sees them as radical and fresh leaders, that work for the people, wen they're the richest people here, they use all the profit of the country for them self and to maintain power, while doing and protecting criminal activities.

People call this a cuop, Call Guaido "self-declared", Maduro stooped doing democracy a long time ago, and Guaido and the parliament are the last remaining bit of democracy we still have.
And every time people got to the street to protest against these thing, they were met with violence.

One thing is true, it is not US responsibility to solve our problems, but we appreciate the help, because we can not longer win alone, even coming from someone whom our ideologies clash, even when we mocked him even.

We know they have motives: Oil, the fear of communism, A potencial Strategical located ally, we know our exodus is something that creates discomfort, no matter what.

Some sees this motives as evil, but we need those things, and we profited from that as well.
Now or resources goes overseas and we get nothing, the private industries were we worked are now seized by the government are longer productive.




In the 20 years this government has being in place, they had the opportunity an resources to make us financially independent, known they are crying, because the millions they have in private accounts in the exterior are being seized, money they must have invested here.

Is incredible that they can rob us, catch them, and there are still people defending the criminals.
That’s what happens when government seized business. Time and time again it has been shown in various countries that central planning is a horrible idea. This goes way back even before Maduro came in. You essentially allowed the government to have monopoly over businesses and keep the money for themselves. Monopolies are bad.

The people know how to run their own businesses better then the government. We are talking hundreds and hundreds of businesses, street by street, week by week, products they have to keep track of and manage and how their prices goes up and down from supply and demand. Even smart humans with an economics degree cannot successfully pull this off.
 

kevin corms

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That’s what happens when government seized business. Time and time again it has been shown in various countries that central planning is a horrible idea. This goes way back even before Maduro came in. You essentially allowed the government to have monopoly over businesses and keep the money for themselves. Monopolies are bad.

The people know how to run their own businesses better then the government. We are talking hundreds and hundreds of businesses, street by street, week by week, products they have to keep track of and manage and how their prices goes up and down from supply and demand. Even smart humans with an economics degree cannot successfully pull this off.
While this is true, we cant ignore what the american government is doing. There is no clear good guy here. Before the sanctions you could say things werent ideal, but it wasnt the crisis it is now either.
 
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SG854

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While this is true, we cant ignore what the american government is doing. There is no clear good guy here. Before the sanctions you could say things werent ideal, but it wasnt the crisis it is now either.
There are videos online you can find of people in Venezuela on camera crying because their businesses was being seized by government.

They were begging the guy not to take it, but they took it by force. And that how they do it, that’s the only way to make people follow central planning is to do it by force. They are essentially taking over something you have worked hard for your entire life to built up. It’s like government taking over your home and says they are in charge now.
 

notimp

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Central planing cant deal with hyperinflation of 1.000.000% (thats percent) on certain goods necessary for daily life. The likes of which are currently happening in V.

The concept of taking peoples property we have in western democracies as well. f.e. when highways are built. Or pipelines. Or when a few generations after the founding fathers (Liberty!) the US had resettlement programs for the native population.

So in the end its videos of people crying again. And that we dont understand, why you have to take over a business by force - in a pre-revolutionary country.

(Not a deeply held conviction, just playing devils advocat. :) )
 
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notimp

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The coup is now in progress:

Video: https://www.democracynow.org/2019/4/30/with_us_support_venezuelan_opposition_launch

Here is one of the not at all PR Photos to entice the general public to rebel on the streets. :)
AjMiGGV.jpg


edit: Its from an AFP photographer. So hes not with the rebels/terrorists/legitimate rulers of the state (who knows.. ;) )
 
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Dissaor

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I just hope that pos Maduro gets killed or something, here in my country we are being invaded by venezuelans
 

WD_GASTER2

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this is another mess waiting to happen:

I really would rather we would not get involved. That being said
Maduro is garbage.
We should not get involved but Russia is flirting with proping up Maduro (here we go again)
RT can stop pretending to be neutral in this (thats hilarious) as their paymasters have a huge stake as to whats going on there.
 

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