Hacking UPDATING Outdated Games on 4.1.0

TheCyberQuake

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Jeez, this forum man.

Yesterday some of you were calling bullshit and attacking this dude. Y'all were telling him it wasn't possible and he was lying. Then he goes and posts a legitimate method and some of those same people almost immediately say this method is useless and even go on to try and prove that OP didn't come up with it in the first place.

The method might not be useful to you but that doesn't mean it's not useful to everyone and regardless of who discovered it first it works and it will allow some users to do something that they could not before, something that's been sought after for a while.

And you guys wonder why people are reluctant to share discoveries here, maybe it's because y'all get pissy when people say they might have found something (saying prove it or fuck off) then y'all get pissy again when they post it (saying it's useless).

I reckon Nintendo forgot the FW check in 5.0.x, inb4 5.1 in a few days to fix this issue. More stability incoming.
They didn't forget, they intentionally made it possible. How do I know? Because I thoroughly tested the concept last week after another user mentioned it may be possible. Though I don't believe OP intentionally copied anyone and probably thought they did find something new.
How do I know they intentionally made it possible? Because the systems will also share system update info if the game update requires a new firmware. They didn't do that unless it was intentionally designed to share between system versions. Currently the main one causing problems is Kirby as the day one update requires 5.0.0.
The unfortunate thing is some people have now accidentally updated their systems because the method used in OP was not given a thorough test like I did last week, and thus OP did know about the possibility of accidentally updating to warn others of the dangers.
 

Soluble

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Don't we already have a stickied thread for that?
Not for actual downloaded game updates. Just what physical games come with a system.update. I'm talking Kirby day 1 requires 5.0, Zelda 1.9.0 may require 4.1 etc(I don't know if that's an actual version but you get the point).
 

TheCyberQuake

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Not for actual downloaded game updates. Just what physical games come with a system.update. I'm talking Kirby day 1 requires 5.0, Zelda 1.9.0 may require 4.1 etc(I don't know if that's an actual version but you get the point).
I feel like we could just add on to the previous thread instead of making a whole new one.
 

HexZyle

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Jeez, this forum man.
Yesterday some of you were calling bullshit and attacking this dude. Y'all were telling him it wasn't possible and he was lying. Then he goes and posts a legitimate method and some of those same people almost immediately say this method is useless and even go on to try and prove that OP didn't come up with it in the first place.

The method might not be useful to you but that doesn't mean it's not useful to everyone and regardless of who discovered it first it works and it will allow some users to do something that they could not before, something that's been sought after for a while.

And you guys wonder why people are reluctant to share discoveries here, maybe it's because y'all get pissy when people say they might have found something (saying prove it or fuck off) then y'all get pissy again when they post it (saying it's useless).

I reckon Nintendo forgot the FW check in 5.0.x, inb4 5.1 in a few days to fix this issue. More stability incoming.

He had no track record, and posted a thread which basically equated to a "Reserved post"
He told the community that they could update their games without having the most recent firmware, a very much desired feature because the ability that gives to play online
He then did a bait and switch by saying "I don't want to release this because it might not be the right time". I don't know how much you track some of the offsite announcements of things that people are doing, but in the forum threads discusing them many people really do not like how developers tease things they have working and then never release them to the public.
He continually posted comments with zero substance, none of which addressed the concerns of the users, and talks as if he's using an IM application
He shilled his YouTube channel and tried to use it for "credibility". Two things people really do not like.

This method was already being discussed in a few other threads, and was a feature announced with the 4.0 update anyway (it's never been some big secret) and was discounted as risky as it only works to positive outcome in very few cases, and in other cases doesn't work, or updates the user's firmware.

Is it too much to ask that people on a tech forum test their methods, do their research, and ask around if something has been noticed, explored, or is viable at all before announcing to the public that they've found some great, amazing feature that no-one else has seen since?
 
Last edited by HexZyle,

BvanBart

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Dungeonseeker

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He had no track record, and posted a thread which basically equated to a "Reserved post"
He told the community that they could update their games without having the most recent firmware, a very much desired feature because the ability that gives to play online
He then did a bait and switch by saying "I don't want to release this because it might not be the right time". I don't know how much you track some of the offsite announcements of things that people are doing, but in the forum threads discusing them many people really do not like how developers tease things they have working and then never release them to the public.
He continually posted comments with zero substance, none of which addressed the concerns of the users, and talks as if he's using an IM application
He shilled his YouTube channel and tried to use it for "credibility". Two things people really do not like.

This method was already being discussed in a few other threads, and was a feature announced with the 4.0 update anyway (it's never been some big secret) and was discounted as risky as it only works to positive outcome in very few cases, and in other cases doesn't work, or updates the user's firmware.

Is it too much to ask that people on a tech forum test their methods, do their research, and ask around if something has been noticed, explored, or is viable at all before announcing to the public that they've found some great, amazing feature that no-one else has seen since?
He literally said he didn't want to release anything until he'd spoken to a known developer about his method and y'all crucified him for it.

You need to make you're minds up what exactly you want users to do, test stuff properly or release quickly cause you can't do both. (Not you specifically but just everyone in general)
 

HexZyle

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He literally said he didn't want to release anything until he'd spoken to a known developer about his method and y'all crucified him for it.

You need to make you're minds up what exactly you want users to do, test stuff properly or release quickly cause you can't do both. (Not you specifically but just everyone in general)

To "release" would imply he had developed something himself. ;)
He merely "discovered" something. i.e. he didn't create anything, merely knew something that he believed other people weren't aware of, and wasn't revealing it. (this was evident by his first thread)
There was no reason for delay - the only things that require discretion are internal security exploits since the people who can discover those are few, the use to the end user is nil, and the people who have exploited them is often 0.
He was crucified because his interaction with the community followed a predictable pattern many people who have dealt with trolls or newbie hackers have identified in the past as fraudulent, fake, or attention whoring.
 
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notimp

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Yesterday some of you were calling bullshit and attacking this dude. Y'all were telling him it wasn't possible and he was lying. Then he goes and posts a legitimate method and some of those same people almost immediately say this method is useless and even go on to try and prove that OP didn't come up with it in the first place.

The method might not be useful to you but that doesn't mean it's not useful to everyone and regardless of who discovered it first it works and it will allow some users to do something that they could not before, something that's been sought after for a while.
Personal attacks are out of the question, they dont help anyone - especially not those with a more complicated, non mainstream stance they still have to argue. :)

There are a few concepts though which are worth upholding.

- If you claim something very publicly - without laying out any details first (important for the non youtube audience to judge if "there might be something to it"), show proof. Not after people ask you to, do it out of your own valition - and do it first. Its an attention economy thing.

- If you are doing this to "promote" your youtube channel, and you are not the originator - and fail to mention that, and you don't go into important details, causing some people to loose their exploitable firmwares, in your attempt to "become famous" - you have lost. On all grounds. If you "independently discovered" a "built in feature" one of those accusations gets dropped.

- If you share information, let the information speak, don't try to prep things up with reputation plays ("i'm no fraud, I used moonlight to stream to my PS Vita (wohoo?!)") - also an information economy thing - and wishful thinking, but most intelligent people try to look for clues in language, if a thing is "real" or "made up". Dont try to "frame the response" (positive answers only, please), its actually counter productive, intelligent people will call you out on it, if its done "too obviously".

- Honor the original source. If you are a youtuber and like to live off copying the work of others, thats fine - but don't "forget" to credit them. Thats the difference between fair use and acting as an imposter.

If none of this is important to you - because you are the typical youtube consumer - and happy, that someone just told you something you didnt know, lets please still not loose this basic framework, because this is what makes "information communities" manageable.

Now to the specifics. There are small technical clues, to why this should not have been a sustainable thing to begin with. If it was "unintended" N would have always blocked it (/been able to block it). Game Updates have "minimum required firmware", so its use was always "limited", because over time required firmware versions will go up. There was always the question how this is "handled" by the "method", as the OP didn't care about that either (Turns out N sends a firmwareupdate, if minimum required version is not met). Limited use also meant, that the OP could only get the full potential out of it "now" which made the sensationalism suspect.

If your entire "reaction process" on this was to see the promise of a youtube video, and get excited - and now defend the person who made that video, because you got limited use out of it - thats ok, but also look at the remifications.

Information economies dont exist to serve the end user, in fact some of us/them (dont want to associate too closely.. ;) ) couldnt care less how they cope (deep wounds, early in our lifes.. ;) )

We care about the validity and the importance (judging process) of information. And there are a few mannerisms to keep that process alive... ;) Your biggest critic can be your best friend in our circles, and safespaces - by definition - are out. But also, never get personal (serves no purpose, allows the other person to "live", everyone makes mistakes), and try not to act like an utter asshole (I'm guilty of that as well, sometimes - but still).
 
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Dungeonseeker

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This is nothing NEW. This is just the way Nintendo intended the function... really learn to read.

Oh look! Nintendo copied your steps and even provided pictures: http://en-americas-support.nintendo.../how-to-update-software-data-via-a-local-user

No sorry... that is lame, I am not sarcastic. But really... nothing new here.
Except that guide specifically states both Switches must be on the latest firmware.
Personal attacks are out of the question, they dont help anyone - especially not those with a more complicated, non mainstream stance they still have to argue. :)

There are a few concepts though which are worth upholding.

- If you claim something very publicly - without laying out any details first (important for the non youtube audience to judge if "there might be something to it"), show proof. Not after people ask you to, do it out of your own valition - and do it first. Its an attention economy thing.

- If you are doing this to "promote" your youtube channel, and you are not the originator - and fail to mention that, and you don't go into important details, causing some people to loose their exploitable firmwares, in your attempt to "become famous" - you have lost. On all grounds. If you "independently discovered" a "built in feature" one of those accusations gets dropped.

- If you share information, let the information speak, don't try to prep things up with reputation plays ("i'm no fraud, I used moonlight to stream to my PS Vita (wohoo?!)") - also an information economy thing - and wishful thinking, but most intelligent people try to look for clues in language, if a thing is "real" or "made up". Dont try to "frame the response" (positive answers only, please), its actually counter productive, intelligent people will call you out on it, if its done "too obviously".

- Honor the original source. If you are a youtuber and like to live off copying the work of others, thats fine - but don't "forget" to credit them. Thats the difference between fair use and acting as an imposter.

If none of this is important to you - because you are the typical youtube consumer - and happy, that someone just told you something you didnt know, lets please still not loose this basic framework, because this is what makes "information communities" manageable.

Now to the specifics. There are small technical clues, to why this should not have been a sustainable thing to begin with. If it was "unintended" N would have always blocked it (/been able to block it). Game Updates have "minimum required firmware", so its use was always "limited", because over time required firmware versions will go up. There was always the question how this is "handled" by the "method", as the OP didn't care about that either (Turns out N sends a firmwareupdate, if minimum required version is not met). Limited use also meant, that the OP could only get the full potential out of it "now" which made the sensationalism suspect.

If your entire "reaction process" on this was to see the promise of a youtube video, and get excited - and now defend the person who made that video, because you got limited use out of it - thats ok, but also look at the remifications.

Information economies dont exist to serve the end user, in fact some of us/them (dont want to associate too closely.. ;) ) couldnt care less how they cope (deep wounds, early in our lifes.. ;) )

We care about the validity and the importance (judging process) of information. And there are a few mannerisms to keep that process alive... ;) Your biggest critic can be your best friend in our circles, and safespaces - by definition - are out. But also, never get personal (serves no purpose, allows the other person to "live", everyone makes mistakes), and try not to act like an utter asshole (I'm guilty of that as well, sometimes - but still).
I can't disagree with anything you posted tbh.

Maybe the better solution would be to not announce anything publicly and instead PM someone to validate your findings first then post only when you're happy to share.
 
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BvanBart

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Except that guide specifically states both Switches must be on the latest firmware.

Yeah and you know why? BECAUSE AN UPDATE NEEDS UPDATED FIRMWARE TO RUN BETTER AND USE THE NEWEST FUNCTIONS.
So updating without updating your Firmware is a bad idea to begin with. This is so confusing for people that do not understand what is going on.

Worst case scenario: people that update their games via this way will not be able to play them unless you update your Switch.

Example: I have a 3.0.2 Switch with launch Super Mario Oddyssey on there. It works. However if i install any update via this way, IT WILL NOT WORK ANYMORE.
 

Taffy

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Well then.

This escalated more than I thought it would.

It's just a guy who wanted to contribute in some way without reading up enough on the subject.

We've all had these moments at some point or another around the time when we first learned about forums and how they worked... so let's not argue about it.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Also...I think if the consoles are exchanging update data it shouldn't install any system updates that get exchanged. If they just download the system update and show "system update ready" or whatever, you can just go into the recovery menu and delete it.

I have no way to confirm anything but that last bit there
 
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Leonidas87

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I'm summing this up real quick.

Far too many greasy people.

My intentions were to help others and yous argue. Come on now.

As for people continuesly claiming they discovered this first I've heard you countless times obv you want some recognition.

I reached out to some developers, I even wanted to hold off, provided some pics and a video, saying I may release my same findings today. Mind you I was being attacked and still am.

Think what you'd want ok.

I am a father, a family man. I put aside time with my child to speak with yours on the forum. People are not respectful especially on GBA greedy pigs sorry but it's true.

I'm a victim of a hit and run. My car was totalled. My family sustained injuries. I'm recovering as we speak and you'd attack me.

I go out of my way to help yours for what.

Enough with the attacks. I wanted to wait on releasing the info and my findings. I did not bait and switch my method was not fake.

I did not lye.

How about a simple thank you.

Read through the comments more complaints then anything.

The moderators on GBA are crap step it up.

And if I keep being personally attacked I'm done I'll report you.

Some of the things you people have said is disgusting and if you had been in person saying those things you'd be locked up or knocked out.

I have no time to waste on this shit.

I have a car to replace, need to recover from my injuries and the accident and look out for my family.

People have no heart, would you poke fun at someone in a wheelchair, what if it was your parent. If you can't be respectful your nothing to me.

Seeing as I did not eat yesterday and slept barely 3 hours I got NO TIME FOR ANY OF THIS.
 
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BvanBart

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I'm summing this up real quick.

Far too many greasy people.

My intentions were to help others and yous argue. Come on now.

As for people continuesly claiming they discovered this first I've heard you countless times obv you want some recognition.

I reached out to some developers, I even wanted to hold off, provided some pics and a video, saying I may release my same findings today. Mind you I was being attacked and still am.

Think what you'd want ok.

I am a father, a family man. I put aside time with my child to speak with yours on the forum. People are not respectful especially on GBA greedy pigs sorry but it's true.

I'm a victim of a hit and run. My car was totalled. My family sustained injuries. I'm recovering as we speak and you'd attack me.

I go out of my way to help yours for what.

Enough with the attacks. I wanted to wait on releasing the info and my findings. I did not bait and switch my method was not fake.

I did not lye.

How about a simple thank you.

Read through the comments more complaints then anything.

The moderators on GBA are crap step it up.

And if I keep being personally attacked I'm done I'll report you.

Some of the things you people have said is disgusting and if you had been in person saying those things you'd be locked up or knocked out.

I have no time to waste on this shit.

I have a car to replace, need to recover from my injuries and the accident and look out for my family.

People have no heart, would you poke fun at someone in a wheelchair, what if it was your parent. If you can't be respectful your nothing to me.

Seeing as I did not eat yesterday and slept barely 3 hours I got NO TIME FOR ANY OF THIS.

Wow... this was NOT my intention at all... (if I have any blame in this). But do not take stuff personally what you read here.
A forum is a place were a lot of people just shout and try to get on other people...
 
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subcon959

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Maybe the better solution would be to not announce anything publicly and instead PM someone to validate your findings first then post only when you're happy to share.
Unless you wanted to promote yourself. In which case, you would probably do things like hide the fact that you were using 2 switches as long as possible, promise more info to those who "stay tuned" etc etc..

It could've easily been a simple little post saying "Hey, I was able to transfer a software update for NBA between a 5.0 switch and a 4.1 switch without it updating the 4.1 switch". Then others who had already done it could've chimed that it doesn't always work and be careful it could update your firmware in certain cases.

But no, he clearly chose to go for glory and now there are people with both their switches on 5.0 (their own fault but still sucks)
 

Leonidas87

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A forum is where people should share informatioin help others, not attack one another.

The nasty things out of people's mouths. If GBA does not step it up they can get in a lot of trouble.

GBATemp if your listening stop condoning harassment on your site. Do your job. Should never reach this point.
 
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Absintu

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A forum is where people should share informatioin help others, not attack one another.

The nasty things out of people's mouths. If GBA does not step it up they can get in a lot of trouble.

GBATemp if your listening stop condoning harassment on your site. Do your job. Should never reach this point.
GBA is not in trouble, lol.... Its a free world.. man, we all have our problems, if you have a family, that should mean you are not a child. If you are not a child, man up. Are you affected by harassment in this forum? You asked for it in your first post, so man up and stop whining
 
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Memfis

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Sorry, if my following question was answered, but my english is bad, so it's hard to read all the posts.

I have buyed Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Interesting: My Switch was not connected to the internet, but if I start the game the first time, it says that there is an update. WTF?!

So I connected my Switch to the internet, but if I want to update the game, it says that I have to update the system-firmware first.
I have no second Switch. Is there an other way to update games? Is it possible to manipulate a DNS Server which is blocking system-updates, but tells the Nintendo Servers, that the update request comes from a Switch with firmware 5.0.1?
 

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