US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[Lacius]

Well get back to me when he decides if it was his decision to do so or he was locked in to Trumps withdrawal. That's probably going to be dependent on how much carnage his incompetence caused.

It was Biden's decision to withdraw, and it was the right one.

 

[KingVamp]

Sorry, I missed the perfect solution and outcome that Trump was supposedly going to do. Something about bombing?

 

[ChronoTrig]

Your post consists of little more than personal attacks and what appears to be an argument to moderation fallacy, so I would agree our conversation is rather pointless.

If there's something you said that you don't feel like I adequately addresses, and you'd like to have a good-faith conversation about it, please repeat it and tag me in the post. While I sometimes miss things, I believe I responded appropriately to each of your points.

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1. I openly disagree with some of Biden's foreign policy votes (e.g. the Iraq War vote). I wouldn't call everyone who voted for that war a warmonger, however. Many were tricked by the Bush administration.
2. Biden was part of the administration that ended that war, however, and I agreed with it. The Republican alternatives apparently wanted to stay in the region indefinitely, so I don't regret my vote.
3. In case you have not noticed, Biden is ending our presence in Afghanistan, which I support.

Edit: The Democratic side is generally the less warmongering side, FYI.

I'll gladly just watch Jimbo run circles around you in conversations cause you seem to copy paste your responses to people. My time will be better spent doing other things in life than responding to the likes of you. You missed a lot of what I said and like I said before, you pick and choose what you read and just respond or just deflect. You can't reason with someone like that.

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And if a person supports a racist like Trump who voted for or supported every racist- based law, injunction, bill, what have you, that has been before him that is being a racist. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

And now, let the obligatory personal attacks and/or subsequent rants about ignoring me because it's harder to prove Trump isn't at least a closet racist than a paragon for the American people. At least Trump backed his sentiment toward the minority groups by running Republican this latest time.

Pretty sure Trump did a lot for the African American / blacks crowd. He even talked to Kanye West which people love.
People need to face it.. Trump won office, did his time and now he's out and people are still trying to bring him up as a talking subject when Biden, a democrat is in office and not doing anything about the current situation.... By the way, who gave you free stimulus moneys and who also said no more?
Trump gave you the stimulus moneys (he set them all up to take place) and Trump pushed for the vaccine. Biden took credit for the last Stimulus and also having put out the vaccine. And Biden said no more stimulus money even though our economy is still shit.

 

[Lacius]

I'll gladly just watch Jimbo run circles around you in conversations cause you seem to copy paste your responses to people. My time will be better spent doing other things in life than responding to the likes of you. You missed a lot of what I said and like I said before, you pick and choose what you read and just respond or just deflect. You can't reason with someone like that.

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Pretty sure Trump did a lot for the African American / blacks crowd. He even talked to Kanye West which people love.
People need to face it.. Trump won office, did his time and now he's out and people are still trying to bring him up as a talking subject when Biden, a democrat is in office and not doing anything about the current situation.... By the way, who gave you free stimulus moneys and who also said no more?
Trump gave you the stimulus moneys (he set them all up to take place) and Trump pushed for the vaccine. Biden took credit for the last Stimulus and also having put out the vaccine. And Biden said no more stimulus money even though our economy is still shit.

The stimulus checks under Trump were bipartisan. The stimulus checks under Biden were passed with virtually no Republican support and had to use budget reconciliation to bypass Republican obstruction in the Senate.

The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.

I'm heartened that you acknowledge Trump is out of office. A significant number of conservatives mistakenly think the election was stolen, and a lot of them even think he's still the secret president.

Whew, I sure am tired from having people run circles around me.

 

[KingVamp]

The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.

That reminds me of how the pandemic response team was apparently (partially?) disbanded.

 

[ChronoTrig]

The stimulus checks under Trump were bipartisan. The stimulus checks under Biden were passed with virtually no Republican support and had to use budget reconciliation to bypass Republican obstruction in the Senate.

The Trump administration had virtually no vaccine distribution plan, and his administration did nothing substantive to promote it. Hell, Trump himself got the vaccine in secret, and we didn't find out he had even gotten it until after he left office.

I'm heartened that you acknowledge Trump is out of office. A significant number of conservatives mistakenly think the election was stolen, and a lot of them even think he's still the secret president.

Whew, I sure am tired from having people run circles around me.

Trump signed for the checks and said yes and pumped them out; they were already in place with a schedule they had set. Biden can't take credit when they were already in place. Biden said no, no more to new stimulus checks (under his presidency). Get to the point without all the extra filler.
Trump pushed for the vaccines. Biden took credit for it being distributed because Trump wasn't in office when the vaccines weren't fully released. The public acts as if Trump had no part in trying to push for it / get it out there.

And like I said before, I understand you're far left and delusional, but as I said you should try to see both sides; I see both sides, not this sons of liberty nonsense.

If you want to see an insurrection that everyone claims the Jan 6 capitol riots were(which they weren't), then go look at Afghanistan now with what just happened. That's an insurrection.


Oh.. and Jimbo at least gets laughter and his point across instead of you as the super serious guy.

 

[anhminh]

50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."

 

[asddf]

It really hurts lacius that he cant spin this since Biden took full credit for this mess

Lacius: Trump is responsible for “x”
Me: Hey lacius here is Joe Biden taking responsibility “x”
Lacius: Trump waa Trump

que chistoso que tu eres de puerto rico y defiende a trump pero cuando paso maria el ni si quiera llevanto un dedo para ayudar

 

[Xzi]

50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."

20ish years ago: "if Bush invades Afghanistan/Iraq, they will end up being the new generation's Vietnam."

It's always so depressing when the common man can predict negative outcomes ahead of time, but capitalists insist on proceeding anyway because there's short-term profit to be had. Really doesn't give much hope for dealing with climate change quickly enough.

 

[subcon959]

So, is there anything worth reading in the last 10 pages since I was here or is it still just the blame game?

I bet not one of you is even trying to discuss the actual tragedy and what should be done going forward.

 

[linuxares]

50 years from now: "Technically, US didn't lose the Afghanistan war..."

No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.

 

[Xzi]

So, is there anything worth reading in the last 10 pages since I was here or is it still just the blame game?

I bet not one of you is even trying to discuss the actual tragedy and what should be done going forward.

The reasonable take is that the GWB administration is chiefly to blame here since we never should've been in Afghanistan to begin with. Not getting out sooner was a bipartisan failure, and the inability to stand up to the Taliban was an Afghani government/military failure.

I'm not sure what good ruminating on the tragedy will do at this point. American forces control the Kabul airport and we're rapidly evacuating as many of our Afghani allies as possible. The lessons going forward are obvious: imperialism doesn't work, long-term occupation of a foreign country doesn't work. We need to get out of all current conflicts ASAP, and not insert ourselves into any new ones. The US military's role in other countries should be strictly humanitarian, in missions that have a clearly defined timetable, and their budget should be cut significantly.

 

[zxr750j]

I feel really sad for the woman and girls not having the chance to be who they want to be under the Taliban rules. But this also extends to other thinking people: non believers, gay people etc... I feel sad for the people but I do think this is a domestic affair: this is not the responsibility of the USA or something the states can "fix" with soldiers or dimplomacy. More moderate religious countries have the same ridiculous laws against women and minorities. This is not only a problem in Afghanistan. Again: I do feel sad for a part of the Afghan people...

 

[Deleted User]

Jesus theres some outright gimps on this thing. Any mods that are reading this, why the fuck would you let a forum dedicated to gaming be overrun by the threads and posts of a few demented Trump fucks?? Over the past few years theres always been one or two on every forum everywhere pouring their poison and ruining the experience for everyone else. On this one its the same few trolls under different guises. They might not have anything better to live for then talking the most deluded wannabee crap ever hoping to turn a few more of the weakwilled and vulnerable to their cause but the rest of us want them to piss off back to having sex with their farmyard animals as a substitute for their relatives. Do what any professional forum would do and kick them off.

 

[Kaz050]

@ChronoTrig you ok buddy? Trump did say alot of stupid things, Trump pushed for Vaccines but yet has not come out to his base to taken them i wonder why? Dont compare Jan 6 to Afghanistan that is stupid, USA should never be put in to a place where we have to hold hands of a country if they dont want to fight sure let them take it thats not our problem and should never be. you need to lay off the Fox News oan and other right wing crap, all the idiots who stormed the capitol should be locked up for no less then 20 years and that works the same on the left if you want to rob and burn 20 years, and any idiot who undermines democracy should be locked up nothing was stolen no fake votes no dead people nothing but yet trump is still going on about it, he loves taking people money because why not say it was stolen when you already lost 60 court cases and not one of the court cases brought up fraud not 1 but you can go on fox oan and all of them and say other wise. the same reason why trump wont help rudy with his legal bills. as you stated you see both sides as so do i but i look very hard on both sides aswell and do my homework they both suck they both lie and they are not there to help the people who sent them there.

 

[subcon959]

The reasonable take is that the GWB administration is chiefly to blame here since we never should've been in Afghanistan to begin with. Not getting out sooner was a bipartisan failure, and the inability to stand up to the Taliban was an Afghani government/military failure.

I'm not sure what good ruminating on the tragedy will do at this point. American forces control the Kabul airport and we're rapidly evacuating as many of our Afghani allies as possible. The lessons going forward are obvious: imperialism doesn't work, long-term occupation of a foreign country doesn't work. We need to get out of all current conflicts ASAP, and not insert ourselves into any new ones. The US military's role in other countries should be strictly humanitarian, in missions that have a clearly defined timetable, and their budget should be cut significantly.

I'm glad you said the last part as I totally agree that humanitarian aid needs to continue to be the focus. I'm doubtful how anyone is going to stop the military industrial complex at this point though.

 

[Deleted member 194275]

No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.

USA have won in Corea, Vietnam, Somalia, the 2008 China Olympics and now they defeated the Taliban for good.

Source: Some Hollywood movies featuring Silvester Stallone

 

[anhminh]

No the US won the Afghan war. They just weren't able to change the country from it's stupid religious roots.

If anything I was taught is true, they weren't able to change shit in Vietnam war either. How can you claim winning anything when you wasn't able to archive any goal?

 

[Lacius]

Trump signed for the checks and said yes and pumped them out; they were already in place with a schedule they had set. Biden can't take credit when they were already in place. Biden said no, no more to new stimulus checks (under his presidency). Get to the point without all the extra filler.

It sounds like you need to read up on the American Rescue Plan Act of 2021. It had nothing to do with Trump or any Republicans.

Trump pushed for the vaccines. Biden took credit for it being distributed because Trump wasn't in office when the vaccines weren't fully released. The public acts as if Trump had no part in trying to push for it / get it out there.

While the vaccines were developed during the Trump administration, the Trump administration didn't have a vaccine distribution plan. Trump had virtually no part in "trying to push for" the vaccines. Bare minimum, Trump could have televised or at least released publicly that he had been vaccinated, but he instead did it in secret, and we didn't find out he had been vaccinated until after Biden took office.

If you want to see an insurrection that everyone claims the Jan 6 capitol riots were(which they weren't), then go look at Afghanistan now with what just happened. That's an insurrection.

On January 6, 2021, a mob of Trump supporters violently attacked the Capitol in an attempt to overturn an election, and they were instigated by Trump's lie about election fraud. By definition, this was a failed Insurrection. Pointing to a successful insurrection doesn't change these facts.

And like I said before, I understand you're far left and delusional, but as I said you should try to see both sides; I see both sides, not this sons of liberty nonsense.

Oh.. and Jimbo at least gets laughter and his point across instead of you as the super serious guy.

Ooo wee, I sure do wish I knew how to make posts without "extra filler" like you.

 

[Deleted User]

According to reporters that have covered Afghanistan from the start, the actual shock of how quickly the Taliban returned was down to failures in the US military to understand where they were and understand that at local levels negotiations between factions had been going on for ages. Its part of the culture in Afghanistan predating even the Soviets how local communities and regions get on. The US military never bothered to learn or engage with that, hence the shock as to how fast they took over. The fact they had been pumping in resources for 20 years helped the illusion that it would be indefinite hence the shock of people trying to grab on planes etc. They tried to impose a top down model of development the past 20 years that simply wouldn't stick. Too many administrations got bad advice, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden just like there are too many dumb inbred fucks on here with their hot takes based on nothing but shouting. Some are obviously doing it anticipating the Third Coming of Trump (the second will be when he can safely get his hands on his daughter with no witnesses) which is why this clickbait thread was started in the first place.