Who actually cares about graphics and framerates?

[Robert Newbie]

Have you seen Mario Strikers Battle League? Nintendo is no better these days.

The days when Nintendo used to put effort into it are a bit behind now.

That's a shame. What made Super Mario World and Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past so memorable was that they had about two games' worth of content. Super Mario 64 and Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time were excellent translations of the gameplay into 3D. The magic was still there. By the GameCube, it was already fading. The New Super Mario Bros series (in my opinion) is a bit of a personification of Nintendo's coasting mentality.

My mind was blown, when Breath of the Wild was announced as open world. I envisioned more freedom and terrain than Ocarina of Time. Unfortunately, people say dungeons aren't a thing anymore. One thing I do know is that there are a ton of puzzle/battle rooms. Tears of the Kingdom sounds like more of that. So, Nintendo likes to take one step forward and one step sideways.

Also, Link running around with an iPad?

Post automatically merged: Apr 5, 2024

Nintendo doesn't own Game Freak. They are partners together with Creatures in keeping the Pokémon brand. Think that you opened a restaurant chain with two other friends, and one of them doesn't keep the units they are responsible of to the same standards as you, and rise the bar by it being Japan where people have problems to express their opinions, rise the bar again because the people responsible were born in the 50s~70s, it will end up in 仕方がない until stuff gets to corruption uncovered level, its always like this.

Sorry for the double post, but thanks for the rundown. I kind of understood the whole Nintendo/Game Freak/Creatures thing. I'm still not clear on the "who owns what" portion of the whole deal, but at least that helps explain why a big Nintendo property is having so much trouble with quality control.

 

[AdenTheThird]

My mind was blown, when Breath of the Wild was announced as open world. I envisioned more freedom and terrain than Ocarina of Time. Unfortunately, people say dungeons aren't a thing anymore. One thing I do know is that there are a ton of puzzle/battle rooms. Tears of the Kingdom sounds like more of that. So, Nintendo likes to take one step forward and one step sideways.

Also, Link running around with an iPad?

Nintendo's strategy when dealing with new flagship games has always been unexpected innovation (one step forward and one step sideways is a good way of putting it).
That being said, BotW and TotK barely feel like traditional Zelda games. You can take on Ganon from the moment you take control of Link if you'd like, or you can do some exploring and ready yourself first. These games are open-world first, and Zelda second.

That being said, the games are quite enjoyable. They create an addicting desire to explore, and offer rich rewards for doing so. It may not be a Zelda game, but it is a largely enjoyable experience.

Dungeons still exist, but in different formats. There are four 'main' dungeons but those are quite easy and pale in comparison to the shrines, which are micro-dungeons scattered throughout the land. Each one only takes about five to ten minutes to solve, and each has a gimmick or focus, but there are over a hundred of them.

Overall both games are wildly different compared to what came before them but still enjoyable, as long as you don't hate open-world games.

Link's "iPad" is the Sheikah Slate, which provides maps, inventory, and interaction with objects, as well as where his abilities come from. Think of it as being a phone with a map app, a wildlife guide app, and an app that summons bombs and arrows. That sort of thing.

 

[Reploid]

Visual lovers cares about grapx
Gameplay lovers care about framerate. In action games at least.

 

[Marc_LFD]

30fps - Playable
60fps - Smooth and Highly Enjoyable



I don't claim to be someone who only plays games in 60fps, but it's obviously better than the serviceable 30fps.

 

[TheCryOfHatred]

I dont care about 120fps bs. Nor do i care to play at constant 60fps. Im OK with stable 30fps, and i laugh at kids who cant play anything at less than 60fps. I remember in the Playstation 1, we enjoyed games running at 15fps sometimes, some games with a lot of sttutering (Twisted Metal small brawl, Twisted Metal 4, Vigilante 8, etc to name a few) and nobody cared about FPS or graphics.

 

[spinal_cord]

For me a stable framerate is far better than a high unreliable framerate. It can be 15fps for all I care, as long as its a CONSTANT 15fps.

 

[AdenTheThird]

I dont care about 120fps bs. Nor do i care to play at constant 60fps. Im OK with stable 30fps, and i laugh at kids who cant play anything at less than 60fps. I remember in the Playstation 1, we enjoyed games running at 15fps sometimes, some games with a lot of sttutering (Twisted Metal small brawl, Twisted Metal 4, Vigilante 8, etc to name a few) and nobody cared about FPS or graphics.

This is valid, but once you've tasted wine it's hard to go back to water.
As an example, I first bought Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War on my Xbox One. It ran at a mostly consistent 30FPS and I didn't think anything of it. Most demanding games on Xbox One ran at about 30FPS.
When I got my Series X and got Cold War on that, it ran at a flawless 120 FPS and it was like seeing for the first time. Silky smooth graphics, way easier to play competitively, etc.
After about three months, I played Cold War on an Xbox One once again as I was at a friend's house. After about thirty minutes of playing, I had to take a break from playing because my eyes were so strained--I was so used to the higher framerate that it was physically difficult to my eyes to re-adjust back to 30FPS. Before then, I had no problem playing games as low as 20 FPS, but after playing with high framerates all the time, it became almost impossible for a time.
I do agree that being unable to play at framerates lower than 60FPS is kind of silly. These kids that grow up playing Fortnite at 240 FPS or whatever don't know what they missed.

 

[Marc_LFD]

This is valid, but once you've tasted wine it's hard to go back to water.
As an example, I first bought Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War on my Xbox One. It ran at a mostly consistent 30FPS and I didn't think anything of it. Most demanding games on Xbox One ran at about 30FPS.
When I got my Series X and got Cold War on that, it ran at a flawless 120 FPS and it was like seeing for the first time. Silky smooth graphics, way easier to play competitively, etc.
After about three months, I played Cold War on an Xbox One once again as I was at a friend's house. After about thirty minutes of playing, I had to take a break from playing because my eyes were so strained--I was so used to the higher framerate that it was physically difficult to my eyes to re-adjust back to 30FPS. Before then, I had no problem playing games as low as 20 FPS, but after playing with high framerates all the time, it became almost impossible for a time.
I do agree that being unable to play at framerates lower than 60FPS is kind of silly. These kids that grow up playing Fortnite at 240 FPS or whatever don't know what they missed.

Gamers in PAL regions got an inferior version before PS3/360 came around so for them they were used to it.

However, there were games somewhat optimized and PAL60 so some games offered the same experience as NTSC-U/J.

 

[Robert Newbie]

I dont care about 120fps bs. Nor do i care to play at constant 60fps. Im OK with stable 30fps, and i laugh at kids who cant play anything at less than 60fps. I remember in the Playstation 1, we enjoyed games running at 15fps sometimes, some games with a lot of sttutering (Twisted Metal small brawl, Twisted Metal 4, Vigilante 8, etc to name a few) and nobody cared about FPS or graphics.

I may be a bit of both sides. When I saw Kingdom Hearts at 60fps the first time on the PS3 collection, I had a "whoa" moment. It wears off fast, but you remember that first impression.

I can still play Ocarina of Time at 20fps like it's 1998, but the higher framerates afforded by later releases is mesmerizing. Basically, if low fps is my only option, so be it. If I can play the game at a nice, steady 60fps, I'll take that instead.

For me a stable framerate is far better than a high unreliable framerate. It can be 15fps for all I care, as long as its a CONSTANT 15fps.

Stable is definitely more preferable to stuttering and vsync tears.

Nintendo's strategy when dealing with new flagship games has always been unexpected innovation (one step forward and one step sideways is a good way of putting it).
That being said, BotW and TotK barely feel like traditional Zelda games. You can take on Ganon from the moment you take control of Link if you'd like, or you can do some exploring and ready yourself first. These games are open-world first, and Zelda second.

That being said, the games are quite enjoyable. They create an addicting desire to explore, and offer rich rewards for doing so. It may not be a Zelda game, but it is a largely enjoyable experience.

Dungeons still exist, but in different formats. There are four 'main' dungeons but those are quite easy and pale in comparison to the shrines, which are micro-dungeons scattered throughout the land. Each one only takes about five to ten minutes to solve, and each has a gimmick or focus, but there are over a hundred of them.

Overall both games are wildly different compared to what came before them but still enjoyable, as long as you don't hate open-world games.

Link's "iPad" is the Sheikah Slate, which provides maps, inventory, and interaction with objects, as well as where his abilities come from. Think of it as being a phone with a map app, a wildlife guide app, and an app that summons bombs and arrows. That sort of thing.

Thanks for the rundown. I think the "doesn't feel like Zelda" part is what really bothers me. Like, we've passed the creative stage, now we're at the manufactured stage. I want a challenging action/adventure game more than I want a vast, empty open world.

I think the first time I saw Link on the "Spinner" item (the floating top in Twilight Princess) is when I said, "this isn't Zelda anymore." Overall, TP is a decent Zelda entry, but it's only graphically a step forward.

 

[TheCryOfHatred]

This is valid, but once you've tasted wine it's hard to go back to water.
As an example, I first bought Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War on my Xbox One. It ran at a mostly consistent 30FPS and I didn't think anything of it. Most demanding games on Xbox One ran at about 30FPS.
When I got my Series X and got Cold War on that, it ran at a flawless 120 FPS and it was like seeing for the first time. Silky smooth graphics, way easier to play competitively, etc.
After about three months, I played Cold War on an Xbox One once again as I was at a friend's house. After about thirty minutes of playing, I had to take a break from playing because my eyes were so strained--I was so used to the higher framerate that it was physically difficult to my eyes to re-adjust back to 30FPS. Before then, I had no problem playing games as low as 20 FPS, but after playing with high framerates all the time, it became almost impossible for a time.
I do agree that being unable to play at framerates lower than 60FPS is kind of silly. These kids that grow up playing Fortnite at 240 FPS or whatever don't know what they missed.

Totally agreed with you. It happened the same with me, after seeing a game at 60fps its kind of hard to go back to 30fps, However its more of a obsession with FPS than anything else lol I remember there was a time i was watching all the time the FPS and be sure it was not going below a certain framerate, i was more focused on numbers than on the game itself, huge waste of time. Same with graphics...

And yeah those kids are just too spoiled today with current technology, they surely missed the golden age of games.

 

[AdenTheThird]

Totally agreed with you. It happened the same with me, after seeing a game at 60fps its kind of hard to go back to 30fps, However its more of a obsession with FPS than anything else lol I remember there was a time i was watching all the time the FPS and be sure it was not going below a certain framerate, i was more focused on numbers than on the game itself, huge waste of time. Same with graphics...

And yeah those kids are just too spoiled today with current technology, they surely missed the golden age of games.

Same here. First thing I did when I got my new PC, actually. I got mad whenever my game wasn't holding 144FPS consistently, and wasn't having much fun at all. Now, I don't care. I usually get above 60 FPS, but it doesn't matter too much. Game's gonna game. If it looks pretty, nice. If it runs smooth, also nice. I'll usually watch a guide or something to optimize a game's graphics/FPS once and never touch it again. Obsessing over getting the "perfect" FPS/graphics is a great way to be miserable.

 

[Wolfy]

I think highly of high framerate gaming, but I understand there's a "cinematic" to 30FPS that I see the enjoyment in. Graphics however get increasingly hard to spot while being exponentially more expensive to run especially if your hardware doesn't have the needed tech onboard(i.e. tensor cores, ray-tracing, etc...). I would say graphics can definitely make a game unforgettable done right, but it has to be done well through DOF, Ambient Occlusion, and especially fog. I feel like a lot of games don't always capture how beautiful fog can make a world and it's left to how many particles are you pushing, how high is the resolution of the textures, how high poly are the random NPCs that you'd never get close enough to see their pores.

 

[Robert Newbie]

Totally agreed with you. It happened the same with me, after seeing a game at 60fps its kind of hard to go back to 30fps, However its more of a obsession with FPS than anything else lol I remember there was a time i was watching all the time the FPS and be sure it was not going below a certain framerate, i was more focused on numbers than on the game itself, huge waste of time. Same with graphics...

And yeah those kids are just too spoiled today with current technology, they surely missed the golden age of games.

Yeah, I have a similar type of story: I was obsessed with my backlog, and I ended up playing a bunch of games I didn't enjoy at all. I was much younger then, but I let the hobby become a job.

Eventually, I went back to basics. If I know I'll enjoy a game, I play it. If I'm not enjoying it, I bail.

 

[TheCryOfHatred]

Yeah, I have a similar type of story: I was obsessed with my backlog, and I ended up playing a bunch of games I didn't enjoy at all. I was much younger then, but I let the hobby become a job.

Eventually, I went back to basics. If I know I'll enjoy a game, I play it. If I'm not enjoying it, I bail.

Hahaha something very similar happened to me. When i bought my new PC, i started "testing" games just to see how they worked on my new rig lol. Some time later i realized it was just a waste of time and went to play my fav games on RPCS3 and Switch, both emulated of course. Some time ago i realized how good the old games play on a CRT TV and then a new obsession arises... wasted money on TVs, a PS2 and a Raspberry PI, just to play on TV... next level crazyness just to leave them gathering dust in a corner because i prefer the HD look and ease of use of emulators on PC LOL

Same here. First thing I did when I got my new PC, actually. I got mad whenever my game wasn't holding 144FPS consistently, and wasn't having much fun at all. Now, I don't care. I usually get above 60 FPS, but it doesn't matter too much. Game's gonna game. If it looks pretty, nice. If it runs smooth, also nice. I'll usually watch a guide or something to optimize a game's graphics/FPS once and never touch it again. Obsessing over getting the "perfect" FPS/graphics is a great way to be miserable.

Exactly, i was getting mad when a game didnt got the framerate i wanted WTF. Seems i was not the only one.
I started playing Shin Megami Tensei V on Ryujinx at 30fps and enjoying it a lot. However, if it goes with a lot of stutter and lag that is UNPLAYABLE. It needs to be stable FPS otherwise is a PITA.

 

[Robert Newbie]

Hahaha something very similar happened to me. When i bought my new PC, i started "testing" games just to see how they worked on my new rig lol. Some time later i realized it was just a waste of time and went to play my fav games on RPCS3 and Switch, both emulated of course. Some time ago i realized how good the old games play on a CRT TV and then a new obsession arises... wasted money on TVs, a PS2 and a Raspberry PI, just to play on TV... next level crazyness just to leave them gathering dust in a corner because i prefer the HD look and ease of use of emulators on PC LOL

You know, I've almost gone down the CRT-TV rabbit hole myself. I didn't have the space for one so the issue resolved itself. Growing up in the pre-HD era gave me plenty of good times with that original setup anyway. These days, convenience (and saved money) count for a lot.

I wish I were less responsible.

 

[TheCryOfHatred]

You know, I've almost gone down the CRT-TV rabbit hole myself. I didn't have the space for one so the issue resolved itself. Growing up in the pre-HD era gave me plenty of good times with that original setup anyway. These days, convenience (and saved money) count for a lot.

I wish I were less responsible.

You saved yourself... its just a moment of nostalgia of wanting to go back to our childhood setup, but after that spell goes off, you realize its a waste of time, space, etc hahaha.
Like you said, convenience is the most important thing, the fact we can have pretty much any console on a PC with the best possible image quality that is HDMI is a blessing. Of course older games will look pixelated due to the HD resolution of the monitors, but you get used to it i guess? i mean "pixel art" is a thing today lol

 

[hippy dave]

Keep getting tempted to hook my NES clone console up to my old CRT just to play some Duck Hunt.

The old CRT has some tasteful fabric draped over it and is being used as a stand for our modern TV

 

[Faust03]

I only care when the framerate goes below 30 fps

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Of course. Gameplay > graphics, but graphics still matter.

I personally rate soundtrack above graphics in terms of importance though. A great soundtrack can make me play a game for much longer than I otherwise would. I would not have the patience to play a game like Super Meat Boy, for example, if it didn't have a banging soundtrack, which makes me want to keep playing even after dying 100 times, just so I can hear more of it. And I probably would not have the patience to play JRPGs either, just because they're so long.

Good graphics aren't essential though. Antichamber is a game with potato graphics and I still thoroughly enjoyed it. But I'm pretty confident it would've been an even better game if it had aesthetics that were half as good as the gameplay. Manifold Garden is a game that nails every aspect, from graphics, to soundtrack, to gameplay. The graphics are simple but yet beautiful. Manifold Garden would not be the same game if any of these aspects were not perfect. The graphics and sound design work together with the gameplay style so beautifully that the sum becomes greater than its parts. It would still be a great game if it had potato graphics, but nailing every aspect makes it a masterpiece.

A decent framerate absolutely is. Some early 3D games run at sub-20 FPS, and they are almost a slideshow. You do get used to it after a while, but it definitely detracts from the experience. Some areas of Banjo-Tooie run at ~15 FPS, I had to use a FPS cheat to increase the framerate because it was so bad. It's hard to go back and play some of these older titles because of low framerates. I'd say around 40 FPS (if it's a stable 40 FPS) is the point where I stop noticing choppiness and the game looks relatively smooth. I can still feel the choppiness, it doesn't feel the same as 60 FPS, but it feels like it's more my brain telling me that rather than my eyes, and it's very easy to get used to. I played a 2D game on an old laptop and it looked pretty smooth to my eyes, then I tried the same game on Wii U and it was so much smoother, it made the experience more enjoyable and I was annoyed I hadn't been playing it on Wii U from the very beginning.

There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to graphics fidelity, and we hit that point a long time ago, especially with realistic graphics. Graphics don't have to be advanced to look good, the style matters more. But if you are going for realistic graphics you don't really have much freedom when it comes to style, you don't really have any way to make your game stand out. The best you can do is make the graphics slightly better than other realistic games that came before it, and the graphics have been so good for a long time now that there isn't really much benefit to continuing to do so. I mean, Crysis is still a good looking game, and that game came out in 2007. Techniques have improved since and it does show its age in certain areas but overall it still looks pretty damn good. It doesn't look like a 17 year improvement in graphics, it looks more like the generational improvement from one console generation to the next.

Games are an art form, and you want your art to look good. Nobody will hang crappy art on their wall unless their kids drew it or something. Not caring about the graphics at all makes as little sense as not caring whether the music you listen to is any good. They are an important part of the overall experience, and they can affect how you perceive a game, how the game makes you feel emotionally.

 

[linuxares]

Artstyle > Graphics.

It all depends on how the game is made and how the artstyle works with it.