Homebrew Why are hackers so against piracy?

[Kazuma77]

O really??

Read that law carefully. You'll see it only applies to people acting as a corporate entity. Am I a corporate entity? No. Is it a for-profit use? No. Are files tangible? No. Can you prove that I would have bought it if some Russian site wasn't offering intangible files for download? No. There's no basis for a claim. I rest my case.

 

[Arkansaw]

some not all, gateway is too busy to respond

hacking has nothing to do with ethics, but hackers may choose to adopt a set of ethics they prefer

 

[WeedZ]

As you can see, I am from 2008. Around that time and beforehand, GBATemp used to be all about piracy. More or less. Flashcarts and ROMS/homebrews as far as the eye can see. Not sure when the trend started to change, but yeah. This place wasn't so high and mighty as it is now.

I feel like it's a religious type takeover. I'm just waiting for the crusade style stoning and burning at the stake. People get seriously pissed at the smallest mention of piracy.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

As you can see, I am from 2008. Around that time and beforehand, GBATemp used to be all about piracy. More or less. Flashcarts and ROMS/homebrews as far as the eye can see. Not sure when the trend started to change, but yeah. This place wasn't so high and mighty as it is now.

It's because Nintendo not-so-politely told them that if they didn't stop, they would crush GBAtemp and make it look like an accident, then sue the administrators into tomorrow. And so the current site rules were born, making it much more accessible for users who were interested in circumventing the restrictions set by consoles, but not wishing to delve into the depths of digital piracy

-Web History with TotalInsanity4

 

[WeedZ]

It's because Nintendo not-so-politely told them that if they didn't stop, they would crush GBAtemp and make it look like an accident, then sue the administrators into tomorrow. And so the current site rules were born, making it much more accessible for users who were interested in circumventing the restrictions set by consoles, but not wishing to delve into the depths of digital piracy

-Web History with TotalInsanity4

How long ago was this? Pre 3ds?

 

[the_randomizer]

So, as such, the rules should be rules people abide by and respect, you know, so no one gets their ass sued.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

Read that law carefully. You'll see it only applies to people acting as a corporate entity. Am I a corporate entity? No. Is it a for-profit use? No. Are files tangible? No. Can you prove that I would have bought it if some Russian site wasn't offering intangible files for download? No. There's no basis for a claim. I rest my case.

Actually, I encourage you to read it carefully. I copy-pasted this straight from national law; it says that it is legal to make exactly one copy of the copyrighted work, and only under a very specific set of rules

§ 108 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Reproduction by libraries and archives41

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this title and notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement of copyright for a library or archives, or any of its employees acting within the scope of their employment, to reproduce no more than one copy or phonorecord of a work, except as provided in subsections (b) and (c), or to distribute such copy or phonorecord, under the conditions specified by this section, if—
(1) the reproduction or distribution is made without any purpose of direct or indirect commercial advantage;
(2) the collections of the library or archives are (i) open to the public, or (ii) available not only to researchers affiliated with the library or archives or with the institution of which it is a part, but also to other persons doing research in a specialized field; and
(3) the reproduction or distribution of the work includes a notice of copyright that appears on the copy or phonorecord that is reproduced under the provisions of this section, or includes a legend stating that the work may be protected by copyright if no such notice can be found on the copy or phonorecord that is reproduced under the provisions of this section.
(b) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section apply to three copies or phonorecords of an unpublished work duplicated solely for purposes of preservation and security or for deposit for research use in another library or archives of the type described by clause (2) of subsection (a), if—
(1) the copy or phonorecord reproduced is currently in the collections of the library or archives; and
(2) any such copy or phonorecord that is reproduced in digital format is not otherwise distributed in that format and is not made available to the public in that format outside the premises of the library or archives.
(c) The right of reproduction under this section applies to three copies or phonorecords of a published work duplicated solely for the purpose of replacement of a copy or phonorecord that is damaged, deteriorating, lost, or stolen, or if the existing format in which the work is stored has become obsolete, if—
(1) the library or archives has, after a reasonable effort, determined that an unused replacement cannot be obtained at a fair price; and
(2) any such copy or phonorecord that is reproduced in digital format is not made available to the public in that format outside the premises of the library or archives in lawful possession of such copy.
For purposes of this subsection, a format shall be considered obsolete if the machine or device necessary to render perceptible a work stored in that format is no longer manufactured or is no longer reasonably available in the commercial marketplace.
(d) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section apply to a copy, made from the collection of a library or archives where the user makes his or her request or from that of another library or archives, of no more than one article or other contribution to a copyrighted collection or periodical issue, or to a copy or phonorecord of a small part of any other copyrighted work, if—
(1) the copy or phonorecord becomes the property of the user, and the library or archives has had no notice that the copy or phonorecord would be used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research; and
(2) the library or archives displays prominently, at the place where orders are accepted, and includes on its order form, a warning of copyright in accordance with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation.
(e) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section apply to the entire work, or to a substantial part of it, made from the collection of a library or archives where the user makes his or her request or from that of another library or archives, if the library or archives has first determined, on the basis of a reasonable investigation, that a copy or phonorecord of the copyrighted work cannot be obtained at a fair price, if—
(1) the copy or phonorecord becomes the property of the user, and the library or archives has had no notice that the copy or phonorecord would be used for any purpose other than private study, scholarship, or research; and
(2) the library or archives displays prominently, at the place where orders are accepted, and includes on its order form, a warning of copyright in accordance with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation.
(f) Nothing in this section—
(1) shall be construed to impose liability for copyright infringement upon a library or archives or its employees for the unsupervised use of reproducing equipment located on its premises: Provided, That such equipment displays a notice that the making of a copy may be subject to the copyright law;
(2) excuses a person who uses such reproducing equipment or who requests a copy or phonorecord under subsection (d) from liability for copyright infringement for any such act, or for any later use of such copy or phonorecord, if it exceeds fair use as provided by section 107;
(3) shall be construed to limit the reproduction and distribution by lending of a limited number of copies and excerpts by a library or archives of an audiovisual news program, subject to clauses (1), (2), and (3) of subsection (a); or
(4) in any way affects the right of fair use as provided by section 107, or any contractual obligations assumed at any time by the library or archives when it obtained a copy or phonorecord of a work in its collections.
(g) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section extend to the isolated and unrelated reproduction or distribution of a single copy or phonorecord of the same material on separate occasions, but do not extend to cases where the library or archives, or its employee—
(1) is aware or has substantial reason to believe that it is engaging in the related or concerted reproduction or distribution of multiple copies or phonorecords of the same material, whether made on one occasion or over a period of time, and whether intended for aggregate use by one or more individuals or for separate use by the individual members of a group; or
(2) engages in the systematic reproduction or distribution of single or multiple copies or phonorecords of material described in subsection (d): Provided, That nothing in this clause prevents a library or archives from participating in interlibrary arrangements that do not have, as their purpose or effect, that the library or archives receiving such copies or phonorecords for distribution does so in such aggregate quantities as to substitute for a subscription to or purchase of such work.
(h)(1) For purposes of this section, during the last 20 years of any term of copyright of a published work, a library or archives, including a nonprofit educational institution that functions as such, may reproduce, distribute, display, or perform in facsimile or digital form a copy or phonorecord of such work, or portions thereof, for purposes of preservation, scholarship, or research, if such library or archives has first determined, on the basis of a reasonable investigation, that none of the conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A), (B), and (C) of paragraph (2) apply.
(2) No reproduction, distribution, display, or performance is authorized under this subsection if—
(A) the work is subject to normal commercial exploitation;
(B) a copy or phonorecord of the work can be obtained at a reasonable price; or
(C) the copyright owner or its agent provides notice pursuant to regulations promulgated by the Register of Copyrights that either of the conditions set forth in subparagraphs (A) and (B) applies.
(3) The exemption provided in this subsection does not apply to any subsequent uses by users other than such library or archives.
(i) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section do not apply to a musical work, a pictorial, graphic or sculptural work, or a motion picture or other audiovisual work other than an audiovisual work dealing with news, except that no such limitation shall apply with respect to rights granted by subsections (b), (c), and (h), or with respect to pictorial or graphic works published as illustrations, diagrams, or similar adjuncts to works of which copies are reproduced or distributed in accordance with subsections (d) and (e).

 

[Arkansaw]

it is also not too different from the way established triads try to go legal.. if you can stay on the right side of the law, why risk it?

 

[TotalInsanity4]

How long ago was this? Pre 3ds?

Yes, I think it was sometime in the DS era

 

[WeedZ]

I don't think anyone is going to read all that, but anyone that has been around the scene since mid 2000's knows that you can legally only have one backup copy of any software where the usage lisence was purchased, and only for personal use.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

“Copies” are material objects, other than phonorecords, in which a work is fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from which the work can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. The term “copies” includes the material object, other than a phonorecord, in which the work is first fixed.

A work is “fixed” in a tangible medium of expression when its embodiment in a copy or phonorecord, by or under the authority of the author, is sufficiently permanent or stable to permit it to be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated for a period of more than transitory duration. A work consisting of sounds, images, or both, that are being transmitted, is “fixed” for purposes of this title if a fixation of the work is being made simultaneously with its transmission.

Section 101 "Definitions" defines "tangible media" as anything that can be communicated (such as, say, a torrent over the internet), so sorry, that definition is still failing all of you guys

 

[WeedZ]

Yes, I think it was sometime in the DS era

I do remember something about nintendo getting serious with flash cards during that time. So that would make sense.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I don't think anyone is going to read all that, but anyone that has been around the scene since mid 2000's knows that you can legally only have one backup copy of any software where the usage lisence was purchased, and only for personal use.

I know, I'm providing this so the people who are BSing "Buh fair use protects piracy" can see what federal law has to say

 

[Fishaman P]

Boo hoo quit your cryin'. Why are hackers against piracy? They have all sorts of reasons to be. Maybe because stealing is wrong? Or maybe they don't want to get sued? Look what happened with Geohot and Sony... If you want a backup loader sooo badly go develop an exploit yourself! Until then, quit whining about other people not doing what you can't. Maybe even show some appreciation for the growing homebrew scene on 3DS.

Look what happened with Geohot?
He got an internship with Apple, and in more recent times has been hired by Google to be a full-time hacker.
So I don't really agree with the "covering your ass" excuse.

 

[Kioku]

I feel like it's a religious type takeover. I'm just waiting for the crusade style stoning and burning at the stake. People get seriously pissed at the smallest mention of piracy.

Well, there's one temper on here who has in BIG BOLD GREEN letters "Piracy is Wrong".. So..

I've honestly never used the blocking feature up until about 8 months ago. He was one of em. I can't stand white knights. People forget what GBATemp used to be. Those who are new bother me even more.

 

[NEO117]

Oh God thank you... Thank you so much, these are pretty much my thoughts.

Listen... I don't know how new people are to "scenes," but ever since Commodore 64 they were always about piracy as well as homebrew and demos. That has not changed, no matter how much some people want to pretend otherwise. .

Don't get me wrong, some hackers have their own views and opinions on the subject and I very much respect that. It is their work and they are entitled to it. HOWEVER... What really grills me is that every time there is any kind of release they have to make it exceptionally obvious that they're not ok with piracy, even going as far as putting AP in the name, then they complain when people complain... Look, what that is doing is dangling a carrot in front of a hungry horse. If you don't want people complaining, just say that "you don't know" how to do it, or that you're afraid of ninty, or better yet, don't mention the Fucking thing at all!

If my comment bothers anyone, i'm sorry, but it's the truth. If it's too hard to take a bunch of anonymous people complaining, then either don't mention anything until it's done or keep it to yourself. It may come as a surprise, but no one here is a god, no matter how l33t they are.

 

[Thirty3Three]

They're not. They just don't want to be pegged for releasing something such as that under a non-anonymous way.

 

[WeedZ]

Oh God thank you... Thank you so much, these are pretty much my thoughts.

Listen... I don't know how new people are to "scenes," but ever since Commodore 64 they were always about piracy as well as homebrew and demos. That has not changed, no matter how much some people want to pretend otherwise. .

Don't get me wrong, some hackers have their own views and opinions on the subject and I very much respect that. It is their work and they are entitled to it. HOWEVER... What really grills me is that every time there is any kind of release they have to make it exceptionally obvious that they're not ok with piracy, even going as far as putting AP in the name, then they complain when people complain... Look, what that is doing is dangling a carrot in front of a hungry horse. If you don't want people complaining, just say that "you don't know" how to do it, or that you're afraid of ninty, or better yet, don't mention the Fucking thing at all!

If my comment bothers anyone, i'm sorry, but it's the truth. If it's too hard to take a bunch of anonymous people complaining, then either don't mention anything until it's done or keep it to yourself. It may come as a surprise, but no one here is a god, no matter how l33t they are.

Dude I totally agree. It's not anyone's personal preference that bothers me, it's the self righteousness that comes with it. To the point that they go out of their way to flame someone trying to get a reaction. I think this thread should have had a poll just to get idea of how many people are on each side of the fence, because I think AP is just a VERY loud few.

Edit: Jesus, this sounds so much like catholicism to me, it's scary.

 

[NEO117]

I don't believe that all of them are self righteous. I think a lot of them are just tired that for every app they release, a lot of people scream "backupz!". I understand what they want to do, but really... It's only doing the opposite.

 

[Neru]

People are different, some are pirates some are not. There's always gonna be both type of people. Deal with it because is been happening for many god damn years. So who cares whoever pirates or not, this happens all the time.