Why doesnt TV/PC screens have infrared capable pixels?

TotalInsanity4

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Well I thought it was a cool concept. And I


Yeah that was just one example. If I put it this way instead, If the TV's had that feature, Nintendo would not have needed to spend money and time on developing and manufacturing the IR bar. :)
What's easier and cheaper, shipping a console with eight IR LEDs inside a cheap plastic housing or asking for an inter-manufacturer standard for splitting every single pixel into a fourth part just to achieve basically the same result?

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Most TV remotes still use IR, so it's obviously not only beneficial for games, but I suspect this hasn't been attempted because of cost. It would probably improve accuracy of anything that use IR tracking (a handful of smart TV remotes, some game peripherals) by a lot, I suspect, having many more points or a much larger point of capture, depending on implementation.
TV remotes work in reverse of how a Wii remote does. A Wii remote includes an IR camera that tracks it's position relative to the LEDs in the sensor bar. TV remotes include one (or two) IR LEDs that are picked up by a camera in the TV
 

Uiaad

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Also keep in mind that almost all great ideas in history started off being attacked by sceptical people.
Now we know that earth is in orbit around the sun and not the other way around, now Quantum physics is accepted (it took a while)

Computers is an eveyday tool. Could you imagine..

There was always sceptical people not embracing new ideas. ;)

While some good ideas are scoffed at and mocked at first ... this my friend is not one of them

Short of a few edge, niche cases this offers nothing new to what we already have.
with this idea you are trying to reinvent the wheel and you really are doing it wrong

Bottom line is your idea although intriguing wont work because its not needed or wanted because we already have things that are better

What's easier and cheaper, shipping a console with eight IR LEDs inside a cheap plastic housing or asking for an inter-manufacturer standard for splitting every single pixel into a fourth part just to achieve basically the same result?

Exactly, when i had a wii years ago i actually built my own sensor bar in to my tv for less than the cost of a can of coke ( including my time in that )
 
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AkikoKumagara

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TV remotes work in reverse of how a Wii remote does. A Wii remote includes an IR camera that tracks it's position relative to the LEDs in the sensor bar. TV remotes include one (or two) IR LEDs that are picked up by a camera in the TV

Shit, you're right. Didn't think that one through too much. I struggle to think of any other practical purpose unless a peripheral were made with this tech in mind.
 
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DaniPoo

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Bluetooth. It's called Bluetooth.

There's no real practical application that having IR pixels would have that can't be done through far more convenient means.

Well I would say that IR is in some cases more interesting than radio waves since it's light
What's easier and cheaper, shipping a console with eight IR LEDs inside a cheap plastic housing or asking for an inter-manufacturer standard for splitting every single pixel into a fourth part just to achieve basically the same result?

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------


TV remotes work in reverse of how a Wii remote does. A Wii remote includes an IR camera that tracks it's position relative to the LEDs in the sensor bar. TV remotes include one (or two) IR LEDs that are picked up by a camera in the TV

Well, Do you have fun Captain obvious?
I think we all know how a remote and the IR bar works.

Im closing this thread since everyone just seems interested in trashing the idea I had instead of actually explore the posibilities.

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Or, nah, I keep it open, in case someone want's to continue... But I'm leaving it.
 

Cyan

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I would have imagine it better as IR receiver than transmitter. edit: I'm wrong. it would need a camera, LED (light emitters diode) can't receive.

sometime, having something in front of the "only" IR receiver of the TV and you have to wave your remote to get the TV receive your command.
having the TV screen act as receiver would fix that. or putting the receiver at the top ! why are they always in the bottom corner, where you can have things in front of it.

Bluetooth remotes are better (my internet tv box uses it). it always works. I guess it's more expansive? why still use IR remotes for TVs?
 
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Uiaad

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IR was used because we didn't have anything else, hell if you go back a little further, tv remotes were wired in to the tv. I'm not saying that IR doesn't have a use anymore because it has plenty of uses just not for TV's any more
 

invaderyoyo

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It could be a good idea if people are creative enough. Outside of gaming, maybe menus could be simplified? Smart TV's running android could really benefit. All the apps and stuff would be easier to navigate.
 

Ryccardo

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LCD is (crap that was aggressively pushed to cut manufacturing costs and) doesn't emit light, it subtracts from another light source (typically a white fluorescent lamp or LED)
They do not have IR emission (in the mass manufactured high brightness types, at least), so it would mean adding a second light source or replacing the single one with one which also outputs IR (at which cost, both monetary and in efficiency for the same visible emission?)

For any screen technology, you then have the problem of actually placing these pixels somewhere, which would be in direct competition with the size and/or density of the visible ones; and being added pixels, they need added processing power to draw them (not that manufacturers care, as can be proven by the ready availability of 5 inch 1080p phones that still don't last a day of web browsing)
 
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TotalInsanity4

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LCD is (crap that was aggressively pushed to cut manufacturing costs and) doesn't emit light, it subtracts from another light source (typically a white fluorescent lamp or LED)
They do not have IR emission (in the mass manufactured high brightness types, at least), so it would mean adding a second light source or replacing the single one with one which also outputs IR (at which cost, both monetary and in efficiency for the same visible emission?)

For any screen technology, you then have the problem of actually placing these pixels somewhere, which would be in direct competition with the size and/or density of the visible ones; and being added pixels, they need added processing power to draw them (not that manufacturers care, as can be proven by the ready availability of 5 inch 1080p phones that still don't last a day of web browsing)
Shhhhh, you're not allowed to have fun when you're giving technical reasoning, Captain Obvious
 

notimp

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Ah, the intelligence of the masses (= one guy that couldnt stand the stupidity of it and actually asked the cost question on 4 LEDs vs adding an entire spectrum channel to every individual pixel) came through again! Its always great to see that concept at work. ;)

For those that would want the question ton be answered in a definite way -
This is an OLED TV spectral distribution:
uhdtv_LG-OLED65W7V_spd.jpg


This is a QLED TV spectral distribution:
Spectral-profile-of-RGB-primaries-for-our-proposed-QLED-display.png


Infrared conventionally starts at 750+nm so is outside the spectrum, that conventional TVs are reproducing. Also - the clear financial incentive for manufacturers is to get the cones you see above as narrow and high as possible, because this means that their TV is more energy efficient. Which they then in return use to sell you "higher HDR capability". More energy efficient means, that they can pump out more brightness for the available temperature budget.

Which is another way of saying that OLED TVs suck at HDR - comparatively (look at the spectral graphs, or at spec sheets, I dont care.. ;) ).

Which is another way of saying, that the person that says that LCDs are "crappy" because they are not direct emissive (filter white light through LCD filters), doesnt know what he/she is talking about.

But they already have an internet fan. So thats nice.

Which is another way of saying, that people buy TVs based on the utter most bullshit explainations you can imagine.

Which is another way of saying - the only benefit OLEDs have over LCDs are "absolute blacks" (viewing angle is currently being addressed in LCD development) -- which coincidentally NEVER existed in the history of cinema/filmmaking as a desireable default - and also doesnt get "compensated" by industry standard gamma formulas, which are mostly calculated relative to the black level.

Which is another way of saying, that this very arguably isnt a benefit at all, but rather a detriment. But then I also own an OLED - so I can say that.

Which is another way of saying, that when Samsung decided against going into OLED production and going with LCD in their flagship products, they couldnt for the life of them imagine a market where OLED would be costeffective/desireable even in the premium segment. (But then art imitates life, and voila. ;) )

Which is when LG proved them wrong by adding a fourth subpixel (white) to an industry that uses colormetry based on three color channels - and thereby creating a "white mix" whichs spectral curves change the peak positionings based on light intensity - which is another way of saying - that those OLEDs drift non linearly like a MoFo (which is measurable (measure a 20.000 point Lut and you'll see it :) ) - which might or might not be important, because most/all of it happens well below dE 3, on a calibrated screen (But then dE 2000 as a formula for color accuracy is debatable as well. (Especially on wide color spaces.)), and that they fake most of their measurable HDR capability - because colors reproducible can not be very saturated AND bright, because they use much of the white subpixels output at that point, instead of that primary color alone.

This by the way is your logic steping to the conclusion that everyon championing (W)OLEDs, because of "superior" is an utter idiot. You can do it if you like absolute blacks. (Why? Because you like more black crush if there is light in the room? (Absolute black with relative gamma curves means, that near black stepping (colors) are darker as well, which means, that if there is light in the room (eyes adjust irises ("shutter")) you dont see them.)) You can do it if you are heavily into arguing for metamerism prevention through "a bit borader spectrum cones" (which about three or four people on the planet are doing). But apart from that - please know, that you are promoting Feng Shui - and nothing else. Its a trend. You are buying into a trend.

Which is another way of saying, that if your TV manufacturer gives you good local dimming (starting at 700USD for 55") on (VA panel) LCDs, which only some of them do, thats more than enough for all your black level concerns. Unless you look at recordings of starfields all day. Edge lit LCDs mostly suck and sucked - because of uniformity issues. But then - most manufacturers started to venture into local dimming LCDs again, as soon as OLED became "premium". So just buy those. Or double your cost and buy an OLED - if you must (or that one Sony LCD with much better motion handling).

Ah, but now we see the real issue. It becomes more difficult to find out what to buy then. So most people just utter "OLED" and "experts" found it hard to prove them wrong (in a definite sense) - so OLED it is... Its the, and now please everyone speak along with me, "intelligence of the masses".

Also - TV screens emitting Infrared light would have the the possible detriment of rendering other IR controlled devices in your livingroom useless. Potentially. Also it would increase cost and decrease temperature budgets for no identifiable reason. (You could use four 1 cent LEDs in the bezel instead. You know, like the Wii IR bar.)
 
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neotank19

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Well I would say that IR is in some cases more interesting than radio waves since it's light

Radio waves could also be called light


Also - TV screens emitting Infrared light would have the the possible detriment of rendering other IR controlled devices in your livingroom useless. Potentially. Also it would increase cost and decrease temperature budgets for no identifiable reason. (You could use four 1 cent LEDs in the bezel instead. You know, like the Wii IR bar.)

Yup.

To the original poster, I commend you for trying to think up new ways to do things. Even if they don't lead anywhere.
 

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