Anime aren't cartoons?

[machomuu]

Seriously, I hate it when people use that definition, because there's really no truth to it. They are still both cartoons; calling either one a "cartoon" doesn't mean it's somehow inferior.

I'm going to keep using that definition. And who said anything about it being inferior?

Because that's the obvious implication; that using the word "cartoon" is somehow demeaning, and must be avoided at all costs.

Saying, "They're not cartoons, they're anime!" just comes off as pretentious and elitist.

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

@riposte - Are you seriously trying to start shit or something?

Shinryaku! Ika Musume
Mitsudomoe
Strawberry Marshmallow
Pani Poni Dash!

None of 'em follow a story, they're purely comedic. Except the last two episodes of Strawberry marshmallow tie together.
Anime and "cartoons" can be purely comedic and not follow a story, or they can follow a story. There are lots of cartoons that have a story it follows instead of just being purely comedic/random.

Not sure since i haven't seen it, but would Avatar be a good example?

Avatar would be a great example. Great story, developed characters, amazing fight scenes, use of the word "die" and it's various forms, it's way more than a kids show, and it's really too good for Nick.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Whole lot of off-topic crap in this thread.
It needs to find it's way back to PM.

It does, but clearly stuff in the PM won't be kept in the PM.

QUOTE(Gahars @ Sep 11 2011, 10:45 AM) Seriously, I hate it when people use that definition, because there's really no truth to it. They are still both cartoons; calling either one a "cartoon" doesn't mean it's somehow inferior.

I'm going to keep using that definition. And who said anything about it being inferior?

Because that's the obvious implication; that using the word "cartoon" is somehow demeaning, and must be avoided at all costs.

Saying, "They're not cartoons, they're anime!" just comes off as pretentious and elitist.

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

@riposte - Are you seriously trying to start shit or something?

Shinryaku! Ika Musume
Mitsudomoe
Strawberry Marshmallow
Pani Poni Dash!

None of 'em follow a story, they're purely comedic. Except the last two episodes of Strawberry marshmallow tie together.
Anime and "cartoons" can be purely comedic and not follow a story, or they can follow a story. There are lots of cartoons that have a story it follows instead of just being purely comedic/random.

Shows that I've seen. I haven't seen those shows.

 

[Gahars]

Seriously, I hate it when people use that definition, because there's really no truth to it. They are still both cartoons; calling either one a "cartoon" doesn't mean it's somehow inferior.

I'm going to keep using that definition. And who said anything about it being inferior?

Because that's the obvious implication; that using the word "cartoon" is somehow demeaning, and must be avoided at all costs.

Saying, "They're not cartoons, they're anime!" just comes off as pretentious and elitist.

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

Hence the term implication; it's the message people send when they argue that eastern animation isn't in the same category as "cartoons".

And it seems like you're just stereotyping animation from two different regions based off of an incorrect assumption; not every piece of eastern animation is DBZ, Chobits, or Fullmetal Alchemist, and all American animation is not the Simpsons.

And going by style, that's like saying a novel written with sparse description and a novel written with purple prose are somehow not both novels, but belong in entirely different categorizations. Animation is the same way; different regions may animate with different styles, but in the end, they are both still animation, which makes them cartoons.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Now that I've had a month to think about this topic, I have to say that I've seen and understood the "differences" people have listed from the start. However, I don't think those "differences" are really enough to consider cartoons and anime separate entities.

It's merely a cultural thing. Not in cultural thing in the sense of American vs. Japanese, but a cultural thing in the sense that people who are really into anime are going to have a stronger feeling that there is some inherent difference between the two while those who couldn't care less see some form of animation and consider it a cartoon.

Poor analogy:

Boxing vs. Kickboxing
"So you're a boxer?"
"No, I'm a kickboxer..."
"So then you box and you're allowed to kick?"
"Boxing and kickboxing are two separate sports..."
"I understand that boxing and kickboxing operate under different sanctioning bodies...but you're both essentially striking and counter-striking, right?"
"But we can throw punches AND kicks. Boxers can only throw punches..."
"I heard you the first time... So you're saying that you box and that kicks are allowed in your boxing matches?"
"We don't have boxing matches...we have KICKboxing matches... They are different."
"I give up."

 

[machomuu]

Now that I've had a month to think about this topic, I have to say that I've seen and understood the "differences" people have listed from the start. However, I don't think those "differences" are really enough to consider cartoons and anime separate entities.

It's merely a cultural thing. Not in cultural thing in the sense of American vs. Japanese, but a cultural thing in the sense that people who are really into anime are going to have a stronger feeling that there is some inherent difference between the two while those who couldn't care less see some form of animation and consider it a cartoon.

Poor analogy:

Boxing vs. Kickboxing
"So you're a boxer?"
"No, I'm a kickboxer..."
"So then you box and you're allowed to kick?"
"Boxing and kickboxing are two separate sports..."
"I understand that boxing and kickboxing operate under different sanctioning bodies...but you're both essentially striking and counter-striking, right?"
"But we can throw punches AND kicks. Boxers can only throw punches..."
"I heard you the first time... So you're saying that you box and that kicks are allowed in your boxing matches?"
"We don't have boxing matches...we have KICKboxing matches... They are different."
"I give up."

Wow...that was just...right. I don't think I can say anymore, that was right.

 

[retKHAAAN]

And so it ends. Su-pa Yukai Kankyou Jikoku has reached it's epic conclusion!!!





I'm sure that is a terrible terrible terrible translation...

 

[FAST6191]

I do not think I can further the main topic right now (some things I would like to pull up but it would most likely be an echo of lilsypha's post). @ShadowSoldier defining a word based on your admittedly fairly narrow experience just seems like bad form and as reluctant as I am to try to analogise right now the "video games as murder simulators" thing should at least be able to draw some parallels.

I am curious about one thing- animation with regards to frames/movement to which I will say "Ken Burns effect" (if that is too weak then consider it over a tapestry or perhaps the reel to reel "animation" along similar lines).

Also
"Boxing vs. Kickboxing"
Rugby (to say nothing of union and league), Gaelic football, Aussie rules and American football?
jai alai and squash?
tennis and badminton?
formula 1 and motoGP?
skiing and snowboarding?
Or have I somehow furthered your argument?

But point being, those "hardcore" Anime fans who can't accept they are watching a cartoon need to get trolled by me, ASAP. I have had this argument with people before, and it always ends hilariously. Seriously, people, accept the fact you masturbate to CARTOONS already!

Between makeup, lighting, death lens, CGI, scripting and such I am not sure the difference is all that great.

 

[Nujui]

I thought this thread died like a month ago....

 

[retKHAAAN]

I thought this thread died like a month ago....

So did I

You can look back a couple pages to see who we have to thank for this

 

[machomuu]

I thought this thread died like a month ago....

So did I

You can look back a couple pages to see who we have to thank for this

I'll save him the trouble, it was me.

 

[Nujui]

Well, I guess I'll say from what I said last time, I think it really doesn't matter if people call anime cartoons.

EDIT: I already knew it was you.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

Seriously, I hate it when people use that definition, because there's really no truth to it. They are still both cartoons; calling either one a "cartoon" doesn't mean it's somehow inferior.

I'm going to keep using that definition. And who said anything about it being inferior?

Because that's the obvious implication; that using the word "cartoon" is somehow demeaning, and must be avoided at all costs.

Saying, "They're not cartoons, they're anime!" just comes off as pretentious and elitist.

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

Hence the term implication; it's the message people send when they argue that eastern animation isn't in the same category as "cartoons".

And it seems like you're just stereotyping animation from two different regions based off of an incorrect assumption; not every piece of eastern animation is DBZ, Chobits, or Fullmetal Alchemist, and all American animation is not the Simpsons.

And going by style, that's like saying a novel written with sparse description and a novel written with purple prose are somehow not both novels, but belong in entirely different categorizations. Animation is the same way; different regions may animate with different styles, but in the end, they are both still animation, which makes them cartoons.

Cool story bro, my opinion still stands.

 

[retKHAAAN]

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

I read that as "They are both types of cartoons. They only differ in the style of art."

...but wut evs. my opinion, also, still stands.

 

[machomuu]

Wow. Cartoon isn't demeaning at all. Umm, hello, ACME cartoons. Anything but bad. It's different art styles. Like I said, every Anime I've watched, has one big story. Fullmetal Alchemist, Dragonball Z (I find it has a better continuous story than Dragonball), Chobits just to name a few. And I compare them to what I see on TV, The Simpsons and all the other shows I listed don't have a continuous story. They make references sure, but it's not part of a story.

I read that as "They are both types of cartoons. They only differ in the style of art."

...but wut evs. my opinion, also, still stands.

Actually, disregarding anime = cartoon and anime =/= cartoon, anime and cartoon are two differing artstyles. Cartoons such as Avatar and Code Lyoko use anime styles. Similarly, anime like Pokemon and Crayon Shin-Chan use cartoony styles.

 

[retKHAAAN]

so if...

cartoony = exaggerated

then can we assume...

99% of "anime" are cartoony be it in storylines, physical characteristics, technology, magical powers, etc?


...it feels weird describing cartoons as "cartoony"...

 

[Nujui]

To me I know the difference, I just don't mind people calling them cartoon.

 

[machomuu]

Also, now that I think about it, I don't know how one can really assert what an anime is in comparison to cartoons due to the fact that there is no set definition for "anime" in the dictionary. I expect one to be in there not long from now, though, do to how much anime is integrating with the West, but for not I don't think one can factually do that.

 

[KingVamp]

Actually, disregarding anime = cartoon and anime =/= cartoon, anime and cartoon are two differing artstyles. Cartoons such as Avatar and Code Lyoko use anime styles. Similarly, anime like Pokemon and Crayon Shin-Chan use cartoony styles.

Why did you put that in my head? Now I have to go back to it by starting over and do catch up.

 

[machomuu]

so if...

cartoony = exaggerated

then can we assume...

99% of "anime" are cartoony be it in storylines, physical characteristics, technology, magical powers, etc?


...it feels weird describing cartoons as "cartoony"...

No, I was speaking art style-wise.

And both anime and cartoon styles are exaggerated.

 

[mthrnite]