Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[appleburger]

I love that people are still referencing the trolley dilemma and still considering themselves as "oh, so deep." What extraneous circumstances led you into the the convoluted situation of playing god in the first place? Maybe you are already morally complicit in allowing the situation to happen. Maybe you should stay indoors and watch more sitcoms instead. Wouldn't want to stumble into a trolley dilemma--or wait, it does appear you do.

Nobody said they considered themselves deep - we were getting to the bottom of our disagreement. That's the entire point of the dilemma. Not sure why your dumb ass thinks it's a tool to look smart, mr. "I find words interesting".

Again, fuck off with your holier-than though attitude. You're an asshole and we don't want to play with you anymore.

 

[tabzer]

Right back at you, corndog. Let us know when you find the bottom.

 

[appleburger]

Right back at you, corndog. Let us know when you find the bottom.

Yeah, if you haven't noticed I'm in here having conversations and you've only served to come in and throw insults without directly addressing anything. You know, the whole purpose of a forum.

The whole reason I brought up the trolley dilemma is because it's something we all go over in middle school, so it's a pretty simple and easy way to see where somebody stands on their values. And you're over here like "er meh gerd, people think that's deep", like what? Why on earth do you think anyone finds that a "sooper deep" topic? lmao. Meanwhile you literally tried to sound smart with your "I find werds interesting" comment. That's gold, dude.

Same goes to you regarding your "finding the bottom" comment. I'm having fun at this point. But you're clearly also invested - look at your comment history. Don't act like I'm the only one participating in this circus act.

It's like you handed me a claymore and then started swinging at me with a butter knife. Too easy, my friend...

 

[MadonnaProject]

I think that's a bit black & white thinking. "Force" vs. "no force" is a gross oversimplification.

Mandates are not a new concept. I feel like your comments are beginning to lean towards anarchy, which I can't see benefiting us very well. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Mandates are useful in a society, and I think there's plenty of evidence to support that. If the collective feels a mandate will protect the majority, then I think it's wise to lend some credence to that mandate.

The idea of never "forcing" anyone to do anything sounds like an anarchist, utopian concept to me. And I feel like a pandemic is about appropriate of a time as ever to have a mandate if it means keeping more of us alive.

I understand the whole "foot in the door" concept with mandates, but I personally think the Patriot Act was far more of a breach in that realm than a vaccine mandate, given that the vaccine mandate would actually save lives.

No.

 

[MadonnaProject]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...dy-suggests-but-boosters-help?t=1639781856196

The oxford vaccine is not used as a booster in the UK, only moderna and pfizer are being used. Which is kinda embarrassing for the government, so I believe they are doing it based on science.

You read this particular paper right? It echoes what I said.

 

[MadonnaProject]

You're confused. You assume that because it doesn't seem obvious to you, that it couldn't be true.
I heard a good scientific explanation of it the other day and it made sense to me.

They know, you don't know.

"They" being your cousins? friends? "The scientists"? Harkening to some abstract authority to prove one's point is cluthing at straws.

 

[MadonnaProject]

https://www.who.int/news-room/event...vading-immunity-and-what-are-the-implications

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/15/world/covid-omicron-vaccines

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...-vaccine-too-study-suggests-but-boosters-help

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...ose-vaccine-protects-omicron-variant-rcna7970


The examples you provided are, of course, immoral. However, just because these things are bad doesn't mean other unrelated things are also bad.

If you want to go out in public, you generally have to wear clothes. If you want to have children, you generally can't be negligent (particularly when it comes to the health and safety of the child). If you want to ride a plane, go to a restaurant, etc., you should have to be vaccinated.

Slavery and forced copulation, to use your odd examples, are immoral because they're violations of one's right to autonomy. However, a vaccine mandate is no more a violation of one's right to autonomy than a clothes mandate. You have a right to be unvaccinated, but that doesn't mean you should have the right to be unvaccinated in a public space. I have a right to be naked, but it doesn't mean I have a right to be naked in a public space.

This isn't rocket science.

Someone googled research quickly. BTW all the above links say what I said. Current vaccine boosters might help.

This is why indulging ignorant people is such a waste of time. I actually read the links you provided and it didn't move your argument in any way at all.

Furthermore you're so deluded in your own self righteousness and correctness you are utterly against the notion someone else might be right, if not, at least be allowed to their opinion.

The accepting benevolent left eh?

As I said, this is exactly, to the blueprint of how the nazi movement got going.

 

[MadonnaProject]

Honestly, rights don't really exist, imo. They're all privileges, and the US is no stranger to taking those away. Patriot Act, slavery and imprisoning Japanese americans all come to mind. You can be drafted into a war where you're far more likely to be killed than you would by any medicine, as well. These took/take place regardless of the rights people were said to have.

It's just American marketing, in my eyes. But regardless of those semantics, vaccine mandates already exist for schools. That's all small potatoes in the "rights" or "privilege" department. And opting to not save lives in the vain of "freedom" is an easy target for calling people irresponsible, in my book. It's only a matter of discussion due to how dangerous it is.

I think the freedom/rights/privilege angle is just a bunch of hot air when it comes to this argument. People are free to feel it's not fair - but having a right? Yeah, that doesn't mean much in this context. There are a lot of people dying, and the collective best minds we have agree that vaccinating will save many lives. Due to there being enough stupid people to hinder this, I don't blame folks for arguing for a mandate that will save lives. I don't think it will be a foot in the door for total authoritarianism like some people seem to be fantasizing about.

ABSOLUTELY. These people think they're entitled to rights by birth. Well, if the government doesn't deem those freedoms to be a right then who will you go and complain to? God? Come on.

Just an utter delusion of how the world works.

You are so correct. Amerian markering, american delusion, american ignorance, american mediocrity.

As I said before, I have traveled most of the globe, extensively. Its been a blessing and a harsh eye opener. Nowhere would you hear the unoppressed complain about being oppressed as much as america and west. Nowhere would you see the most morally corrupt and criminal, as in the USA and now europe (mostly influenced by "black culture" the corruption of which is widely accepted if not promoted by the left - simply for one reason, votes).

These people simply do not understand the shockingly harsh reality we live in, but it would be a huge task asking them to see reality when they can't see beyond their own noses.

Freedoms. Right to pursuit of happiness. Hahahahahaha what bullshit.

 

[tabzer]

Yeah, if you haven't noticed I'm in here having conversations and you've only served to come in and throw insults without directly addressing anything. You know, the whole purpose of a forum.

The whole reason I brought up the trolley dilemma is because it's something we all go over in middle school, so it's a pretty simple and easy way to see where somebody stands on their values. And you're over here like "er meh gerd, people think that's deep", like what? Why on earth do you think anyone finds that a "sooper deep" topic? lmao. Meanwhile you literally tried to sound smart with your "I find werds interesting" comment. That's gold, dude.

Same goes to you regarding your "finding the bottom" comment. I'm having fun at this point. But you're clearly also invested - look at your comment history. Don't act like I'm the only one participating in this circus act.

It's like you handed me a claymore and then started swinging at me with a butter knife. Too easy, my friend...

You say insults, I say critique--which wasn't without compliment, btw. Your short essay and awkward analogy underpin that idiocy I've attempted to point out.

 

[stanna]

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=61ba373c666e7e21ac4ceadd


Try telling sergio agüero the vaccine is safe, he can't play football anymore it's fucked his heart up.

 

[smf]

Try telling sergio agüero the vaccine is safe, he can't play football anymore it's fucked his heart up.

Nothing is 100% safe, you can't live your life in fear about rare accidents.

More people die crossing the road every year than have died from vaccination, yet anti vaxxers still cross the road.
More people die from covid in a year because they haven't been vaccinated, than have died from vaccination.

So I find the argument rather disingenuous.

 

[smf]

Someone googled research quickly. BTW all the above links say what I said. Current vaccine boosters might help.

No, the research is that current vaccine boosters do help.

You argued that they hoped that they hoped boosters helped but nobody knew, which is incorrect.

 

[smf]

"They" being your cousins? friends? "The scientists"? Harkening to some abstract authority to prove one's point is cluthing at straws.

"They" being the people you mentioned.

"Not the labs, not the specialists not the experts. They are just saying get the third jab in hopes to "boost" your immune system a notch so that it MIGHT be effective."

You appear to have forgotten that you also used the word "they". Your triggered outburst was quite funny though.

You read this particular paper right? It echoes what I said.

No, it's the opposite of what you said. Either you don't want to admit you're wrong, or you can't understand what words mean and so can't see that you're wrong. I'm not interested in helping someone rude figure out which it is, if you were more polite then I would.

 

[subcon959]

Nothing is 100% safe, you can't live your life in fear about rare accidents.

More people die crossing the road every year than have died from vaccination, yet anti vaxxers still cross the road.
More people die from covid in a year because they haven't been vaccinated, than have died from vaccination.

So I find the argument rather disingenuous.

Actually, it's a great argument in the face of mandates. That should be rather obvious.

 

[smf]

Actually, it's a great argument in the face of mandates. That should be rather obvious.

Not really.

Children can die at school, but are mandated to be there because the risk of them dying is small compared to the risk of large numbers of uneducated children. You can't avoid being fined for not sending your child to school, by pointing out a death of a child in another country.

Saying something is a great argument or obvious, doesn't make it a great argument or obvious. It just means you agree with it, but that has no value as the majority of people in austria support mandatory vaccines.

If you have an argument why they are wrong then feel free to put it forward.

It's not even a new thing to have mandatory vaccines. https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/united-kingdom-vaccination-act-1853

It's a desperate measure, much like drafting men into the armed services. The reason why there will never be another draft is not because of the moral implications but because we are unlikely to ever have an armed conflict that requires large numbers of infantry. It ended because it was no longer deemed necessary, it would definitely happen again if the circumstances required it.

Nobody ever thought our freedom would be curtailed with a lockdown, until it was necessary.

 

[MadonnaProject]

"They" being the people you mentioned.

"Not the labs, not the specialists not the experts. They are just saying get the third jab in hopes to "boost" your immune system a notch so that it MIGHT be effective."

You appear to have forgotten that you also used the word "they". Your triggered outburst was quite funny though.



No, it's the opposite of what you said. Either you don't want to admit you're wrong, or you can't understand what words mean and so can't see that you're wrong. I'm not interested in helping someone rude figure out which it is, if you were more polite then I would.

Do you even know how research works? How on earth could they demonstrably, statistically, categorically conclude the current vaccines help against the new variant when the new variant has been out a few weeks to month.

Go ahead, educate me, I dare you. Answer this question - if the current vaccines were effective, then why would people who already have two loads of antibodies in their system need yet another jab "top up" to counter the new variant? Would the original premise not be that top ups are needed as the orignal two jabs are NOT EFFECTIVE? So something is not effective, and you keep on overdosing on it expecting it to be effective. Do you know what the definitition of madness is?

Right? Wrong? I thought this wasn't about winning. As for calling me names, psychoanalysing me, notice I haven't made it personal and done the same to you?

Its called coming from a higher ground and a place of maturity.

Yeah I don't understand what words mean. Bleaargh waaehgh nadfhe geeeaaahhh.

*massive eyeroll*

 

[MadonnaProject]

Yeah, if you haven't noticed I'm in here having conversations and you've only served to come in and throw insults without directly addressing anything. You know, the whole purpose of a forum.

The whole reason I brought up the trolley dilemma is because it's something we all go over in middle school, so it's a pretty simple and easy way to see where somebody stands on their values. And you're over here like "er meh gerd, people think that's deep", like what? Why on earth do you think anyone finds that a "sooper deep" topic? lmao. Meanwhile you literally tried to sound smart with your "I find werds interesting" comment. That's gold, dude.

Same goes to you regarding your "finding the bottom" comment. I'm having fun at this point. But you're clearly also invested - look at your comment history. Don't act like I'm the only one participating in this circus act.

It's like you handed me a claymore and then started swinging at me with a butter knife. Too easy, my friend...

Hahahahahah. Done with class. I think you're fighting a pointless battle here though. Ask yourself, do you really want to argue with someone from china, or moreso someone using a VPN pretending to be from china?

 

[smf]

Do you even know how research works? How on earth could they demonstrably, statistically, categorically conclude the current vaccines help against the new variant when the new variant has been out a few weeks to month.

Go ahead, educate me, I dare you. Answer this question - if the current vaccines were effective, then why would people who already have two loads of antibodies in their system need yet another jab "top up" to counter the new variant?

It appears you don't know how research works

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59639973

I'm not interested in educating someone so rude & arrogant, you'd be a nightmare student. That took two minutes to google, if you don't believe it then go through medical school, attain the same level of qualifications as the people quoted & perform the same studies that they did. Then contribute to the research, rather than asking stupid questions on a gaming forum.

 

[subcon959]

Not really.

Children can die at school, but are mandated to be there because the risk of them dying is small compared to the risk of large numbers of uneducated children. You can't avoid being fined for not sending your child to school, by pointing out a death of a child in another country.

Saying something is a great argument or obvious, doesn't make it a great argument or obvious. It just means you agree with it, but that has no value as the majority of people in austria support mandatory vaccines.

If you have an argument why they are wrong then feel free to put it forward.

I said Sergio Aguero was a great argument, but if you're going to dismiss that then there's really no point. I also think your crossing the road analogy was disingenuous since it's not mandatory and there are no invisible cars so I guess we're at a stalemate.

 

[smf]

I said Sergio Aguero was a great argument, but if you're going to dismiss that then there's really no point. I also think your crossing the road analogy was disingenuous since it's not mandatory and there are no invisible cars so I guess we're at a stalemate.

Why does it being mandatory make a difference? The people who have refused to be vaccinated have done so while it was not mandatory. My point is that have a poor ability to assess risk, not whether taking the risk is mandatory or not.

Your invisible car argument is irrelevant, the evidence is that pedestrians get hit by cars. I'm sure that the majority are not done on purpose therefore in most cases neither saw each other despite neither of them being invisible.

I know you are saying Sergio Aguero was a great argument, I'm saying that it's not a great argument & gave the analogy of it being mandatory for children to go to school despite the risk of dying on the way to school or at school (which you then ignored) & pointed out that vaccination has less risk than contracting covid without being vaccinated (which you also ignored).

You haven't given any new argument about why Sergio Aguero is a better argument, so we aren't at stalemate. You have merely refused to offer anything to back up your statement & instead just blindly restated your position.

If you could give a reason why you think Sergio Aguero is a great argument, then please go ahead.