Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[AlexMCS]

the name of the phenomena

Law of Large Numbers

 

[appleburger]

Sometimes I wonder, like when people love to hear themselves talk, they like to see the long ass posts they typed and revel in their supposed righteousness? Like, it's okay to debate, but damn, some of these posts are filled with BS or just people who refuse to either face facts or the other side's views?

Got bad news for you - I think you're gonna run into BS and people not being willing to challenge their own view until the day you die. There is at least some decent discourse in here, now. Had to sort through a few idiots to finally get there, but then again we ARE on GBAtemp discussing COVID for some reason. The expectations are low to begin with.

 

[tabzer]

Got bad news for you - I think you're gonna run into BS and people not being willing to challenge their own view until the day you die. There is at least some decent discourse in here, now. Had to sort through a few idiots to finally get there, but then again we ARE on GBAtemp discussing COVID for some reason. The expectations are low to begin with.

TBF you are part idiotic and part reasonable.

 

[appleburger]

TBF you are part idiotic and part reasonable.

Eh, go fuck yourself. Idiotic and reasonable aren't even on the same spectrum, jackass.

I might be wrong sometimes, but that's why I participate in conversation, to better understand things from others. It's part of the process.

You, on the otherhand, are just being an asshole.

 

[tabzer]

Eh, go fuck yourself. Idiotic and reasonable aren't even on the same spectrum, jackass.

I might be wrong sometimes, but that's why I participate in conversation, to better understand things from others. It's part of the process.

You, on the otherhand, are just being an asshole.

Idiotic and reasonable is the spectrum, and the full range is succinctly demonstrated by your own admission.

we ARE on GBAtemp discussing COVID for some reason

Don't get too offended.

 

[appleburger]

Idiotic and reasonable is the spectrum, and the full range is succinctly demonstrated by your own admission.

Don't get too offended.

Uh, no it's not, and that's not how an admission works. You can call me an asshole if you want, that's fine. I'll take that. But if you want to pull the word idiot out without actually refuting anything, then you're the one standing there with your thumb up your ass looking like a jackass, not me.

And of course I'm going to tell you to go fuck yourself. That's a consequence of you being an asshole. Fuck you. You can act like that's me being neurotic all you want. Somebody calls me stupid without anything to back it up, I tell them to go fuck themselves. Simple.

 

[tabzer]

Uh, no it's not, and that's not how an admission works. You can call me an asshole if you want, that's fine. I'll take that. But if you want to pull the word idiot out without actually refuting anything, then you're the one standing there with your thumb up your ass looking like a jackass, not me.

And of course I'm going to tell you to go fuck yourself. That's a consequence of you being an asshole. Fuck you. You can act like that's me being neurotic all you want. Somebody calls me stupid without anything to back it up, I tell them to go fuck themselves. Simple.

Oh. So you don't agree.

Please tell me. How does one refute the action of idiocy?

 

[appleburger]

Oh. So you don't agree.

Please tell me. How does one refute the action of idiocy?

Oh, God. Allow me to explain how to properly call somebody stupid.

1. You need an example. Idiotic is a vague term. So nobody even knows specifically what you’re referencing. Here’s an example: the opposite of idiotic would be intelligent - not reasonable. I’m fortunate enough to be fluent in the English language, so this is an easy one for me

2. You don’t then say “hurr durr how can you refute an action”? Because that makes you look like a fucking idiot. I’m not refuting whatever the hell it is you’re talking about, because you’ve failed to even make that clear. I’m just calling you an asshole and telling you to go fuck your self for labeling me as stupid without anything to actually add to the conversation. You could at least specify what you’re referencing instead of hiding behind vagueness and straight up bad logic.

 

[tabzer]

Oh, God. Allow me to explain how to properly call somebody stupid.

1. You need an example. Idiotic is a vague term. So nobody even knows specifically what you’re referencing. Here’s an example: the opposite of idiotic would be intelligent - not reasonable. I’m fortunate enough to be fluent in the English language, so this is an easy one for me

2. You don’t then say “hurr durr how can you refute an action”? Because that makes you look like a fucking idiot. I’m not refuting whatever the hell it is you’re talking about, because you’ve failed to even make that clear. I’m just calling you an asshole and telling you to go fuck your self for labeling me as stupid without anything to actually add to the conversation. You could at least specify what you’re referencing instead of hiding behind vagueness and straight up bad logic.

I find your responses to be both disproportionate and satiating. I was using reasonable as a synonym of intelligent, hence the pairing;--but if you don't want that, that's fine with me.

 

[appleburger]

I find your responses to be both disproportionate and satiating. I was using reasonable as a synonym of intelligent, hence the pairing;--but if you don't want that, that's fine with me.

You can be reasonable and stupid. I’d say you are, but your reason is pretttttty shaky. Words are hard, I get it, but dude - come on.

If you want to give me something to refute, then go for it. So far you haven’t. You said that I’m an idiot in a vacuum, and then go to say that me telling you to go fuck yourself is fulfilling whatever the hell it is you’re trying to get to. Glad you’re satisfied - you looked like an idiot pulling it off.

 

[tabzer]

You can be reasonable and stupid. I’d say you are, but your reason is pretttttty shaky. Words are hard, I get it, but dude - come on.

If you want to give me something to refute, then go for it. So far you haven’t. You said that I’m an idiot in a vacuum, and then go to say that me telling you to go fuck yourself is fulfilling whatever the hell it is you’re trying to get to. Glad you’re satisfied - you looked like an idiot pulling it off.

You can be idiotic and intelligent. I think you are demonstrating it. I find words to be interesting, not particularly frustrating. If you want to recap what happened, feel free to read from the top.

 

[appleburger]

You can be idiotic and intelligent. I think you are demonstrating it. I find words to be interesting, not particularly frustrating. If you want to recap what happened, feel free to read from the top.

Okay my intellectual sage - use those words to elaborate and actually make a point before throwing “stupid” my way and then telling me that reasonable is a synonym for intelligence. You can use doorknob as a synonym for intelligence for all I care - doesn’t make it the case.

Again, you threw that my way vaguely and then hid behind that when I told you to fuck off. You haven’t actually made a point. I have. You’re an asshole and failing at trying to call me stupid, which is kind of hilarious.

If you think my reaction to you calling me an idiot is what makes me stupid, then so be it. That’s literally circular logic. Feel free to actually join the conversation if you want to flex those big brain muscles and show us that sweet “curiosity” of yours.

 

[subcon959]

That's going to certainly be covered in the trials when creating these vaccines. I don't think spiked protein levels are going to "whoopsie" their way into these with the whole world watching.

The adverse reactions to vaccines are almost always because of how certain individuals react to vaccines. I've known people that get severe reactions to most vaccines. They do exist, but they all found out when they were kids, since we already have to get vaccines for school. And even then, these reactions are almost never deadly. You're far, far, far more likely to be murdered by your cat, or accidentally strangle yourself in your bedsheets once you get into those numbers.

I wouldn't call those side effects nondisclosed. And if they were not disclosed... you wouldn't be aware of them. Everything worthwhile is documented when you visit the doctor. It's not in anyone's interest to keep it hidden. The medical field is a community of people trying to understand everything as best as possible. And my friend's sister (who gets severe vaccine reactions) has had it all documented in her visits. She just has an immune system that's a bit unique and attacks foreign bodies more aggressively than most. To the point that she's been hospitalized from them. Any time I've visited a doctor and ask for documentation, I get it, and it's pretty robust stuff. They're happy to hand it out. Everything that happened is on there.

Unkown long term effects could be applied to literally anything that hasn't been around long enough. There's no reason to assume there are any to begin with. You could say the same thing about any medication that's come out in the past 80 years, and long term side effects from vaccines, medications, etc. are rare - much more rare than your odds of dying from COVID. Like, not even close. It's a dice roll, but an easy one imo.

The problem is that this process is susceptible to corruption. The specific example I had in mind was Vioxx as that is the one that affected me personally and is the reason I'm conveying information from med school friends rather than what would've been my own experience of being a doctor for the last 20 plus years. Merck didn't disclose the known side effects of that drug (gen, rofecoxib) which ended up causing fatal cardiac events in many people, as well as strokes and other non-fatal injuries in others including yours truly. Trials and peer-review aren't bullet proof unfortunately.

 

[appleburger]

The problem is that this process is susceptible to corruption. The specific example I had in mind was Vioxx as that is the one that affected me personally and is the reason I'm conveying information from med school friends rather than what would've been my own experience of being a doctor for the last 20 plus years. Merck didn't disclose the known side effects of that drug (gen, rofecoxib) which ended up causing fatal cardiac events in many people, as well as strokes and other non-fatal injuries in others including yours truly. Trials and peer-review aren't bullet proof unfortunately.

And I think that’s totally fair to point out. There HAVE been mishaps in the medical field. Severe ones.

But, I’d expect that to be far less likely specifically for covid vaccines, because of the sheer drive the entire human race is going to have to make sure this is done effectively. I think there’s too much skin in the game. Where there’s corruption, there’s whistleblowers. And I’d find it incredibly difficult to keep shenanigans involving covid under wraps. Bill Clinton couldn’t even handle a minor case of infidelity, ya know?

I think the corruption is more likely to be placed where there will be less eyes on it. So, I’m not denying your fears, but if I were to bet I would think your fears are highly unlikely to be manifested in the case of covid vaccines.

 

[subcon959]

And I think that’s totally fair to point out. There HAVE been mishaps in the medical field. Severe ones.

But, I’d expect that to be far less likely specifically for covid vaccines, because of the sheer drive the entire human race is going to have to make sure this is done effectively. I think there’s too much skin in the game. Where there’s corruption, there’s whistleblowers. And I’d find it incredibly difficult to keep shenanigans involving covid under wraps. Bill Clinton couldn’t even handle a minor case of infidelity, ya know?

I think the corruption is more likely to be placed where there will be less eyes on it. So, I’m not denying your fears, but if I were to bet I would think your fears are highly unlikely to be manifested in the case of covid vaccines.

It's funny you mentioned whistleblowers as I recently read something about Pfizer lobbying to try and block legislation that would make it easier for whistleblowers to report fraud.

 

[appleburger]

It's funny you mentioned whistleblowers as I recently read something about Pfizer lobbying to try and block legislation that would make it easier for whistleblowers to report fraud.

And I’ll bet people are all over Pfizer if that’s the case. But if whatever shenanigans they’re up to are bad enough to seriously impact you, me and everyone else that gets the vaccine, that will go against their own interests. It would also require an amazing amount of collusion that the government normally can’t even pull off with top secret documents. People are pretty good at sniffing that stuff out. We love us some drama.

I personally have no idea what everyone is up to, obviously. But I like my odds with the vaccinations vs. the virus itself. It’s not even close. Although if you’re simply stating that you aren’t comfortable with the possibility of any kind of corruption, regardless of those odds - I get it.

 

[subcon959]

And I’ll bet people are all over Pfizer if that’s the case. But if whatever shenanigans they’re up to are bad enough to seriously impact you, me and everyone else that gets the vaccine, that will go against their own interests. It would also require an amazing amount of collusion that the government normally can’t even pull off with top secret documents. People are pretty good at sniffing that stuff out. We love us some drama.

I personally have no idea what everyone is up to, obviously. But I like my odds with the vaccinations vs. the virus itself. It’s not even close. Although if you’re simply stating that you aren’t comfortable with the possibility of any kind of corruption, regardless of those odds - I get it.

I'm definitely just stating my concerns and nothing more as I've had my vaccinations plus a booster shot.

Btw, it's not a collusion issue, the way the law is set up any fraud case would be dismissed from court simply because the government was continuing to pay the contractor. You might find this article about "materiality" as shocking as I did.. https://theintercept.com/2021/11/29/pfizer-whistleblower-reform-corporate-fraud/

 

[appleburger]

I'm definitely just stating my concerns and nothing more as I've had my vaccinations plus a booster shot.

Btw, it's not a collusion issue, the way the law is set up any fraud case would be dismissed from court simply because the government was continuing to pay the contractor. You might find this article about "materiality" as shocking as I did.. https://theintercept.com/2021/11/29/pfizer-whistleblower-reform-corporate-fraud/

Ah, yeah Pfizer and 4 other pharmas are spending tons to lobby against that. I was going to say we shouldn't derail the thread further, but I already helped in destroying that a long time ago lol

I wonder what the pharmaceutical companies are saying in response to this. Not even to help justify it, I just wonder what they're attempting to say to justify it, because that doesn't look good. Multiple articles are reporting that they passed medications too quickly in the past. But, hey - at least they're getting called out and clearly have a magnifying glass on them, despite going through third parties to help hide this lobbying, right?

 

[Reiten]

The link @AlexMCS posted actually has quite a few that reference India, specifically. And the deeper I dig, the more I see recent studies showing that it's helping patients quite a bit. I wonder why it's created so much discourse (I didn't listen to the Joe Rogan episode and am not 100% on the claims thrown around involving this drug)

I think the discourse mostly boils down to doctors not wanting to prescribe medicine they are not sure works, or might even cause harm. Of course, they might make exceptions for heavy cases but won't use it until proper studies have been done. It makes sense that you wouldn't claim something works until you have definite proof for it.
Another reason to downplay it is that people are stupid. We've already seen people trying to self medicate, which can cause a number of problems:

• Using the wrong dose and causing harm;
• Using the animal medicine, again not a great idea;
• People depleting the stock, so it's not available for the legitimate use cases;

Other reasons may also be possible, but most of those are speculations without proof, so I'll refrain from those.

 

[Alexander1970]

Valneva explained.

Unfortunately in German,Herr Lingelbach is really "refreshing".
He is vaccinated/boostered with Pfizer and had Side Effects...but he do not "damn" the mRNA Vaccines.

https://www.krone.at/2582924