Austria first country to make Covid vaccine mandatory

[XDel]

So it's been a while... how's this working out for ya'll?!?!? You cured yet? Society back to normal? Are those who NEED help finally getting it, or are ya all still jerking each other off like we do over here?

 

[appleburger]

So it's been a while... how's this working out for ya'll?!?!? You cured yet? Society back to normal? Are those who NEED help finally getting it, or are ya all still jerking each other off like we do over here?

Lol, a select few of us are squabbling in circles about medical science on GBAtemp for some reason. God help us.

 

[bazamuffin]

Do you know the difference between an educated opinion and a non-educated opinion? Or do you think everything anyone says only falls into the category of non-touchable "opinion" and "non-opinion"?

The fact I have to ask this is what makes your posts so cringe, by the way. You seem to lack understanding of how logic or reality works. Almost every post you've made can be easily, and I mean EASILY disproven. That's why I assumed you're likely a troll

No, not a troll. I have an opinion that I stand by, just as you stand by yours. I don't have a problem with that

 

[appleburger]

No, not a troll. I have an opinion that I stand by, just as you stand by yours. I don't have a problem with that

You ignored the whole educated vs. non-educated opinion bit. No surprise there. Your opinions on Science are baseless, stupid, and cringey my friend.

I understand you did your fact vs. opinion worksheet in 3rd grade, but there's a bit more nuance past a 4th grade reading level to discussions that you seemed to have missed out on. We're not talking about "but I like cake, and you don't - matter of opinion". You're trying to discredit science, which involves facts and observations, not simply opinions. You're doing a really shitty job of making any sort of sense. Godspeed.

 

[subcon959]

Hospitals filling up is still an issue. Vaccination is a very effective stop-gap to help alleviate the hospital burden. Are anti-virals helping those out with breathing issues? Like, cases where ventilators would be needed are now prevented largely by anti-virals? I haven't heard about this, yet.

No, unfortunately once someone gets to the ventilator stage the prognosis is quite poor. The protocols are mostly effective if administered before that stage (usually in an outpatient setting) but because people are told to isolate and stay home it is unlikely they will ever be able to take advantage of these treatments before it's too late. Unless you are in a privileged position and have access to a private doctor of course.

 

[appleburger]

No, unfortunately once someone gets to the ventilator stage the prognosis is quite poor. The protocols are mostly effective if administered before that stage (usually in an outpatient setting) but because people are told to isolate and stay home it is unlikely they will ever be able to take advantage of these treatments before it's too late. Unless you are in a privileged position and have access to a private doctor of course.

So, I've looked this up. The only drug currently approved for treating COVID is remdesivir: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...expert-answers/coronavirus-drugs/faq-20485627

And it's primary purpose seems to be speeding up recovery, so it looks at a glance like this is to make recovery more comfortable for patients, but it isn't being used to improve symptoms otherwise. Anti-inflammatories seem to be effective in aiding breathing issues, but that's a given. We've already done this for just about any illness where inflammation comes into play, so no surprise there.

Other anti-virals are being tested, but we don't have any solid leads, yet.

So, vaccines are still the most effective tool for dampening COVID for folks that catch it, so far it seems.

 

[appleburger]

I'm not blaming anyone, there are already people and world's entities who do that better than me.
I only wonder why the current state of medical hasn't improved in 2 years. (it has a little compared to the first days when nobody knew how to treat people, but they are still missing workers and equipment !)
I'm not arguing about the vaccine itself nor its effect or its help in preventing hospital from filling.

We know pandemics last for years, it can mutate (and no, they don't know that future mutation will be fine with current vaccine, maybe they won't and it will be worse), so they will need to care about the patients, but they don't replace people leaving. they remove beds instead.

of course it costs money, I don't ask to build new hospital everywhere, but they could work on improving the medical system little by littleinstead of complaining. it's not like it's been only 2 month, it's been 2 years and still counting.
If they need space, they take Olympic stadiums, they fill them with tents and medical equipment, etc.
no need to build an hospital. just some "covid treatment center" instead of complaining they don't have enough.
didn't china do that 2 years ago ? they built an entire facility for covid patient in few weeks ! How many other countries did that ?

It's a fair point, although you totally did mention the unvaccinated being blamed, so that's why I brought it up

And to add to what you're saying, COVID may obviously not be the last pandemic we face in our lifetimes. Hospitals haven't been given the attention they've needed to prepare for serious disease. The US has overprepared when it comes to war, but hasn't done the same for medical threats. Which, as we all know, bio weapons are real and could be an issue for us or a future generation. It's a real concern to be addressed.

 

[bazamuffin]

You ignored the whole educated vs. non-educated opinion bit. No surprise there. Your opinions on Science are baseless, stupid, and cringey my friend.

I understand you did your fact vs. opinion worksheet in 3rd grade, but there's a bit more nuance past a 4th grade reading level to discussions that you seemed to have missed out on. We're not talking about "but I like cake, and you don't - matter of opinion". You're trying to discredit science, which involves facts and observations, not simply opinions. You're doing a really shitty job of making any sort of sense. Godspeed.

If you say so, not like your opinion affects me in any way is it? I don't feel I have to protest or justify my opinion to anyone who disagrees with me.

 

[subcon959]

So, I've looked this up. The only drug currently approved for treating COVID is remdesivir: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...expert-answers/coronavirus-drugs/faq-20485627

And it's primary purpose seems to be speeding up recovery, so it looks at a glance like this is to make recovery more comfortable for patients, but it isn't being used to improve symptoms otherwise. Anti-inflammatories seem to be effective in aiding breathing issues, but that's a given. We've already done this for just about any illness where inflammation comes into play, so no surprise there.

Other anti-virals are being tested, but we don't have any solid leads, yet.

So, vaccines are still the most effective tool for dampening COVID for folks that catch it, so far it seems.

If we're talking about USA specifically (I wasn't) then the protocols I mentioned are being used by (mostly) private doctors to treat patients. They aren't officially approved and won't be offered to anyone visiting a hospital that's for sure. For that, people will have to wait (tough luck if you're dying right now) for the sanctioned drugs from the wonderful people at Merck et al to arrive.

 

[appleburger]

If you say so, not like your opinion affects me in any way is it? I don't feel I have to protest or justify my opinion to anyone who disagrees with me.

Not talking about our opinions, you big dummy lmao. Starting to question if you're literate. And if you don't want to justify or back up what you say, then nobody is going to listen. Plus, you're clearly stupid so it's kinda pointless (got 'em)

Alright, I'll leave you alone buddy. You go do you.

 

[appleburger]

If we're talking about USA specifically (I wasn't) then the protocols I mentioned are being used by (mostly) private doctors to treat patients. They aren't officially approved and won't be offered to anyone visiting a hospital that's for sure. For that, people will have to wait (tough luck if you're dying right now) for the sanctioned drugs from the wonderful people at Merck et al to arrive.

Interesting - do you have a source on this? I'm not finding it on my own over here

 

[bazamuffin]

Not talking about our opinions, you big dummy lmao. Starting to question if you're literate. And if you don't want to justify or back up what you say, then nobody is going to listen. Plus, you're clearly stupid so it's kinda pointless (got 'em)

Alright, I'll leave you alone buddy. You go do you.

Same to you, have fun

 

[appleburger]

Same to you, have fun

*hug

 

[subcon959]

Interesting - do you have a source on this? I'm not finding it on my own over here

I didn't read it anywhere, it's from conversations with med school friends who are now practicing in various countries. It's quite interesting, the one's in India seem to swear by Ivermectin, which is in stark contrast to how it is portrayed over here in the West.

 

[AlexMCS]

Other anti-virals are being tested, but we don't have any solid leads, yet.

Like I typed a few posts back (and no one bothered reading or countering it, not even the science buffs, for whatever reason) there is Ivermectin, which me and my wife used when I got CoViD-19 in March.

BTW, while I got sick for a month, she felt nothing at all.

And there are plenty of studies to back up its effect in reducing viral charge on the onset of the disease:
https://c19ivermectin.com/

 

[appleburger]

Like I typed a few posts back (and no one bothered reading or countering it, not even the science buffs, for whatever reason) there is Ivermectin, which me and my wife used when I got CoViD-19 in March.

BTW, while I got sick for a month, she felt nothing at all.

And there are plenty of studies to back up its effect in reducing viral charge on the onset of the disease:
https://c19ivermectin.com/

Ivermectin has been shown to not cure COVID. I read through all that when Joe Rogan got under fire bringing it up. That's been pretty handily debunked now. Or, at least I thought - or am I misinterpreting something?

EDIT: here's a quick article summing up the Ivermectin situation: https://www.reuters.com/article/fac...-prove-its-efficacy-on-covid-19-idUSL1N2QB2XA

I've only checked a handful of sources, but it seems the consensus is it shouldn't be used to treat COVID.

DOUBLE EDIT: (sorry) okay, I'm looking through those studies you linked to. There's conflicting information. Some are saying it's effective, while others aren't drawing the same conclusion. Which, I had no idea there was this much discourse among scientists on this. I'll have to keep digging. Thanks for sharing

 

[appleburger]

I didn't read it anywhere, it's from conversations with med school friends who are now practicing in various countries. It's quite interesting, the one's in India seem to swear by Ivermectin, which is in stark contrast to how it is portrayed over here in the West.

Everything I've read on Ivermectin is that it should NOT be used to treat COVID.

After looking through the articles in @AlexMCS's post, I'm not even sure how Ivermectin is going. I can't find a solid consensus, and some studies are concluding it's effective against COVID symptoms, while others aren't. So that's going to take some more research. I don't get it.

EDIT: and if your only source is from word of mouth from med school friends, and it's literally not being documented by anybody... that doesn't leave a thread for anyone to pull on. Guess we'll just have to wait to see if you're right, but I find it hard to believe that's happening without anyone writing about it. Unless one of your friends can describe one of these procedures you're talking about? And what kind of sample size are we talking about? That's all very shaky.

 

[AlexMCS]

I literally linked you over a hundred studies proving it does reduce viral charge, and works as an early treatment option.
You linked me a Reuters' (mass media) article/report "debunking" it by saying the CDC does not recommend using the animal version, in overdose, for treatment on all stages.

This is not "a friend's" PoV. My personal doctor, who is a 75y.o. Infectologist, prescribed me and his 8k+ patients with Ivermectin, all with positive results.

It should NOT be used as a preventive treatment, in the animal version, or in excessive dosage, but it does work in fighting CoViD-19. That is literally not even a point of discussion anymore.

Check actual sources: the studies, not third parties.

 

[appleburger]

I literally linked you over a hundred studies proving it does reduce viral charge, and works as an early treatment option.
You linked me a Reuters' (mass media) article/report "debunking" it by saying the CDC does not recommend using the animal version, in overdose, for treatment on all stages.

This is not "a friend's" PoV. My personal doctor, who is a 75y.o. Infectologist, prescribed me and his 8k+ patients with Ivermectin, all with positive results.

It should NOT be used as a preventive treatment, in the animal version, or in excessive dosage, but it does work in fighting CoViD-19. That is literally not even a point of discussion anymore.

Check actual sources: the studies, not third parties.

No, you're totally right - I was only finding a quick and dirty summary quickly explaining what reflected what I had heard. Once I finished doing some reading through your link I edited my post.

 

[subcon959]

Everything I've read on Ivermectin is that it should NOT be used to treat COVID.

EDIT: and if your only source is from word of mouth from med school friends, and it's literally not being documented by anybody... that doesn't leave a thread for anyone to pull on. Guess we'll just have to wait to see if you're right, but I find it hard to believe that's happening without anyone writing about it. Unless one of your friends can describe one of these procedures you're talking about? And what kind of sample size are we talking about? That's all very shaky.

They aren't epidemiologists, they're just doctors treating patients. I'm more inclined to trust them than some institution just like I'm more inclined to believe a soldier on the ground than some politician. I'm sure you could probably find something about the Ivermectin use in India as I've seen that mentioned around here before. Personally, I thought it looked promising at first but then didn't see any compelling studies and the most favourable one was inconclusive at best. But again, who am I to argue with the doctor actually saving lives and saying it adds something of value to the protocol. My money is on the mabs and prednisolone being the main heroes.