Gaming Bought a new destkop but i don't know if it is a good one

[stylow]

Guys after hearing this i decided to return it to my friend but how should i begin making my own pc as i don't have the money yet to buy all the parts now so i thought let me first get the really basic things first like a chassis and motherboard

I'm just an amateur, but I stand by my opinion about not bothering with updating old systems.
If you're set on building your own unit, I would argue that you should decide on your processor or motherboard 1st. The motherboard is picky on which processor and RAM it will use. For example, there are a few dozen types of RAM that are sold at a best buy or similar retail store, my motherboard, only accepts two of those kind. Even if the RAM fits in the slot, my PC won't power on if it has anything other than PC 4200 or PC2 5300 DDR2. And it will only accept the processors AMD Athlon, Athlon 64X2 up to 5000, or AMD Sempron.

So you either choose the processer you want, and then choose the compatible motherboard, or you choose the motherboard, and then choose the processor it can support.

If it were me, I'd choose my processor 1st, and then choose the motherboard that likes it, and worry about the rest later. Course my agenda is PS2 emulation, where processor is the influencing factor.

So if i understand this right can i replace the current processor from the destkop i buyed and than as you say replace the motherboard with a motherboard it likes and than replace all the other things like the videocard

You can replace any part you want/have to just so as long as the motherboard was built for them. You can pick an excellent motherboard, and an ok-processor just as long as they are compatible, and then when you get more money, choose to replace that processor for a better one. Note that the processor will still have to be compatible... so theres no garuntee that a motherboard you buy in 2012, will work with newer processors you might want to buy in 2017. Even if you buy an Intel motherboard, theres a high-chance that in 5 years from now, the Intel i7's that are all the rage now, will be replaced by Intel ZZZZZmadeupfuturechipZZX1

But yeah... you can switch out and swap cheap parts with newer parts just as long as they''re compatible. Most motherboards do support multiple-types of processors of the same brand. That "compatibility" word I keep throwing around is exactly the reason why you can't/shouldn't upgrade your Packard Bell. Its Pentium 4. Its not like it has the hardware to allow you to upgrade to a Core Duo, or an i3. You can get processors fairly cheap, but it won't do you any good putting it in an older machine that won't even accept it. If you wanted to upgrade your friend's Packard, you'll have to hunt down most-likely used parts that were made 5, 6 years ago. But back to the main thing, you can switch and swap parts and blah blah compatibility blah.

Thank you all for the help and i made up my final decision first i am going to change the processor than i am going to replace the motherboard and after upgradin the other things i will change the processor again for a better one and with a good and better compatible motherboard

 

[Originality]

Ok, let us know what processor you find that's compatible with your current motherboard. It would be interesting to know what you find that's an "upgrade".

 

[Majorami]

Guys after hearing this i decided to return it to my friend but how should i begin making my own pc as i don't have the money yet to buy all the parts now so i thought let me first get the really basic things first like a chassis and motherboard

I'm just an amateur, but I stand by my opinion about not bothering with updating old systems.
If you're set on building your own unit, I would argue that you should decide on your processor or motherboard 1st. The motherboard is picky on which processor and RAM it will use. For example, there are a few dozen types of RAM that are sold at a best buy or similar retail store, my motherboard, only accepts two of those kind. Even if the RAM fits in the slot, my PC won't power on if it has anything other than PC 4200 or PC2 5300 DDR2. And it will only accept the processors AMD Athlon, Athlon 64X2 up to 5000, or AMD Sempron.

So you either choose the processer you want, and then choose the compatible motherboard, or you choose the motherboard, and then choose the processor it can support.

If it were me, I'd choose my processor 1st, and then choose the motherboard that likes it, and worry about the rest later. Course my agenda is PS2 emulation, where processor is the influencing factor.

So if i understand this right can i replace the current processor from the destkop i buyed and than as you say replace the motherboard with a motherboard it likes and than replace all the other things like the videocard

You can replace any part you want/have to just so as long as the motherboard was built for them. You can pick an excellent motherboard, and an ok-processor just as long as they are compatible, and then when you get more money, choose to replace that processor for a better one. Note that the processor will still have to be compatible... so theres no garuntee that a motherboard you buy in 2012, will work with newer processors you might want to buy in 2017. Even if you buy an Intel motherboard, theres a high-chance that in 5 years from now, the Intel i7's that are all the rage now, will be replaced by Intel ZZZZZmadeupfuturechipZZX1

But yeah... you can switch out and swap cheap parts with newer parts just as long as they''re compatible. Most motherboards do support multiple-types of processors of the same brand. That "compatibility" word I keep throwing around is exactly the reason why you can't/shouldn't upgrade your Packard Bell. Its Pentium 4. Its not like it has the hardware to allow you to upgrade to a Core Duo, or an i3. You can get processors fairly cheap, but it won't do you any good putting it in an older machine that won't even accept it. If you wanted to upgrade your friend's Packard, you'll have to hunt down most-likely used parts that were made 5, 6 years ago. But back to the main thing, you can switch and swap parts and blah blah compatibility blah.

Thank you all for the help and i made up my final decision first i am going to change the processor than i am going to replace the motherboard and after upgradin the other things i will change the processor again for a better one and with a good and better compatible motherboard

Pentium 4 is discontinued... You can pickup a used one on eBay. But you have to understand that there was kind of a "revolution" years ago from the transition of single to multi-core CPU's.

Most people can switch out their parts, you however cannot, Atleast not in this timeline. YOU can't upgrade your motherboard, and then your processor like most people can, you have to upgrade the two together. You cannot get anything better than Pentium 4 on your motherboard, and upgrading the motherboard means you can't use Pentium 4. Because your system is so old, you pretty much have to upgrade multiple parts simultaneously.

You can start by googling your CP's model number and looking at the specs to see just how far you can upgrade. You may be able to bring up your old computer to 2007/2008's standards, but your current hardware will never be on par with semi-basic-2012 PC's.

If you do not get a graphics card, you may be able to keep your power supply and case when building a new PC. You'll pretty much have to get a new processor, motherboard, and RAM all at the same time, and this is assuming your case has the positioned sockets that match your motherboard that will allow you to secure your component.

What I gave you above was really just information, not helpful information, because theres really not much you can do. To me... your only upgrade option for that Packard's motherboard, whatever its chipset is, is the Intel Pentium 4 600 or above series, and the price of it alone is more than the computer itself is worth, and when you DO decide to upgrade the motherboard, then that Pentium 4 won't be compatible with whatever new board you'll get, and you'll have to spend more money on a new processor, AND THEN you have to worry about RAM.

Back to the car analogy, thats like buying an engine for a car, use it for awhile, then buying a transmission that will require an all-new engine plus a new alternator. Not a car person, not sure if that makes sense, but I am saying that in your case, upgrading the motherboard means upgrading all the other parts because its the most influential part in the system. Its what everything has to connect to so it all has to work together. If you have one part that doesn't do it's function, then you have junk.

Basically what I'm saying is if you want a "project" that you want to pretty-up, knowing full-well you're going to have to go through alot of trouble and reading... then go for it. If not, then consider starting from scratch or buying a prebuilt, or custom-pre-built one. I myself would love to make my own PC, but building off a motherboard from 2005 or below is a bad startoff point.

---

 

[marcus134]

Thank you all for the help and i made up my final decision first i am going to change the processor than i am going to replace the motherboard

if you do it that way, you may be able to fit a p4 6xx (not much of an upgrade) or a pd 8xx/9xx (somewhat of an upgrade, benefit to multi-threading only) if Packard B. allowed it in the mobo's bios. Then you'll find a socket 775 mobo that can fit a core 2 (duo and quad, meaty upgrade) but you'll be stuck with a p4 like performances.

Upgrading the motherboards first is a better idea.

Gaming and GPU:
from what I read from some post on the web (can't be certain), i believe it comes with a 250w psu, this is definitely not enough to power a graphic card, you'll have to buy a better psu before.

 

[stylow]

Thank you all for the help and i made up my final decision first i am going to change the processor than i am going to replace the motherboard

if you do it that way, you may be able to fit a p4 6xx (not much of an upgrade) or a pd 8xx/9xx (somewhat of an upgrade, benefit to multi-threading only) if Packard B. allowed it in the mobo's bios. Then you'll find a socket 775 mobo that can fit a core 2 (duo and quad, meaty upgrade) but you'll be stuck with a p4 like performances.

Upgrading the motherboards first is a better idea.

Gaming and GPU:
from what I read from some post on the web (can't be certain), i believe it comes with a 250w psu, this is definitely not enough to power a graphic card, you'll have to buy a better psu before.

Guys i don't know if this is going to help but the processor is a pentium D not 4

 

[Jamstruth]

Pentium D is the earliest Dual Core around. I used to have a 2.80GHz one running XP MCE. Near the end it was keeping up through brute force from that 2.8GHz alone. With 2GB of RAM and a half decent graphics card (I had a 7900GS) it could run Source engine on Medium to High settings depending on resolution.
Upgrading it, however, is going to be a hassle. Basically every part will need changed. Graphics card and RAM should be the first, that'll get it up to the specs of my old machine (assuming its the 2.8GHz) and will be relatively cheap. Past that though its going to be an uphill struggle. More RAM than 2GB may not be possible due to motherboard constraints, space in the case will probably mean you can't fit any bigger cards. Since its a Socket 775 for a Pentium D an upgrade to a Core2Duo might be possible on the motherboard though.

 

[Joe88]

Pentium D is the earliest Dual Core around. I used to have a 2.80GHz one running XP MCE. Near the end it was keeping up through brute force from that 2.8GHz alone. With 2GB of RAM and a half decent graphics card (I had a 7900GS) it could run Source engine on Medium to High settings depending on resolution.
Upgrading it, however, is going to be a hassle. Basically every part will need changed. Graphics card and RAM should be the first, that'll get it up to the specs of my old machine (assuming its the 2.8GHz) and will be relatively cheap. Past that though its going to be an uphill struggle. More RAM than 2GB may not be possible due to motherboard constraints, space in the case will probably mean you can't fit any bigger cards. Since its a Socket 775 for a Pentium D an upgrade to a Core2Duo might be possible on the motherboard though.

the chipsets are so outdated that I doubt a core2duo (conroe series) will even work in it

 

[stylow]

Pentium D is the earliest Dual Core around. I used to have a 2.80GHz one running XP MCE. Near the end it was keeping up through brute force from that 2.8GHz alone. With 2GB of RAM and a half decent graphics card (I had a 7900GS) it could run Source engine on Medium to High settings depending on resolution.
Upgrading it, however, is going to be a hassle. Basically every part will need changed. Graphics card and RAM should be the first, that'll get it up to the specs of my old machine (assuming its the 2.8GHz) and will be relatively cheap. Past that though its going to be an uphill struggle. More RAM than 2GB may not be possible due to motherboard constraints, space in the case will probably mean you can't fit any bigger cards. Since its a Socket 775 for a Pentium D an upgrade to a Core2Duo might be possible on the motherboard though.

Can you tell me which graphic card and ram i should buy as my current ram is really low
EDIT: Guys My Videocard isn't a ati radeon Xpress 200sound it is a Xpress 1100 don't know the differences but when i googled the review of it they said it is Good for Gaming ???

 

[Jamstruth]

Its an integrated graphics processor. EXPECT NOTHING FROM IT OTHER THAN AERO!
From looking around it seems to be a bit above the normal IGP, it might be able to handle Source on low (remember Source is pretty damned outdated now).

I can tell you from having a near identical (but older model) of this desktop that in upgrading it you're essentially going to be building a new PC, just slowly. An extra gig of RAM and a lower end graphics card (Assuming your Mobo has a PCI-e x16 slot) is going to be the max you can do without rebuilding the thing in a bigger case with a better motherboard and processor. Those are some pretty big things. Anything you do will make it just about suffice as a office-box/basic-gamer before its essentially a new machine. If you're not wanting to do anything too strenuous though, it could work for you though.

For RAM I used Crucial's tester to find the RAM specs I need, also how much the machine can take (i think that gets covered). For Graphics Card I'm not terribly sure. Assuming you have a PCI-e slot you've got the pick of any low-end card. When I got mine DX10 was just being introduced and I had an XP machine so I got a high-end DX9 card while they were widely available and relatively cheap. Now...well its been a while since this machine was relevant so a low-end of the last generation of cards, possibly? I'm not going to suggest you spend a lot on the machine at this stage. You can check for a PCI-e slot in the mainboard tab of CPU-Z. You can also use CPU-Z to check what type of RAM is already in your machine (SPD tab). You want something as close to that spec as you can find.

 

[marcus134]

Can you tell me which graphic card and ram i should buy as my current ram is really low
EDIT: Guys My Videocard isn't a ati radeon Xpress 200sound it is a Xpress 1100 don't know the differences but when i googled the review of it they said it is Good for Gaming ???

You've got ddr2 ram, you should open your case first to see how many slot you have and how many are free in order to plan for that upgrade.

about the gpu, you probably have a pci express slot available on your mobo for that, you should make sure it is the case. you also have to check your power supply power rating, if it's really 250w, you'll have to upgrade that before being able to put a graphic card. Also id' like you to confirm if your desktop is low profile or standard width.

the xpress igp is capable of gaming because of the amd (ati) driver which ensure compatibility with directX9 games (unlike intel or via igp). It has however pretty weak rendering performances, comparable to a fx5200, 9200se or gma x3500 (according to tom's hardware), we're talking about pretty weak performances (gaming) for 2003. You shouldn't let yourself get discouraged by that, I was able to run torchlight (2009) on a 2003 Via igp (even weaker), it's really a case per case scenario when it comes to games that can run smoothly on that.

 

[CCNaru]

tinyurl.com/falconguide

 

[Foxi4]

Guys after hearing this i decided to return it to my friend but how should i begin making my own pc as i don't have the money yet to buy all the parts now so i thought let me first get the really basic things first like a chassis and motherboard

If you don't have money, you do the "Low Budget" move. It's a manouver with several points - you progress along the line if you still can't afford it.

1. You *need* to buy a CPU, a Motherboard and compatible RAM memory, that's Computers 101. The CPU should have a boxed radiator for it - all you have to do is make sure that the socket is compatible and mount the CPU in the Motherboard according to the instructions provided with the set. General Rule? "If you're posh, you get Intel. If you're cheap, you get AMD". Of course this is an over-exaggeration, but AMD usually has "cheaper" alternatives to Intel, even if they're less efficient. Dual-Core CPU's are the current standard, if you can afford a Quad-Core, get one. As far as Memory is concerned, 2GB is today's "safe minimum" - you shouldn't get any lower then that. 4 is recommended, anything over that is more then welcome. Make sure to divide your memory into two (or any other even number that your Motherboard supports - usually they have 2-4 slots) modules to create a Dual Channel set unless you are positively sure that you will buy a second module soon. Do your best to buy two identical modules for the set (for compatibility's and performance's sake) however sticks of different brands should be perfectly compatible. Corsair and Patriot > Everything else. GoodRAM's are "good" if you want some cheap RAM memory fast - I can recommend them.

2. You *need* a PSU - if you're building a gaming rig then you need to add the Wattage of the CPU (usually anywhere between 100W and 150W), the GPU (If present, 300W or more - refer to the box the card came in) and misc. (leave about 100W of a margin), making a circa 600W PSU the optimal, reasonable and minimal choice. This is one of those parts that you don't have to invest "much" in if you don't have to - a steady PSU is obviously better however a salvaged one may serve you just fine for the time-being. Make sure your PSU is SATA-ready.

3. You need a hard drive. You can salvage one from an older computer to make-due, you can also buy a new one. The capacity is for open debate, really - just buy one that'll give you enough storage. If you can afford it, buy the fastest one you can get. Don't look at SSD drives - they're too expensive for a small budget. Optical drives are what you want. The general rule is Western Digital > Samsung, I suppose > Seagate > Maxtor > All the other crap that's out there. If you want to feel safe with your data, don't go cheapo on the drive. Make sure it's a SATA drive - ATA drives are a dying breed, only use them if you have a salvaged one. Worst case scenario = install your OS on a USB stick if you can't afford a drive at the moment.

4. You need a graphics card. You go either of 2 ways - buy an NVidia card or an AMD (ATi) card. This is really a matter of taste, so I suggest simply looking up some benchmarks and checking the ratio of Quality/Price that you feel comfortable in. If you *CANNOT* afford a Graphics card at this time, make sure that the Motherboard you purchased has an on-board Graphics chip. You're going to make-due until you get some cash to invest more. HINT: Supposedly AMD cards work better in conjunction with AMD CPU's, although I'm not quite sure whether that's true or not.

5. You need a chassis, but it's not a "vital" part. In fact, you can have a computer up and running even without one, so unless you have the bucks for it, don't invest much in it. You can always change the chassis and it's usually not that expensive to swap.

6. You can buy misc. crap of all-sorts - bigger radiators, fans, heat spreaders etc. etc.

Go from the top of the list, eliminate stuff you cannot afford as you go down the list. This is really "Computers for Dummies" so it'd be great if you got some advice from the shop clerk, however don't let him/her sway you too much - if they sniff the "newbie" from you, they WILL try to sell you stuff you don't really need/want.

 

[ILuvGames]

It depends how much money you have and/or are willing to spend. If you are looking to expand/upgrade in the future, then how about an (IMO fairly reasonably priced and fair quality) AMD based system like this :-

All quoted prices are from Scan but probably cheaper if you look around.

Asus M5A99X EVO M/B (Socket AM3) - £95 (a bit expensive maybe, but it will support the latest AM3+ chips if you can afford them/want to upgrade later.) Full ATX. Asus M5A97 M/B (Socket AM3) Full ATX - £75 (same AM3+ support as the EVO).
Corsair XMS3 4 GB DDR3 1600 mhz (CMX4GX3M2A1600C9) - £21. Guaranteed to be compatible with the MB.
Antec 900 Ultimate Case - £80 (maybe a little bit more than you may wish to spend if you do not want a gamng PC). Antec 100 - £42 (Thanks, Originality).
Corsair Builder Series CX600 V2 600W - £45 (Non SLI). (Should handle up to any single MID range GFX Card like an AMD 6950/NVIDIA 560 ti).
Seagate 1TB Sata 3 Hard Drive (ST100DM003) - £82. Western Digital Caviar Black 750 GB (WD7502AAEX) - £89. (Hard Drive prices are still a bit high but always look around for a cheaper price).

A choice of CPU's (all compatible with the suggested MB's) :-

AMD FX 6100 Black - £109. (Bios Revision 0813 or later with the EVO/0815 or later with the cheaper M5A97).
AMD FX 4100 Black - £84. (Bios Revision 0813 or later).
AMD Athlon II X2 265 - £47.

All the other CPU's in the AMD AM3 Range probably won't beat the FX CPU's for price or speed (like the Phenom Range) so I haven't included them.

Don't forget to value in a GFX Card, Windows and an optical drive (DVD and/or BLURAY). Your teacher may be able to get you a copy of Windows cheap as you are a student.

I wouldn't recommend an NVIDIA card ATM as they are having some serious driver issues (TDR's on some mid-range cards (like my 560 ti for example)).

Yes, their are cheaper MB's/Cases but IMO (although not many things are future-proof), I think it would better to spend the extra now rather than later.

 

[Originality]

Regarding Foxi's HDD suggestion, the scale is more like this:

For boot drive: Western Digital Caviar Black > Samsung Spinpoint F3 > WD Caviar Blue > Hitachi Deskstar > Seagate anything (Maxtor are Seagate).
For storage drive: Western Digital Caviar Green > Samsung Spinpoint F4EG > Anything else.

Pay no attention to SATA 2/3, the performance is almost identical. Just get whichever drive is cheaper so long as it's not Seagate (it's not worth buying Seagate seeing how many of their drives die in the first year).

Regarding ILuvGames' build, it may be better to get an Antec 100 instead of an Antec 900. Also you can get 4GB Corsair XMS3 RAM for £15. Finally, he should probably look in the 500-750GB range for his HDD, since that's around the £60 mark. Either way, European prices will be different to British prices, which is why he needs to first find a store/website that he can order from and then look at the prices there.

Just a reminder, getting an AMD Llano CPU and running off its integrated graphics (e.g. triple core 2.4Ghz A3500 with AMD HD 6530D graphics) is a perfectly viable option for those aiming for an extremely low budget, then saving up for a few more months before buying an actual graphics card.

 

[Foxi4]

Regarding Foxi's HDD suggestion, the scale is more like this:

For boot drive: Western Digital Caviar Black > Samsung Spinpoint F3 > WD Caviar Blue > Hitachi Deskstar > Seagate anything (Maxtor are Seagate).
For storage drive: Western Digital Caviar Green > Samsung Spinpoint F4EG > Anything else.

Agreed except for the Maxtor part. Seriously Seagate and Maxtor are made by the same company, but so are Marlboro and Viceroy cigarettes and yet there's a DISTINCT difference in quality. Maxtor is complete s*it in comparison and I would rather NOT have an HDD at all then buy one of their suicidal HDD's again. Seriously, I bought a 250GB Maxtor a few years back and it keeled over 2 weeks later. They're... bad...

 

[Originality]

I have literally seen the same with Seagate. It's things like that which make me stay away from Seagate as a rule, and tell everybody to do the same.

 

[Foxi4]

I have literally seen the same with Seagate. It's things like that which make me stay away from Seagate as a rule, and tell everybody to do the same.

I agree wholeheartedly. Admittedly after 2-3 years and alot of traveling abroad but I DID lose 250GB of data from my Barracuda 7200.10 (It simply decided that this is the day when Bad Sectors are going to have an orgy and its magnetic capabilities... sort of vanished. Whenever I save data on it, it just fails to read it back, and I tried god knows how many recovery programs on it. That, and the logic board died and decided that S.M.A.R.T is going to be tripped from now on, successfuly impeding any kind of repairs that do not involve physically replacing the logic board. It's kaput.), which is pathetic considering that my WD Caviar 8GB which I had since I was, I don't know, 10 (?) STILL WORKS JUST FINE. They once were a good company but really went downhill.

 

[ILuvGames]

As Originality put, going down the LLano root is fine but you are stuck with a LLano CPU. The motherboards are not compatible with anything else. As a cheap All-In-One (cough) solution they seem good value for money, but as a basis for a potential gaming rig they seem to me to be a bit of a waste of money perfomance wise to me. It's not my money to spend, though. It's all down to Stylo and whether he wants to listen to our advice.

 

[Foxi4]

As Originality put, going down the LLano root is fine but you are stuck with a LLano CPU. The motherboards are not compatible with anything else. As a cheap All-In-One (cough) solution they seem good value for money, but as a basis for a potential gaming rig they seem to me to be a bit of a waste of money perfomance wise.

He can just go for an AM3/3+* motherboard and buy an Athlon II X2 for it which he could buy for the price of a Dog's Dinner while still leaving the option for upgrading to a Phenom CPU later on.

*If they're out by the time he goes shopping lol

 

[Originality]

Remember gaming is mostly based on the graphics, not the processor. The integrated graphics will be good enough for a while, then when you can afford a mid-ranged graphics card (like the HD6770 or GTX 550 or above) you'll get a significant performance boost in gaming. Regulars of the forums will know how often I say that Intel are much stronger than AMD in terms of performance, but for gaming (especially when there's a low budget concerned) all that matters is how much you can spend towards good graphics.

A cheap all-in-one solution is very good value for those on a very low budget. For those who are more flexible (say, €700 or more, although I'm sure I could find a good build for around €450), then many more options open up.