Canadian federal elections of 2021 were rigged

[Xzi]

Startup capital isn't a requirement. You can be the socialism that you want to see in the world. Be careful that it doesn't turn into a ponzi scheme. While potentially lucrative, it usually ends in unfulfillment (and other issues you often attribute to capitalism).

While not quite to the same equal ownership extent I used in my example, both stock options and profit sharing incentives used to be commonplace for US businesses. Back when they were as just as loyal to their employees as they expected their employees to be to them. The "greed is good" era threw all that out the window.

So if I come to America and watch people shift paper in a single location, I will be able to ascertain that America has free and fair elections.

Every single precinct in every single state has representatives from both parties monitor the count. If there was any evidence of widespread fraud, Republicans would've been able to produce it. Instead they were unable to convince even Trump-appointed judges of their baseless accusations, and that's an awfully low bar to clear. Sometimes you just gotta take the L and move on.

If you have to cover windows to hide what you are doing in an open process, it means you are breaking the law.

As above, there were already Republicans in the building. They don't want to subject themselves to constant verbal harassment and potential physical violence more than anybody else, though, especially while trying to focus on their job. Not even sure why that counting center was in plain view of the public to begin with, that's always going to result in poor working conditions even without rabid Trump supporters foaming at the mouth.

That is not socialism because the government does not own the business.

That IS socialism because the workers own the business. Communism is state-owned business, wherein the profits are meant to be redistributed across the entire populace. The problem with that being there's no real enforcement mechanism once everything is gathered up by a small group of people, so their greed usually turns them into oligarchs. Socialism is a means to decentralize and democratize the workplace instead, it's an economic system that isn't inherently connected to governance.

 

[TraderPatTX]

As above, there were already Republicans in the building. They don't want to subject themselves to constant verbal harassment and potential physical violence more than anybody else, though, especially while trying to focus on their job. Not even sure why that counting center was in plain view of the public to begin with, that's always going to result in poor working conditions even without rabid Trump supporters foaming at the mouth.

There was no verbal harassment, and the republicans in the room were kicked out, just like in Georgia after the ""pipe burst"".

That IS socialism because the workers own the business. Communism is state-owned business, wherein the profits are meant to be redistributed across the entire populace. The problem with that being there's no real enforcement mechanism once everything is gathered up by a small group of people, so their greed usually turns them into oligarchs. Socialism is a means to decentralize and democratize the workplace instead, it's an economic system that isn't inherently connected to governance.

Socialism leads to communism because of greed. If we had communism here in the US, you'd be begging for some good ole' fashioned capitalism. Unfortunately, people like you need to be shown, you can't be told. And that is why there have been atrocities throughout history.

 

[Xzi]

There was no verbal harassment, and the republicans in the room were kicked out, just like in Georgia after the ""pipe burst"".

Riiight, because Trump supporters are really known for how calm and collected they tend to be in these types of situations.

Again, it's put up or shut up when it comes to voter/election fraud. There were roughly thirty verified cases of voter fraud in 2020, and the majority of those were committed by Republicans.

Socialism leads to communism because of greed.

Both capitalism and communism often lead to oligarchy because of greed, in both systems too much power and wealth is granted to too small a group of people. Some consider socialism a transitory step toward communism, but for me socialism is the end goal, as it keeps both power and wealth decentralized. The New Deal was socialist-inspired policy, and it led to the most prosperous decades for America's middle class.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Riiight, because Trump supporters are really known for how calm and collected they tend to be in these types of situations.

Bro...

Again, it's put up or shut up when it comes to voter/election fraud. There were roughly thirty verified cases of voter fraud in 2020, and the majority of those were committed by Republicans.

You know what, I'm not ok with that like you are. And you need to watch actual court hearings and testimony of people who are under oath.

Both capitalism and communism often lead to oligarchy because of greed, in both systems too much power and wealth is granted to too small a group of people. Some consider socialism a transitory step toward communism, but for me socialism is the end goal, as it keeps both power and wealth decentralized. The New Deal was socialist-inspired policy, and it led to the most prosperous decades for America's middle class.

It's so weird that communists and fascist both use a form of socialism to attain power, so it doesn't really matter what you think of socialism. I look to the real world for facts, not your emotions. The New Deal was not the reason for the prosperity that followed. FDR's continuing interference in the economy prolonged the Great Depression while other countries came out of it much sooner.

 

[Xzi]

You know what, I'm not ok with that like you are. And you need to watch actual court hearings and testimony of people who are under oath.

You're not okay with courts requiring that a bare minimum standard of evidence be met? Well too bad, not even a Trump judge is willing to risk their career by ruling solely on emotion.

It's so weird that communists and fascist both use a form of socialism to attain power, so it doesn't really matter what you think of socialism.

It's so weird that you don't understand the difference between an economic system and a system of governance. All things being equal you'd also be blaming capitalism for slavery, the Trail of Tears, and Japanese internment camps, but you're clearly not interested in logical consistency.

 

[tabzer]

Every single precinct in every single state has representatives from both parties monitor the count. If there was any evidence of widespread fraud, Republicans would've been able to produce it. Instead they were unable to convince even Trump-appointed judges of their baseless accusations, and that's an awfully low bar to clear. Sometimes you just gotta take the L and move on.

Not only does your comment presume that representation in America is "free and fair", it is going as so far to lean on the republicans (and Trump) as proof of it. I suspected that you were a closet republican.

I thought Trump being elected was proof that a significant portion America thinks of its government as a joke. When you have that many people voting AGAINST the government, there's no turning back.

 

[Xzi]

Not only does your comment presume that representation in America is "free and fair", you are going as so far to lean on the Republicans (and Trump) as proof of it. I suspected that you were a closet republican.

Our elections could certainly be more "free" in the sense that we should have far more than two parties, but being that both parties have representation in every small part of the election process, there's no valid claim to be made that they aren't fair.

And no, obviously I'm not a Republican. I'm a democratic socialist and registered independent. By context it should've been clear I was using the generalized "you," but also kind of referring to you as in Tabzer because you've made several statements indicating you're a Trump fan.

I thought Trump being elected was proof that a significant portion America thinks of its government as a joke. When you have that many people voting AGAINST the government, there's no turning back.

I can't speak to any specific individual's reasoning, but the vote was for which of the two candidates would become head of government. It'd be awfully stupid to presume Trump would want to abolish government when all indications were to the contrary; that he would instead use it to consolidate and increase his own wealth.

 

[tabzer]

there's no valid claim to be made that they aren't fair.

You think your government is free and fair. That's interesting. I don't have any reason to agree or to believe that.

And no, obviously I'm not a Republican. I'm a democratic socialist and registered independent.

It's not obvious what you're playing at. You say you represent something, but then you make it sound so stupid that I figure that you are actively repelling support for "your causes", intentionally.

you've made several statements indicating you're a Trump fan.

Quote one.

I can't speak to any specific individual's reasoning, but the vote was for which of the two candidates would become head of government. It'd be awfully stupid to presume Trump would want to abolish government when all indications were to the contrary; that he would instead use it to consolidate and increase his own wealth.

The existence of the republican party is a bit contradictory. "Let's encourage less government by getting more involved in government." If the republican farce didn't exist, the democrats would be seen, very clearly, for the minority that they represent.

You "elect" politicians, whose policies not only affect the country, but the world, with less than %30 of the "eligible" voters, and you'd have to figure %10-20 of that is driven by fear/panic from "the opposition". It's a charade to make it look like the Government represents "the will of the people". It's a dangerous mob and you are a stooge.

 

[TraderPatTX]

You're not okay with courts requiring that a bare minimum standard of evidence be met? Well too bad, not even a Trump judge is willing to risk their career by ruling solely on emotion.

Funny, I've been told by leftists that every Trump judge was not qualified. Now they are when they rule your way. This is me laughing at you right now. It's also weird that none of those witnesses have been arrested for lying under oath. That kinda makes their claims true.

It's so weird that you don't understand the difference between an economic system and a system of governance. All things being equal you'd also be blaming capitalism for slavery, the Trail of Tears, and Japanese internment camps, but you're clearly not interested in logical consistency.

By saying that communists and fascists both use a form of socialism shows that I do in fact understand the difference. This is probably another case of you not understanding what I write and just making shit up like you do on every other thread. I blame the Democrat Party for extending slavery, the Trail of Tears (Andrew Jackson), and Japanese internment camps (FDR).

 

[Xzi]

You think your government is free and fair. That's interesting. I don't have any reason to agree or to believe that.

Government =/= elections. Stop gish-galloping around when you find yourself in a corner, nobody's impressed.

It's not obvious what you're playing at. You say you represent something, but then you make it sound so stupid that I figure that you are actively repelling support for "your causes", intentionally.

Yet much of what I say seems to sail right over your head.

The existence of the republican party is a bit contradictory. "Let's encourage less government by getting more involved in government." If the republican farce didn't exist, the democrats would be seen, very clearly, for the minority that they represent.

True. If the Republican party didn't exist, Democrats would be viewed as the mostly feckless center-right party that they actually are, and we might have a true leftist party in this country that actually represents the interests of the working class.

Funny, I've been told by leftists that every Trump judge was not qualified. Now they are when they rule your way. This is me laughing at you right now.

I didn't say they were qualified, I said it shouldn't be hard for their fellow Republicans to convince them of something. Assuming they have ANY shred of evidence to support their case anyway, so clearly they didn't.

By saying that communists and fascists both use a form of socialism shows that I do in fact understand the difference.

No, that only demonstrates that you know how to play dumb. Any economic system can be (and has been) used to support a military industrial complex. Spoiler alert: the US has the biggest MIC that has ever existed, and it's supported by capitalism. If people like you had their way, we'd be invading our neighboring countries with it in the same way Russia currently is.

 

[TraderPatTX]

I didn't say they were qualified, I said it shouldn't be hard for their fellow Republicans to convince them of something. Assuming they have ANY shred of evidence to support their case anyway, so clearly they didn't.

I can't help but think of Mueller, Avenatti, the SDNY, Fulton County and the House of Representatives (Adam Schiff), who also didn't prove what they set out to prove.

No, that only demonstrates that you know how to play dumb. Any economic system can be (and has been) used to support a military industrial complex. Spoiler alert: the US has the biggest MIC that has ever existed, and it's supported by capitalism. If people like you had their way, we'd be invading our neighboring countries with it in the same way Russia currently is.

If we had it your way, we'd be engaged in World War III with Russia right now supporting the MIC that you claim to rail against. A long drawn out world war would definitely make the central bankers even more rich and the rest of us even more poor or dead. But as long as Elon Musk and Trump pay billions in taxes, you're small mind is content.

 

[tabzer]

Government =/= elections. Stop gish-galloping around when you find yourself in a corner, nobody's impressed.

So now you are divorcing your government from its elections. The point I'm making isn't a slew of arguments. Do you find the concept overwhelming? You are actively supporting and bolstering your government's legitimacy. Again, I don't have any reason to believe your elections are free or fair.

Yet much of what I say seems to sail right over your head.

Not really. I am able to respond to every point you make. You, on the other hand, seem to ignore a lot of what I say in your responses. Am I to assume that you understand that you are a stooge and that you falsely attributing me as being a "Trump fan" was just an easy way for you to dismiss thinking about something?

 

[Xzi]

I can't help but think of Mueller, Avenatti, the SDNY, Fulton County and the House of Representatives (Adam Schiff), who also didn't prove what they set out to prove.

Okay? Seems like a hell of a departure from the topic of voter/election fraud, but I guess this is as close as I get to a concession from you that there was no evidence to support Trump's lies.

If we had it your way, we'd be engaged in World War III with Russia right now supporting the MIC that you claim to rail against.

Nah I'm perfectly content with the US watching from the sidelines as the imperialist dictator slowly realizes he's overplayed his hand. The only way we get involved directly is if Putin escalates with nuclear or chemical weapons first, but at that point we'd have a moral imperative to intervene.

So now you are divorcing your government from its elections.

Succinctly: not all government officials are elected, or even chosen by those who are. For example, I'd not make the claim that the CIA is in any way "free and fair."

you falsely attributed me as being a "Trump fan"?

Nah, any of your posts from the "January 6th hearings" thread support that assertion. Whole lot of attempts to absolve everyone involved from any responsibility for their actions. You often try to act apathetic to world news/events until conservatives get blamed for something, then it's Tabzer to the defense at lightning speed. So perhaps you're more a fan of the global right in general, but Trump very much falls under that umbrella.

 

[tabzer]

For example, I'd not make the claim that the CIA is in any way "free and fair."

Created by the "elected" representatives. If you read the fine print, then maybe you'd understand that you are actively contributing to the "CIA" by voting for the people who actively choose fund and utilize it. It's a little absurd that I'd have to explain this.

Nah, any of your posts from the "January 6th hearings" thread support that assertion. Whole lot of attempts to absolve everyone involved from any responsibility for their actions. You often try to act apathetic to world news/events until conservatives get blamed for something, then it's Tabzer to the defense at lightning speed. So perhaps you're more a fan of the global right in general, but Trump very much falls under that umbrella.

You should quote something I said that shows I support Trump. Believing that Jan 6th was overblown and potentially facilitated for political reasons is not an unreasonable position that demonstrates support for Trump. I'm pretty consistent.

 

[TraderPatTX]

Okay? Seems like a hell of a departure from the topic of voter/election fraud, but I guess this is as close as I get to a concession from you that there was no evidence to support Trump's lies.

You wanna talk about a departure from the topic. Have you even mentioned Canadian elections?

Nah I'm perfectly content with the US watching from the sidelines as the imperialist dictator slowly realizes he's overplayed his hand. The only way we get involved directly is if Putin escalates with nuclear or chemical weapons first, but at that point we'd have a moral imperative to intervene.

If this war goes nuclear, we won't have to worry about intervening. We'll all be dead or dying from all of the nuclear fallout.

Nah, any of your posts from the "January 6th hearings" thread support that assertion. Whole lot of attempts to absolve everyone involved from any responsibility for their actions. You often try to act apathetic to world news/events until conservatives get blamed for something, then it's Tabzer to the defense at lightning speed. So perhaps you're more a fan of the global right in general, but Trump very much falls under that umbrella.

We'll see who gets absolved when more footage gets released. Footage that's been hidden for over 2 years. Not suspect at all.

 

[tabzer]

If this war goes nuclear, we won't have to worry about intervening. We'll all be dead or dying from all of the nuclear fallout.

Nah. Mostly the city folk, which are largely democratic. In the case of such a scenario, I think of the John Titor narrative--which, sounds kind of nice. Maybe the democrats have a deathwish but are too cowardly to pull the trigger?

 

[Xzi]

Created by the "elected" representatives. If you read the fine print, then maybe you'd understand that you are actively contributing to the "CIA" by voting for the people who actively choose fund and utilize it. It's a little absurd that I'd have to explain this.

In a true democracy we'd be able to vote to abolish the CIA, but the US is, unfortunately, a representative democracy. There are limits on voters' power, clearly. I never claimed otherwise.

That said, if I chose to stop voting altogether, what would that accomplish? You'd criticize me for being apathetic all the same, and I have no interest in trying to impress you regardless.

Believing that Jan 6th was overblown and potentially facilitated for political reasons is not an unreasonable position that demonstrates support for Trump.

It is indeed unreasonable to attempt to excuse criminal behavior, and everybody that was there that day was there at the behest of Trump.

If this war goes nuclear, we won't have to worry about intervening. We'll all be dead or dying from all of the nuclear fallout.

Bold of you to assume Russia's nukes are even in working order, let alone capable of reaching US borders before being shot down. Regardless, this doesn't change the fact that Ukraine has every right to defend their own territory/populace, and Putin alone is responsible for this senseless war.

We'll see who gets absolved when more footage gets released. Footage that's been hidden for over 2 years. Not suspect at all.

You mean the footage that Tucker Carlson is taking weeks to carefully edit and clip together? Yeah, that's not going to change anybody's mind, it's just more sensationalism for the sake of ratings.

 

[tabzer]

In a true democracy we'd be able to vote to abolish the CIA, but the US is, unfortunately, a representative democracy. There are limits on voters' power, clearly. I never claimed otherwise.

If elections are a farce, then they are not free and fair. They are under duress.

That said, if I chose to stop voting altogether, what would that accomplish? You'd criticize me for being apathetic all the same, and I have no interest in trying to impress you regardless.

You are making the argument that if you don't vote, then I would criticize you for being apathetic.

Are you sure that you aren't trying to impress me?

I have never criticized anyone for not voting. I don't vote. I hope that eases your mind. Be a little freer, grasshopper.

It is indeed unreasonable to attempt to excuse criminal behavior, and everybody that was there that day was there at the behest of Trump.

No, not everyone was there at the behest of Trump. That's another shit take. Again, quote me or stfu.

 

[Xzi]

If elections are a farce, then they are not free and fair. They are under duress.

I didn't say they were a farce, I said we don't have the power or option to vote on absolutely everything in a representative democracy. Especially on the federal level.

You are making the argument that if you don't vote, then I would criticize you for being apathetic.

Are you sure that you aren't trying to impress me?

I have never criticized anyone for not voting. I don't vote. I hope that eases your mind. Be a little freer, grasshopper.

Meh, I don't put a lot of faith in any candidate for federal office, but I do enjoy seeing the power of the ballot in action when it comes to state and local issues. Colorado was the first state to legalize recreational marijuana because the people (myself included) made their voices heard.

No, not everyone was there at the behest of Trump.

He says, with 95% of the on-video crowd wearing Trump merch or waving Trump flags.

 

[tabzer]

I didn't say they were a farce, I said we don't have the power or option to vote on absolutely everything in a representative democracy. Especially on the federal level.

I am saying that they are a farce..

Meh, I don't put a lot of faith in any candidate for federal office, but I do enjoy seeing the power of the ballot in action when it comes to state and local issues. Colorado was the first state to legalize recreational marijuana because the people (myself included) made their voices heard.

And in exchange, you got a proxy war with Russia. Nice trade!

He says, with 95% of the on-video crowd wearing Trump merch or waving Trump flags.

Trump drew in a crowd, sure. But that isn't what I was saying. I didn't even try, and you already gave me %5. Can we make it %10?