[Discussion+Poll] How are Trump supporters even a thing?

[Jack Daniels]

You said it is as sentient as a tree. That's what I want evidence for. Also, how about potential? It will be sentient at some point. Do you not see any value in that?


No, I've made the same point you have: "a right to bodily autonomy does not extend to a right to someone else's body". Yet despite that, it's ok to kill an unborn child? That seems like a pretty significant infringement of the rights of someone else's body to me.

a child lives on it's own where a futus is still part of the females body...

 

[DinohScene]

Well that falls under not legitimately supporting him (people actually seriously support him in the u.s.). But, you do live in europe so it's not like you can vote for him!

I think the real issue is that people want something extraordinary.
Obama became president not because he had good promises but because he's black.
Come on think about it.
Ever since 1776? up until 2008, all the US presidents have been white.
If Obama was white, he probably wouldn't be president.
Remember his campaign "change"?
Well, people voted for change and he became the first black US president.

Same will happen with Trump.
If he wasn't so.. eccentric? people wouldn't pay so much attention to him, thus lowering his chances to become president.

Then again, I know nothing about the statistics nor would I know if it is actually true.
I just base this out of me own observations and they seem rather plausible.

 

[Pikm]

The obvious difference being that a parasite or an infection is an intruder which will harm the host, whereas a foetus is an organism which is supposed to exist within the host as part of the normal reproductive process. I don't think you can conflate the two. Also, a foetus is human - it will develop into a person, so the ethical question of 'should we kill a foetus' is completely different to 'should we kill a virus' or 'should we kill a tapeworm'.

That, however, falls under placing the value of certain lives over others. Fetuses, although it's biologically written that they are meant to be created, still essentially act as parasites, literally as defined; Parasite: an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. So it really depends on a specific person valuing one organism's life over another. Parasites will develop inside a human host in that same sense that a fetus will. Humans of the female sex are only willing to live with fetuses inside them for 9 months because they are looking at the end prospect of birthing biological children. When you remove the willingness to have children, is it really okay to force someone to carry the parasite?

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I think the real issue is that people want something extraordinary.
Obama became president not because he had good promises but because he's black.
Come on think about it.
Ever since 1776? up until 2008, all the US presidents have been white.
If Obama was white, he probably wouldn't be president.
Remember his campaign "change"?
Well, people voted for change and he became the first black US president.

Same will happen with Trump.
If he wasn't so.. eccentric? people wouldn't pay so much attention to him, thus lowering his chances to become president.

Then again, I know nothing about the statistics nor would I know if it is actually true.
I just base this out of me own observations and they seem rather plausible.

Well I suppose if trump does become president he'll be the first orange president of the U.S.

 

[bi388]

I think the real issue is that people want something extraordinary.
Obama became president not because he had good promises but because he's black.
Come on think about it.
Ever since 1776? up until 2008, all the US presidents have been white.
If Obama was white, he probably wouldn't be president.
Remember his campaign "change"?
Well, people voted for change and he became the first black US president.

Same will happen with Trump.
If he wasn't so.. eccentric? people wouldn't pay so much attention to him, thus lowering his chances to become president.

Then again, I know nothing about the statistics nor would I know if it is actually true.
I just base this out of me own observations and they seem rather plausible.

As much as fox news would tell you otherwise Obama did not win the election twice based off of his color

 

[mashers]

i child lives on it's own where a futus is still part of the females body...

It isn't part of the female's body. It is made up of different DNA; it exists parasitically; even the placenta is an outgrowth from the foetus which burrows into the wall of the womb in order to extract nutrients and oxygen and dump waste and CO2. It Is a separate organism which just happens to be inside another organism.

 

[DinohScene]

Well I suppose if trump does become president he'll be the first orange president of the U.S.

I can already see Matt Stone and Trey Parker poking fun at that.

As much as fox news would tell you otherwise Obama did not win the election twice based off of his color

I don't watch nor receive Fox news.
Sorry boy, I'm no 'murican.

 

[Lacius]

You said it is as sentient as a tree. That's what I want evidence for. Also, how about potential? It will be sentient at some point. Do you not see any value in that?

A fetus without brain activity and a tree without brain activity have the same level of sentience. Potential is about as relevant as saying a sperm and egg on opposite ends of a Petri dish has a right to life.

No, I've made the same point you have: "a right to bodily autonomy does not extend to a right to someone else's body". Yet despite that, it's ok to kill an unborn child? That seems like a pretty significant infringement of the rights of someone else's body to me.

A woman has a right to bodily autonomy. It is not an infringement on anyone's rights to say, "You can't use this other person's body," when nobody has a right to another person's body. This is true even if the fetus is sentient, which it is not. If you're going to claim to have made the same point I have, then you have to understand that a right to bodily autonomy means a right to be autonomous.

 

[Pikm]

I love how this turned into a debate about abortion but nobody can come up with a legitimate reason to support trump.

 

[DinohScene]

I love how this turned into a debate about abortion but nobody can come up with a legitimate reason to support trump.

Welcome to Temp.

 

[bi388]

I can already see Matt Stone and Trey Parker poking fun at that.



I don't watch nor receive Fox news.
Sorry boy, I'm no 'murican.

Doesnt change the fact that youre wrong. (Most) people didnt look at him and say "wow hes black, I need to vote for him cause hes black" and if any did it is certainly not a relevant percentage.

 

[Pikm]

I can already see Matt Stone and Trey Parker poking fun at that.



I don't watch nor receive Fox news.
Sorry boy, I'm no 'murican.

You're lucky. Fox News is a corrupted piece of shit full of white people who call everything racism and can't understand why people would want equal rights. *Fox News prepares to ridiculously read out everything I just said on live television because they don't understand the internet

 

[DinohScene]

Doesnt change the fact that youre wrong. (Most) people didnt look at him and say "wow hes black, I need to vote for him cause hes black" and if any did it is certainly not a relevant percentage.

You still don't get it do you?

You're lucky. Fox News is a corrupted piece of shit full of white people who call everything racism and can't understand why people would want equal rights.

Forgot to mention, I barely watch telly and if I do, it's Nat geo and Discovery.

 

[Jack Daniels]

You're lucky. Fox News is a corrupted piece of shit full of white people who call everything racism and can't understand why people would want equal rights.

ahh racist! not only fox is alike that the police is aswell you know

 

[bi388]

You still don't get it do you?

No, enlighten me please

 

[Lacius]

It isn't part of the female's body. It is made up of different DNA; it exists parasitically; even the placenta is an outgrowth from the foetus which burrows into the wall of the womb in order to extract nutrients and oxygen and dump waste and CO2. It Is a separate organism which just happens to be inside another organism.

I agree that a fetus is a separate organism, but it doesn't have a right to be inside another organism. I don't think anything has rights if it lacks brain activity, but even if it had brain activity, a woman has a right to bodily autonomy. A woman must consent to foregoing her bodily autonomy.

 

[Pikm]

ahh racist! not only fox is alike that the police is aswell you know

 

[mashers]

That, however, falls under placing the value of certain lives over others

So does abortion. Abortion says, "adult lives are more important than unborn children". Also, do you really think it's unreasonable to elevate the life of a human child above a single-cell infectious disease or a worm?

. Fetuses, although it's biologically written that they are meant to be created, still essentially act as parasites, literally as defined; Parasite: an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense. So it really depends on a specific person valuing one organism's life over another. Parasites will develop inside a human host in that same sense that a fetus will.

Yes I understand the concept. My point remains though that a foetus is a parasite which is intended to be there. The female body has evolved specifically to be able to contain it and allow it to grow, whereas it will attempt to destroy any other parasites or intruders into it.

Humans of the female sex are only willing to live with fetuses inside them for 9 months because they are looking at the end prospect of birthing biological children. When you remove the willingness to have children, is it really okay to force someone to carry the parasite?

I assume you're talking about rape. I realise it's a very sensitive subject but this is another example of valuing one life over another: "I didn't want the child, I was assaulted and now have to carry a child and birth it, and that is too traumatic. My need is paramount so I will kill the child to avoid further trauma." I'm not saying I know the answer to this situation, I'm just making the point that even in this situation abortion is saying that one person's life is more important than another.

 

[Jack Daniels]

So does abortion. Abortion says, "adult lives are more important than unborn children". Also, do you really think it's unreasonable to elevate the life of a human child above a single-cell infectious disease or a worm?


Yes I understand the concept. My point remains though that a foetus is a parasite which is intended to be there. The female body has evolved specifically to be able to contain it and allow it to grow, whereas it will attempt to destroy any other parasites or intruders into it.


I assume you're talking about rape. I realise it's a very sensitive subject but this is another example of valuing one life over another: "I didn't want the child, I was assaulted and now have to carry a child and birth it, and that is too traumatic. My need is paramount so I will kill the child to avoid further trauma." I'm not saying I know the answer to this situation, I'm just making the point that even in this situation abortion is saying that one person's life is more important than another.

a child lives on it's own where a futus is still part of the females body...

i mean it's not functioning as a living beïng for a reasanable time...
and another thing is the life of an unwanted child...

 

[DinohScene]

No, enlighten me please

Then again, I know nothing about the statistics nor would I know if it is actually true.
I just base this out of me own observations and they seem rather plausible.

Second to that, I cbf with it, as said here.

In all seriousness, I cbf with it.

 

[bi388]

This is a completely serious question about the "potential" argument. So if the potential of a human is whats important, and killing that potential is evil, then isnt anyone who is not currently having a kid evil, because they have the potential to create life but theyre destroying that potential in a way with the exact same result as abortion.