do you think Trump sealed his own fate?

[Viri]

never once protest the organization called CPS? How many families are torn apart every year, a majority of which never end in the parents being convicted of child abuse or the like?

Boy, do I know that feel.

 

[urherenow]

This is deranged. You have to find some way of dehumanizing these people or deluding yourself into believing that they somehow "deserve it" just to avoid admitting how morally repugnant this situation has been. Even Trump recognized how bad it was for him politically, which is why it was the first thing he's flipped so fast on.

You just don't understand how the system works. The adults are getting arrested, and they MUST be arrested. Children do not get arrested. But how do you deal with that? There is no room, money, or workers, to place them in what you would consider a proper foster care. We don't simply "shoo" them back across the border with no adult protection/supervision. In many cases, the adults are tried, documented, and sent back across the border with the children. Sometimes it takes a couple of days. Do you have any clue how many people try this every single day? Bah. Why do I bother? I could type a whole book on this, and you wouldn't understand. But you'll continue to insist that this wasn't being done under Obama, and it's all Trump's fault.

 

[Viri]

also, how is trumps lame ass equivalent to hitler? where is the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of deaths from genocide at? c'mon, get real...

I look forward to when Trump makes land claims on Baja California and New Brunswick!

You Canucks will give us the bird sanctuary and light house!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machias_Seal_Island

 

[TotalInsanity4]

View attachment 132750
You're clueless. Just like every other liberal, you like to cherry pick your information. The first few "internment camp" memes posted by you idiots around Twitter and Facebook were pics from 2014. IF Obama had them?

Trump made a POLICY to enforce a law. Who made the law? Oh, that's right, the current LAW as written was under Bill Clinton. You want to be disgusted, be disgusted with the assholes who are bringing the children in the hopes that they won't get arrested. In a large number of cases, there is no blood relation whatsoever. Many of those kids are being used as shields, mules, and some are victims of human trafficking. The whole breastfeeding baby torn from the mother is simply an outright LIE. Says who? The people that actually work there. But the interviewer (Gail something...) just cut the man off when his reply didn't fit her agenda.

I guess I'm curious about why YOU guys weren't furious about stuff like that happening under Obama, since Republican talk show hosts always looked for any kind of dirt on Obama whatsoever they could find, and it took until now for this to reach the public eye.

I'll concede that he was not the perfect President and did some rather questionable things, but you also need to understand that he didn't enforce a zero-tolerance policy in which non-violent migrants- even asylum seekers- were locked up, separated from their children, and deported

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

You just don't understand how the system works. The adults are getting arrested, and they MUST be arrested.

I'd say it's you that doesn't understand how the system works, because no, they don't. A first-time undocumented border crossing is legally a misdemeanor, not a felony. That's like creating a "zero-tolerance" policy where you lock up people who drive above the speed limits and loiter in front of private property, and then take their kids away and house them in a warehouse with no way for the person to easily re-connect with them if they're released

 

[Viri]

I guess I'm curious about why YOU guys weren't furious about stuff like that happening under Obama, since Republican talk show hosts always looked for any kind of dirt on Obama whatsoever they could find, and it took until now for this to reach the public eye.

I actually did. I hated how the GOP treated Obama. I hated how the GOP would deny anything and always went against him, just because he wanted something. Would deny progress, just to spite him.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I actually did. I hated how the GOP treated Obama. I hated how the GOP would deny anything and always went against him, just because he wanted something. Would deny progress, just to spite him.

You "actually did" what?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but maybe we're misunderstanding each other lol

 

[Viri]

You "actually did" what?

I think you misunderstood what I was saying, but maybe we're misunderstanding each other lol

I guess I'm curious about why YOU guys weren't furious about stuff like that happening under Obama

I was furious when that stuff happened under Obama.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I was furious when that stuff happened under Obama.

Oh, I see. I was referring to the images of children in thermal blankets from 2014, though

 

[JiveTheTurkey]

The parallel between Trump and Hitler is even closer now. These detention centers are a clear human rights violation.

I agree. Playstations at the centers are unacceptable. They should be giving them Switches and a couple dozen of 3ds. Hot meals are way to similar to what they served at Auschwitz, it is disgusting.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I agree. Playstations at the centers are unacceptable. They should be giving them Switches and a couple dozen of 3ds. Hot meals are way to similar to what they served at Auschwitz, it is disgusting.

It might surprise you to learn that Auschwitz actually had a swimming pool, and that was a particular positive talking point of how well the Nazis were treating their prisoners (despite the fact that obviously none of the prisoners were allowed to use it, it was strictly for SS officers)

Saying that there are luxuries available in what is effectively a prison does not take away from the fact that it is still, at its core, a prison. Optics are a bitch and can be deceiving, in any time period

 

[Xzi]

You just don't understand how the system works. The adults are getting arrested, and they MUST be arrested. Children do not get arrested.

Clearly you don't understand how the system is working right now. The adults get fast-tracked to deportation while the children are sent to detention centers to be used for political leverage. ICE sucks at record keeping so odds are the majority of children separated from their families and locked up are never going to see their parents again. That's why it's moronic to separate families and why Obama and GWB didn't have the same policy, the logistics alone are a nightmare.

The argument that Obama had the same policy is absurd, he never had to build multiple new detention centers to house immigrant children for an undetermined amount of time. Only Trump gets to claim credit for the brand new internment camps.

Trump rushed into this with no plan. Just like he does with everything. That's why it's turned into another dumpster fire. That's also why you don't elect reality TV stars to do the work of governance. Should be common sense, but here we are. At least there's a strong chance of one or more of Trump's offspring going to jail for crimes relating to the Mueller investigation, so likely some poetic justice to look forward to.

 

[brickmii82]

I don't see how this action could be morally defensible in any way. Even hardline Republicans are against this enforcement due to the brash nature of it's execution. This(illegal border crossing) is a misdemeanor conviction. It runs along the same lines as disorderly conduct according to penalty guidelines. The GOP could take a hit on this as a whole throughout mid-terms and beyond as a result of this situation.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...-separation-policy-border-trump-20180618.html

Even Bill O'Reilly is condemning this......

 

[urherenow]

@Xzi, jesus, you are stupid. Reagan was a movie star, and he is a revered president by many.
Arnold Schwarzenegger was a movie star, and I assert that he was one of the BEST governors that California has ever seen. Just because the news didn't cover what was going on at the borders during Obama's administration, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Do I have to fish out every meme used against Trump that used pics from OBAMA'S era again? Nevermind. I'm blocking you. You're a fucking idiot.

 

[TotalInsanity4]

@Xzi, jesus, you are stupid. Reagan was a movie star, and he is a revered president by many.
Arnold Schwarzenegger was a movie star, and I assert that he was one of the BEST governors that California has ever seen. Just because the news didn't cover what was going on at the borders during Obama's administration, doesn't mean it wasn't happening. Do I have to fish out every meme used against Trump that used pics from OBAMA'S era again? Nevermind. I'm blocking you. You're a fucking idiot.

It could be argued actually that Reagan is single-handedly responsible for the major disparity between the wealthy and lower class due to the shrinking middle class right now, so I guess I don't know if I'd say THAT.

And again, you BOTH are correct about Obama's border policy; yes, people were being detained, and many were in inhumane conditions (especially due to the fact that immigration courts are allowed to get away with a lot of shit that would be illegal in criminal courts), but @Xzi is also correct that at the very least, there was no policy that intentionally split families up to use children as leverage to get parents to falsly plead guilty for asylum fraud as the only chance of seeing them again. And I will once again assert that there's no good reason that Obama era stuff is only NOW coming to light, in spite of effectively an 8-year smear campaign that SHOULD have gladly taken any opportunity to use something like this against him. The only conclusion I can come to is that the people running said campaigns took no issue with it then, and are only bringing it up now to justify something that is still objectively worse. Which, in my mind, is absolute deplorable and disgusting

Edit: I also like how you can tell you had to look up how to spell "Schwarzenegger" and had to copy-paste his name in because the font size changed. Not necessarily a good or bad thing, but I found it amusing lol

 

[Xzi]

@Xzi, jesus, you are stupid. Reagan was a movie star, and he is a revered president by many.
Arnold Schwarzenegger was a movie star, and I assert that he was one of the BEST governors that California has ever seen.

Reagan caused a lot of problems that persist in the US to this day, lack of proper mental health treatment being a big one. Not to mention he had prior political experience before running for president. Schwarzenegger I have no real comment on because I've never lived in CA, but the general consensus from others seems mixed at best. Also, reality TV is not the same as movies. People on reality TV tend to be a lot dumber, to the point where they wouldn't even be able to properly act in movies.

Nevermind. I'm blocking you. You're a fucking idiot.

Wow, blocked because you can't handle some criticism of Trump. The right wing truly are snowflakes now.

Love the ad hominems sprinkled throughout your posts too, they really drive home the point that you're out of valid arguments.

 

[urherenow]

Never claimed to be good at spelling . If people were being honest, I'd bet that hundreds of people in this forum alone would admit to having difficulty spelling that name.

And, your "only conclusion" just proves how closed minded you are. The fact is that the news media didn't blast those pictures everywhere in a smear campaign against Obama. If it isn't broadcasted that much, or in that light, then people don't know about it to even begin to complain about it. The main issue I have with this whole thing, is that it's complete hypocrisy! And while you may find the whole situation "deplorable", here is the cold, hard FACT: Our Laws and our constitution apply to U.S. Citizens. These illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and they have no rights. Yet they are being treated better than our own homeless. There simply isn't the resources to put them all up in a Holiday Inn Express

My wife is not a citizen. I went through the lengthy process of getting her Immigrant VISA. I did it proper. The same way these people should have. So, no. I have no sympathy for them, and I am indeed 100% ok with the situation. I am currently living (until December when I return to Japan) less than 5 minutes from the border. I see the numbers that have to be dealt with, and I have half of a clue what resources are available to deal with it. If they didn't sneak their children in illegally (and again, MOST are not even their children), NONE of this would ever happen. The entirety of liberals acting like Trump is the sole cause and he is the only one that has ever been responsible for this, is what I find deplorable. If Republicans end up with a super-majority after the mid-terms, then prepare to sit back and watch ACTUAL change and reform to happen. If not... then not much is going to change.

Speaking of which... not only do I not blame Trump for this, I don't actually blame Obama or Clinton either. I blame CONGRESS. I'm only here because the focus is and has been solely on Trump. And it's bullshit.

EDIT: And by the way, I've said the same thing during Obama's presidency. There are many things he tried to do, that he couldn't, because he couldn't get congress to work together and get things done. Our system is purposely set up so that it is technically IMPOSSIBLE to be in a dictator-like situation. There is NOTHING that the POTUS can do against the will of a united congress. In the same light, there is not much a POTUS can do WITHOUT at least a super-majority of congress to back him up.

 

[Xzi]

Our Laws and our constitution apply to U.S. Citizens. These illegal immigrants are breaking the law, and they have no rights. Yet they are being treated better than our own homeless. There simply isn't the resources to put them all up in a Holiday Inn Express

This is completely missing the point. If the process of enforcing deportation is efficient, there's no need for long-term detention facilities to be built in the first place. It's bad enough without forcing taxpayers to foot the bill on something the majority don't agree with.

If Republicans end up with a super-majority after the mid-terms, then prepare to sit back and watch ACTUAL change and reform to happen. If not... then not much is going to change.

Delusional. Republicans will have had complete control for two years at the point of mid-terms. They've gotten next to nothing accomplished other than corporate welfare handouts. That's not change or reform, just more of the same oligarchical bullshit.

Speaking of which... not only do I not blame Trump for this, I don't actually blame Obama or Clinton either. I blame CONGRESS. I'm only here because the focus is and has been solely on Trump. And it's bullshit.

You blame Congress. Which has been a majority GOP every time it blocked immigration reform. Now Trump is at the top of the GOP, and he doesn't bare any responsibility for the fact that this is happening on his watch? That's bullshit. The GOP (Trump included) can only pass the buck around so much before admitting they simply have no ideas on how to properly govern. It's all regulatory capture and tearing down essential public services.

EDIT: And by the way, I've said the same thing during Obama's presidency. There are many things he tried to do, that he couldn't, because he couldn't get congress to work together and get things done. Our system is purposely set up so that it is technically IMPOSSIBLE to be in a dictator-like situation. There is NOTHING that the POTUS can do against the will of a united congress. In the same light, there is not much a POTUS can do WITHOUT at least a super-majority of congress to back him up.

Trump signed a piece of paper and family separations stopped. Even if only temporarily. There are a lot of steps his administration could take toward reform, but nobody in his administration has any insight on how to go about it. They'd just fuck everything up and have Trump's supporters play the apologists for him again.

Yes I'm aware he can't see my reply, wanted to counter these points anyway.

 

[SirNapkin1334]

Nah, the asshole sealed the fates of all the people who won’t be moving out of this godforsaken country.

 

[Hanafuda]

Nah, the asshole sealed the fates of all the people who won’t be moving out of this godforsaken country.

I'm curious .. have you ever lived for an extended period (at least a year) in any other country, and if you did so were you gainfully employed there and supporting yourself, or were you just a partying student or someone's dependent? I'm just asking because it seems a lot of Americans have strong opinions about their own country without any basis of comparison to how people live, think, and act elsewhere.

immigration reform

What does "immigration reform" entail to you, Xzi? What reforms would be desirable? What would you concede in order to get those reforms?

 

[SirNapkin1334]

I'm curious .. have you ever lived for an extended period (at least a year) in any other country, and if you did so were you gainfully employed there and supporting yourself, or were you just a partying student or someone's dependent? I'm just asking because it seems a lot of Americans have strong opinions about their own country without any basis of comparison to how people live, think, and act elsewhere.




What does "immigration reform" entail to you, Xzi? What reforms would be desirable? What would you concede in order to get those reforms?

No. I went to Germany for a week to meet family though.