Far Right Presidential Candidate Wins in Argentina

[sarkwalvein]

I imagine there were already separate laws against looting/mugging, no? If a protest is easily ignored, there's no point in staging it in the first place. I very much doubt it's a coincidence that this change is being made now, when the currency has been devalued by 50% and food prices are skyrocketing. It's not a good look if he's trying to convince the rest of the world he isn't far right, but I doubt he cares about his image now that he's in power.

The currency value in Argentina is a lie.

You cannot exchange money at the official rate. You are not allowed to go to the bank and exchange your money for say 400usd at the official rate, there are many different restrictions and different exchange values. The real rate is the black market rate, it is the way people end up buying it, it has been like this for a long time.

And also if you happen to use a credit card, there are plenty of distortions, like the PAIS tax, you end up paying a value similar to the black market value. And this as far as I know still has not changed even today.

This devaluation is just coming clear with something that looks like the real value... but it is still a lie.

The inflation is very real in the other hand. And the big unavoidable problem.

Post automatically merged: Dec 16, 2023

Don't waste your time, it's pretty clear now that he's an ex-pat who thinks this country is shit because of lefties and anyone who doesn't think like he does. I know his kind. It's often the very privileged people who don't have to worry about food, or losing their jobs or their rights who are "against" protests. They think they're the only ones with the right to protest (more about this at the end of the comment).

We have very clear laws about the right to protest, no matter where you do it. This right often conflicts with the right to circulation (that's what he means with his comment). Have there been protests that cut the streets? Yeah, most of them because guess what? That's what's needed to get the point across, otherwise people just won't care. You know who also protested by cutting circulation? Patricia Bullrich, the person who now criminalized protests, want proof? I'll give you some.

1) This is Milei, our current president who just criminalized the right to protest in the streets. He's protesting in the streets while funnily enough Patricia Bullrich was also the Ministry of Security.
https://x.com/MauroFdz/status/1735511893421305885
2) December of 2017, Patricia Bullrich (who just criminalized protests) is promoting the repression of retired old people who were against a reform of the retirement system.
https://x.com/MDKporsiempre/status/1735248940818116779
3) Iñaki Gutierrez, a part of this new government who is also in favour of criminalizing protests in the streets, seen in protesting in the streets during the pandemic (against lockdown). This protest made a spike in COVID cases.
https://x.com/lauligresti/status/1734969863410418083
4) This is the day Milei (current president who just criminalized protests in the streets) and Bullrich (current ministry of security who just criminalized protests in the streets) met. They were protesting in the streets while also cutting circulation.
https://x.com/pripppri/status/1735457291548205199
5) This is Espert, member of the deputy chamber. Seen protesting in the streets against lockdown, along with Milei.
https://x.com/sinurrieta/status/1735491827849904536
6) You know what Espert tweeted yesterday to some members of the left coalition? That if they are to protest in the streets they'll either go to jail or get shot (as in, killed with real bullets).
https://x.com/elcancillercom/status/1735454720259420450
7) This is Bullrich, again protesting in the streets and cutting circulation. Nobody repressed them, because protesting is our right. Unless they're in power, of course.
https://x.com/Pampa139/status/1735444814336790547
8) Another video of Milei and Bullrich the day they met while protesting and cutting circulation.
https://x.com/pripppri/status/1735457291548205199

So yeah, this dude is full of shit and is yet another proof of how rights and laws are only for some. When they protested and cut circulation nobody did anything, because that's how we roll. Only when they get in power is when protests end up being more violent, you know why? Ding ding ding, because of repression.
I wonder why less than a week after getting into power do they criminalize protesting in the streets... could it be because they know they're fucking us all? I wonder.

Thanks for being a real one, Xzi.

Why do you think you know everybody and "their type"? Why do you stereotype and in which moral pillar do you stand to think you are above others? How is this not just dialectics for discrimination on your part, or as you yourself say with some hypocrisy:

this country is shit because of lefties and anyone who doesn't think like he does

You yourself close into a stubborn position of "you are above, you know, and the country would be destroyed by anyone who thinks different than you do"... how can't you spot your own contradiction?

PS: I have been saying all along this thread,

Note/disclaimer: I am not convinced that Milei would be a good president for Argentina, but I don't consider him far right, I consider him an incompetent populist/demagogue (like most previous presidents) that will not be able to bring Argentina's economy back into form... Time will say.

I don't really believe in him, I don't think he is consistent or trustworthy, I think he is just another populistic clown, but I am stating what is the reality of Argentina, and what is the twisted narrative I see you pulling out. Nobody "rolls like that" with blocking traffic, not then, not now. This has been a discussion topic since ages ago.

And tbh Milei is no better, but he is not "criminalizing protests", that is just not true. And stop lying that everybody is happy and nice with the never ending blockades of roads, that is not how we roll, that is BS.

You repeat so many times the false "criminalized protests" in your narrative above that I believe you hope to make everybody think it's true just by exhaustion and repetition.

PS: If you had read somewhere above in the thread you would've noticed I am not somebody that thinks the "country is shit because of lefties" as you put it; the country is shit because of populist demagogy and corruption. It has nothing to do with the left or the right.

PS2: But I agree reading these links above that Espert is indefensible, what a piece of shit would say "Carcel o bala"...
Damn... I admit I was not aware the kind of politician Espert was, what the fuck.

 

[tabzer]

I imagine there were already separate laws against looting/mugging, no? If a protest is easily ignored, there's no point in staging it in the first place. I very much doubt it's a coincidence that this change is being made now, when the currency has been devalued by 50% and food prices are skyrocketing. It's not a good look if he's trying to convince the rest of the world he isn't far right, but I doubt he cares about his image now that he's in power.

Nice backpedal. When are you going to start taking responsibility for your blatant propaganda?

Milei just criminalized all protest and public demonstrations.

You should own this.

If a protest is easily ignored, there's no point in staging it in the first place.

What does that mean? Blocking emergency responders from saving lives, impeding on others' ability to travel? Generally holding the well-being of civilians ransom? Whatever it takes to get noticed?

 

[KingVamp]

How does the "Nordic model" fit into this? Just curious since it doesn't strike me as an obvious comparison.

Well, one wants to get their government to actually help people with services, while the other wants to just simply throw out most, if not all, the government.

 

[Foxi4]

I imagine there were already separate laws against looting/mugging, no?

There are separate laws about looting and mugging in America too, and yet here we are.

If a protest is easily ignored, there's no point in staging it in the first place.

If you block a main thoroughfare, the government should dispatch rocket-propelled bulldozers to flatten you into the asphalt. Freedom of movement is a human right, people have a right to travel, false imprisonment is a crime. Since the state does not allow people to remove these obstacles from public roads, it is obligated to do so on their behalf.

 

[tabzer]

Public reminders shouldn't be conflated with "new laws" and if the new law about protesting is only about not doing it in the middle of traffic, it seems stupid that there needs to be a law to spell it out.

I cannot comprehend the grasp @Xzi is reaching for now. Only mobs can practice authoritarianism?

 

[Foxi4]

Well, one wants to get their government to actually help people with services, while the other wants to just simply throw out most, if not all, the government.

America grew to prominence and power before Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid or even most regular state services people take for granted nowadays. The U.S. didn’t have an organised, publicly-funded full-time police force until the mid-19th century, up to that point the country mostly relied on civilian volunteers. There were no state-funded fire departments until around the time of the Civil War, they were ran privately and competed to get to fires first in order to get kickbacks from insurance companies. That’s not to say that this approach is necessarily better or even applicable in the modern age, but it kind of upends your thesis.

 

[Xzi]

There are separate laws about looting and mugging in America too, and yet here we are.

"And here we are?" Meaning what, exactly? That looters and muggers aren't being prosecuted? Ridiculous premise.

If you block a main thoroughfare, the government should dispatch rocket-propelled bulldozers to flatten you into the asphalt. Freedom of movement is a human right, people have a right to travel, false imprisonment is a crime. Since the state does not allow people to remove these obstacles from public roads, it is obligated to do so on their behalf.

That's how you start justifying extrajudicial executions for the most minor offenses, by channeling irrational anger at the smallest of inconveniences. Moving to silence dissent is always top priority for authoritarian governments.

 

[Foxi4]

"And here we are?" Meaning what, exactly? That looters and muggers aren't being prosecuted? Ridiculous premise.

Nothing ridiculous about it. We’ve all seen the roving swarms of looters. How many do you think get caught per incident? 1? 2? Not to mention things like Proposition 47 which reclassified non-violent theft of items under $950 as a misdemeanour which only emboldened thieves.

That's how you start justifying extrajudicial executions for the most minor offenses, by channeling irrational anger at the smallest of inconveniences. Moving to silence dissent is always top priority for authoritarian governments.

Start?

You can have your protest anywhere, for instance on the pavement. I can’t drive on the pavement, I can only travel on roads. If you want to petition the government for redress of grievances, as is your right, go right ahead and inconvenience the government. Go protest inside of city hall. Hell, go protest in front of the mayor’s house - I don’t care, that’s a government agent, knock yourself out. If you’re inconveniencing *me* and your exercise of your right to protest interferes with *my* right to move from point A to point B unmolested and unimpeded, expect me to have a big problem with that. If things go further and you box people in, preventing them from both moving towards their destination *and* leaving safely, you’re already a criminal and Godspeed to them if they drive straight through. You can’t randomly imprison people to make a point like a terrorist. Get off the road. Your rights are not more important than anybody else’s and other people have a right to defend their rights, especially the ones you’re actively infringing upon by blocking a road and preventing them from travelling in peace.

 

[tabzer]

Check out this Right-wing dictatorship.



Oh. That's @Dark_Ansem's home.

 

[Xzi]

You can’t randomly imprison people to make a point like a terrorist.

Correct, and I'd expect you to hold Milei to the same standard in the coming years.

Get off the road. Your rights are not more important than anybody else’s and other people have a right to defend their rights, especially the ones you’re actively infringing upon by blocking a road and preventing them from travelling in peace.

I'll grant you there are differences between a full blockade and a slowdown, just as there are differences between main thoroughfares and off-roads. Even in the worst-case scenario, however, it doesn't justify murder.

 

[tabzer]

Lol blocking traffic makes you look like the asshole and hurts your cause. Your pointless clutch does similar.

I'm of mind that "Just Stop Oil!" was intentionally funded to support the oil industry.

If you are smart enough to be involved in such protests, you might as well protest the existence of roads and vehicles.

 

[Foxi4]

Correct, and I'd expect you to hold Milei to the same standard in the coming years.

I'll grant you there are differences between a full blockade and a slowdown, just as there are differences between main thoroughfares and off-roads. Even in the worst-case scenario, however, it doesn't justify murder.

Self-defense is not murder, but you’re correct in saying that circumstances matter.

 

[Dark_Ansem]

for all the "libertarian is not far right dictator, that's an european misconception!"

https://www.ft.com/content/ed108b24-c2b8-4f0b-8d12-6d17c0707af7

stealing the freedom of others as soon as granted power

 

[Foxi4]

for all the "libertarian is not far right dictator, that's an european misconception!"

https://www.ft.com/content/ed108b24-c2b8-4f0b-8d12-6d17c0707af7

stealing the freedom of others as soon as granted power

We’re already discussing that. You don’t have the freedom to block roads.

 

[RetroGen]

We’re already discussing that. You don’t have the freedom to block roads.

So you also condemned the Convoy protest in Ottawa and think they deserve harsh punishment?

 

[Dark_Ansem]

So you also condemned the Convoy protest in Ottawa and think they deserve harsh punishment?

Nope these are heroes of the novax free "thinkers" community

You don’t have the freedom to block roads.

And here I thought libertarians were for absolute freedom. Only theirs I see.

 

[tabzer]

Nope these are heroes of the novax free "thinkers" community


And here I thought libertarians were for absolute freedom. Only theirs I see.

Let's do some rephrasing.

You don't have the freedom to block freedom, unless you are in a country that allows it. It appears you do not.

It also seems like you are attempting to point out hypocrisy. Why don't you source it instead of expecting us to take your word for it. I don't remember anyone who is talking to have glorified any sort of blockade. Maybe you do. Maybe you are talking out of your arse?

From where I am sitting, it looks like @Foxi4 supports your freedom to travel unimpeded.

 

[sarkwalvein]

So you also condemned the Convoy protest in Ottawa and think they deserve harsh punishment?

The law should be equal for everybody.

 

[Foxi4]

Let's do some rephrasing.

You don't have the freedom to block freedom, unless you are in a country that allows it. It appears you do not.

From where I am sitting, it looks like @Foxi4 supports your freedom to travel unimpeded.

Looks like I don’t even need to answer the @Dark_Ansem Brain Buster, the (obvious) answer was already provided.

Before we get any further, I would also like to point out that liberty also doesn’t imply:

1. Freedom to steal
2. Freedom to kill
3. Freedom to burglarise (which is legally distinct from just theft as it entails breaking and entering)
4. Freedom to steal a bear’s porridge
5. Freedom to sleep in a bear’s bed without them knowing

This list is incomplete, you can help by expanding it.

So you also condemned the Convoy protest in Ottawa and think they deserve harsh punishment?

Define harsh. It’s a traffic violation, to be sure. They shouldn’t disrupt the lives of ordinary citizens. With that being said, it was exceedingly funny, so I can exercise jury nullification. If it affected me I’d probably want everyone involved to be shot directly into the sun, but it didn’t affect me at all. You should ask the citizens of Ottawa since they’re the ones who were affected, people are judged by a jury of their peers, and I’m not their peer.

 

[tabzer]

Agh. Feel free to delete this. Trying to comprehend some of these lines of thinking make me stupider than I already am.