Hardware Hacking Homebrew Feedback Misc Is a Nintendo Switch NVMe mod possible?

[Dominator211]

Hello all! I guess you could consider this a part 2 of my theoretical questions about the Nintendo Switch. Some of you viewing this may remember my last thread by the title of “is a UFS Mod possible on the Nintendo Switch?” The goal of this was to try and figure out if the internal storage could be pushed past the 256GB limit that eMMC is limited to. After some great discussion the conclusion was made that because UFS is so different from eMMC that an upgrade would not be possible. I was directed to make another thread for this question.

However thanks to @evil_santa (great name BTW) through Ctcaer I learned that the Switch has a unused PCIe x4 slot. This in theory could mean that the switch could have a NVMe drive in it. If one person or a group of people put in the work to do it. The goal of this thread is to discuss what challenges and or other information may be needed for this to happen. If it is even possible.

From here on out I will be using all of my current technical knowledge to try and discuss this question. I’m going to be upfront and say I do not know everything there is to know about the switch l and I am not a huge software guy so if I miss speak or say something incorrect I am sorry and don’t mean it in a arrogant or stupid way.

So first what comes to my mind is finding this PCIe x4 connection. Obviously the switch doesn’t have a M.2 connector on it so this would be harder to find then with just a gloss over. I am not a expert on board design but I am going to go out in a limb and say that this connection or the base(s) for it anyway are close if not on the Tegra X1 itself. Obviously if things are at the molecular/silicon level then this whole thing goes out the window.

For arguments sake let’s assume that’s not the case. The next thing would be trying to get said connector into a useable M.2 slot and make sure that slot works electrically speaking. This would definitely require some soldering on someone’s part. Difficult but not impossible. (At least to my knowledge) I should also add that the required voltages for a SSD may not be able to be supplied by the Switch’s internal battery this could put the kaibosh on this whole idea too.

The next order of business would be to figure out the fitment into the Switch’s tight space. Ideally for the largest capacity a NVMe 2280 SSD would be the best but the switch is super small and a 2230 would be more likely to fit. This is also assuming no modifications would need to be done to the chassis or exterior of the switch.

Alright, we’re almost there… next big hurdle would be the software side if things. Obviously there would need to be loads of adjustments done in order for a NVMe drive to even be read by the switch. This is the area I know the least about some discussion on this would be very appreciated.

Some smaller “notes” that come to mind to me are Battery Drain and Heat. It remains to be seen how much of a difference in battery life adding a SSD would be but I’m assuming it’s going to make it slightly worse. Secondly the SSD will generate heat and this would need to be dissipated properly. Again this remains to be seen how this can be mitigated. Ford idea that comes to mind is thermal pads/paste depending on where it is in the system.

Alright, Phew. That’s it for me the thread is open now, let me know if I missed anything. Please do chime in if you know something that can be helpful or have a question. That’s the ultimate goal of this is to have a open discussion and maybe learn a thing or two!

Thanks!

-D

 

[godreborn]

my guess is that if it's possible it would be pointless. for example, if you put ps4 games on the nvme of the ps5, they do not boot any faster. they're not written with that speed in mind.

 

[Dominator211]

my guess is that if it's possible it would be pointless. for example, if you put ps4 games on the nvme of the ps5, they do not boot any faster. they're not written with that speed in mind.

Phew I’m sorry, that thread took me an hour to write. I should’ve specified but this was more for capacity rather then speed. I see your argument for the most part it is correct. A few seconds faster if anything wouldn’t be noticeable unless you timed it.

 

[godreborn]

Phew I’m sorry, that thread took me an hour to write. I should’ve specified but this was more for capacity rather then speed. I see your argument for the most part it is correct. A few seconds faster if anything wouldn’t be noticeable unless you timed it.

I must admit that I didn't even read your op, just the title, and I assumed that's the reason you wanted to do this.

 

[Dominator211]

I must admit that I didn't even read your op, just the title, and I assumed that's the reason you wanted to do this.

Look at least your honest, I’m ok with that haha. I know it’s a lot to read I just went into detail. Lord I hope it’s not all in vain

 

[hippy dave]

I don't know anything about this unused PCIe, but I'd guess that what we're talking about is the SoC having the capability, but there being no hardware existing to expose it on the Switch motherboard. Hardware people have studied the motherboard pretty thoroughly, and I think an unused interface like that would have got a mention.

If you're talking about doing hardware and software mods to the Switch tho, and the goal is storage capacity rather than the highest possible transfer speed, then why not go USB 3? You could easily connect a device internally to the USB bus, the groundwork exists for USB 3 speeds, and we've already seen software mods to use USB storage, tho I'd say they're likely to become easier and more integrated into the operating system once Atmosphere finally reimplements the FS module.

 

[Dominator211]

I don't know anything about this unused PCIe, but I'd guess that what we're talking about is the SoC having the capability, but there being no hardware existing to expose it on the Switch motherboard. Hardware people have studied the motherboard pretty thoroughly, and I think an unused interface like that would have got a mention.

If you're talking about doing hardware and software mods to the Switch tho, and the goal is storage capacity rather than the highest possible transfer speed, then why not go USB 3? You could easily connect a device internally to the USB bus, the groundwork exists for USB 3 speeds, and we've already seen software mods to use USB storage, tho I'd say they're likely to become easier and more integrated into the operating system once Atmosphere finally reimplements the FS module.

This is the screenshot I am referring to. Unless this is a fake screenshot, the capability lies within the chip itself.


Unless CTCaer miss spoke Herr and meant USB 3 instead if NVMe, although it sounds specific enough in the screenshot. Again this could have been taken out of context I'm not 100% sure

 

[binkinator]

This is the screenshot I am referring to. Unless this is a fake screenshot, the capability lies within the chip itself

Might want to go on Discord and ask CTCaer directly for clarification.

 

[Dominator211]

Might want to go on Discord and ask CTCaer directly for clarification.

Would that be on the GBATemp Discord?

 

[binkinator]

Would that be on the GBATemp Discord?

No sir. Try RetroNX or Switchroot

 

[Dominator211]

No sir. Try RetroNX or Switchroot

Alright thank you for the clarification. Probably should've did that first. Oh well.

 

[evil_santa]

I'll comment further on this tonight, but ctcer commented again recently.

 

[hippy dave]

So yeah it's just gonna be pins from the SoC, you'd have to build the hardware up from there.

 

[gangan]

Even if it were possible. Why would you do it? 1TB micro SD cards are cheap enough. Doesn't seem like it'd be worth the hassle to hack in an NVME drive just to do it.

 

[Dominator211]

Even if it were possible. Why would you do it? 1TB micro SD cards are cheap enough. Doesn't seem like it'd be worth the hassle to hack in an NVME drive just to do it.

In the words if JFK we choose to do these things not because they are easy but because that are haaard" I think along with some people in this thread are curious what hard limits there are with the switch.

I'll comment further on this tonight, but ctcer commented again recently.
View attachment 306619

I am also currently in touch with him as well. As well as my friend from Scotland. He tells me that the hardest part would be masking the wires underneath the chip itself. When I told him that it was an X1, He said that they have a lot of space between the pads, and long story short it makes the hardest part of this whole process so far a lot easier.

 

[esmith13]

While it would be cool if we could do this I don't see why anyone would bother. Back when I used SXOS and could run games directly from USB, I had two setups that suited me very well that didn't involve opening up my switch at all. One was a satisfye grip with a M.2 2280 drive inside it on a bare M.2 to USB3 PCB that had a 2" cord come out and plug into the switch's USB-C port. The other was another bare PCB M.2 2280 to USB3 adapter and a USB-C to USB-A 180-degree adapter which basically let the M.2 adapter PCB rest flush against the back of the switch. Either one of these could also be plugged into the dock for use on the TV as well.

IMHO what we really need is the software to utilize secondary storage to install on & play games from in Atmosphere.
The hardware mod you want would be nice, but there is no reason the software couldn't and shouldn't come first for USB so the average end user could enjoy it and then have it also be compatible with a hardware mod for "pro level" use as well.

 

[gangan]

In the words if JFK we choose to do these things not because they are easy but because that are haaard" I think along with some people in this thread are curious what hard limits there are with the switch.


I am also currently in touch with him as well. As well as my friend from Scotland. He tells me that the hardest part would be masking the wires underneath the chip itself. When I told him that it was an X1, He said that they have a lot of space between the pads and it's and long story short it makes the hardest part of this whole process so far a lot easier.

I mean that makes sense when you’re trying to solve a problem or build morale for a country. But there isn’t a problem to solve in this situation.

The switch already uses freely available cheap expandable storage options.

I get that it’d be neat, from a tinkering perspective; but I can’t see anyone spending countless hours of their time on something like this when it offers no real benefit over just using micro SD card storage. Especially when they could dedicate that time solving problems that do not currently have a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Dominator211]

While it would be cool if we could do this I don't see why anyone would bother. Back when I used SXOS and could run games directly from USB, I had two setups that suited me very well that didn't involve opening up my switch at all. One was a satisfye grip with a M.2 2280 drive inside it on a bare M.2 to USB3 PCB that had a 2" cord come out and plug into the switch's USB-C port. The other was another bare PCB M.2 2280 to USB3 adapter and a USB-C to USB-A 180-degree adapter which basically let the M.2 adapter PCB rest flush against the back of the switch. Either one of these could also be plugged into the dock for use on the TV as well.

IMHO what we really need is the software to utilize secondary storage to install on & play games from in Atmosphere.
The hardware mod you want would be nice, but there is no reason the software couldn't and shouldn't come first for USB so the average end user could enjoy it and then have it also be compatible with a hardware mod for "pro level" use as well.

I have also been saying this for quite some time now, that last one with a bare 2280 on the back does sound nice I would also be open to Somehow moving Horizon to read from external storage like that. I would also assume the speeds would be pretty good as well. However I feel that it wouldn't work for everyone that plays their switches in handled or tabletop mode. I am quite a mix myself and while I like this idea. An extra (Pretty large at that) thing hanging of my Switch would be an eyesore, plus then you are opening up damaging the SSD, adapter or the Switch itself. I am not saying that my idea doesn't have significant risk to it but I feel it would be more "Accident Proof" so to speak. I hope that didn't come off as me knocking your idea saying it was bad.

 

[Dominator211]

I mean that makes sense when you’re trying to solve a problem or build morale for a country. But there isn’t a problem to solve in this situation.

The switch already uses freely available cheap expandable storage options.

I get that it’d be neat, from a tinkering perspective; but I can’t see anyone spending countless hours of their time on something like this when it offers no real benefit over just using micro SD card storage. Especially when they could dedicate that time solving problems that do not currently have a solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Well, my reply was an attempt at Humor, while I understand your viewpoint and believe it to be perfectly valid, I have always been more of a "Do it because you can, not because it's practical" sort of person. Even if nothing comes from this, we all lost a little bit of time in our lives, but we learned something and this thread will be here for anyone else that may be curious about this in the future.

 

[esmith13]

...I am quite a mix myself and while I like this idea. An extra (Pretty large at that) thing hanging of my Switch would be an eyesore...

I don't take it as a knock at all and I really hope both come true one day...
That said, I don't think this would count as "pretty large" tho. Sorry I don't have my switch with me to show it plugged in...
Not to mention it could be done with a 2230 or other size M.2 as well. Most of the bare PCB style M.2 USB adapters are perforated to break-away at the length of the drive you use.