Joe Biden Wins - Becomes 46th president of the United States

[tabzer]

The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it. It looked like an assault on independent people.

 

[RandomUser]

The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it. It looked like an assault on independent people.

Yes, perhaps it did, however I think it was intended to protect them when the needs for doctors or emergency is needed so they supposedly don't go bankrupt. The thing is some people are still filing bankruptcy due to medical bills and what nots, so clearly has a long ways to go, either that maybe Universal Care?
I didn't like the idea of mandate health insurance or face a penalty, but then again, everyone that owns and drives a vehicle is required to buy insurance, perhaps it really isn't that different? I do see the needs for both insurance.

 

[tabzer]

There is an argument that owning and operating a vehicle is privilege. (It's arguably a necessity for some) I think that the encroachment on personal health is a step beyond. Some people would rather live their lives, and face their disease on a personal level. Taxation is already a big issue. People aren't allowed to delegate what their taxes are used for. During Obama's regime, the taxes that civilians paid, paid for Obama's bombing of a hospital and Afghan wedding.

To force people to pay for medical practices that they disagree with (like abortion), beyond that, it is just another outlet for political (and corporate) corruption.

*Snip*

 

[Lacius]

It's not irrelevant. It's the core of my point. It seems that you are so interested in the narrative that Trump lost, that it doesn't matter if Trump's interest appears on both sides of the argument.

Furthermore, you could sue your own mother for more electoral votes for Trump, be denied, just to add another tick to the scorecard--because that's "what Trump wants".

It was a shit-show when it began, and somehow it has gotten worse.



Further reinforcement of the term "ally" being used arbitrarily.

It's not that I'm interested or invested in the narrative that Trump and his allies lost another case. It's that Trump and his allies lost another case. Like, that's an incontrovertible fact.

If Trump and/or notable Trump allies sued my mother for more electoral votes and lost, I could indeed call that another loss for them. It wouldn't be much more or less ridiculous than some of the other lawsuits they've put forward, including the most recent one we're talking about.

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Well, now that is a load of BS. I lost a good insurance plan because of it and the selections of health plans disappeared after ACA passed, so I was then stuck with the "only" insurance plan available and it sucked. Now, however there are options and the coverage is much better.
Suppose ACA may have a play in this, if it did, doesn't change that people may have lost the plan that they liked, because of it.

I'm sorry you were personally affected in a negative way by Obamacare, assuming that's what happened for a moment, and my intention is not to minimize your experience or pain, but a lot of these anecdotes end up being that people were happy with their plans that no longer existed because they were dirt cheap, and they were dirt cheap because the plans didn't meet the most basic requirements for what a health insurance plan should cover. Was that possibly the case?

I'm glad you've had better luck since then with the exchanges.

 

[Lacius]

The primary thing I didn't like about ACA was that it forced people to be covered by health insurance, even if they didn't want it. It looked like an assault on independent people.

I also didn't like the individual mandate, but there were a lot of good reasons for it.

1. Without the mandate, people could conceivably go off their insurance when they didn't think they needed it, and go on their insurance when they thought they did need it. The thinking was this would cause insurance prices to increase, causing more people to leave, causing prices to go up, causing more people to leave, and so on in a positive feedback loop.
2. The goal of Obamacare was to make it so thousands of people wouldn't die every year solely because they didn't have adequate health insurance. There were two ways to do that: automatically cover them (e.g. Medicare for All), or create some sort of penalty for individuals if they don't get themselves covered.
3. One of the ways the law was going to keep prices low was to make sure young and/or healthy people would buy health insurance who were unlikely to actually use it. The thinking was that by causing an influx of people paying into the system without pulling out of the system, premiums would go down.

There was a lot of convoluted silliness about Obamacare, and it was because the decision was made to keep for-profit private health insurance a thing so as not to uproot the system. That was a mistake, and Medicare for All would have made things a lot less stupid.

Anecdotally, I saw first-hand the pain the individual mandate caused some people. People who were physically unable to afford health insurance were forced to pay the mandate penalty because it was the far cheaper option. The reality of this anecdote though is this only happened to those specific people because the conservatives on the Supreme Court struck down the Medicaid expansion provision that required states to expand Medicaid. If that hadn't happened, literally everyone in my anecdote would have gotten free coverage under Medicaid. The only reason they didn't qualify for subsidies on the exchange is because they were too poor, since Medicaid was supposed to cover people that poor.

 

[Foxi4]

I can't believe people still buy the "you can keep your doctor" line, the new HHS regulations pushed insurers to cancel plans that deviated from the new standards even slightly, the administration forced their hand. It was even PolitiFact's Lie of the Year in 2013. We don't know how many plans were cancelled outright, analysts estimate it was around 4 million. 2% of the insured population, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't "exceedingly rare" either.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

It was obviously a lie from the get-go, which is why the list of caveats only kept growing each time it was mentioned.

 

[Lacius]

https://www.factcheck.org/2013/10/reality-confronts-obamas-false-promise/

I can kind of see why you think someone talking back to you would be wasting their time.

With the exception I already described, there was nothing about the Obamacare law that caused people to lose their plans. Health insurance plans were in flux long before Obamacare was passed, and they will be in flux long after. The single exception is when a plan didn't meet extremely basic requirements for what health insurance should be, since these so-called plans were arguably health insurance in name only. If you want to count the end of these ineffective plans as "people losing the health insurance they liked," then I will agree with you that Obamacare displaced some people, but the Obama administration always acknowledged this, it wasn't a bad thing, and it accounts for a very small minority of people.

 

[Foxi4]

One example: PBS Newshour interviewed a woman from Washington, D.C., who was a supporter of the health care law and found her policy canceled. New policies had significantly higher rates. She told Newshour that the only thing the new policy covered that her old one didn’t was maternity care and pediatric services. And she was 58.

"The chance of me having a child at this age is zero. So, you know, I ask the president, why do I have to pay an additional $5,000 a year for maternity coverage that I will never, ever need?" asked Deborah Persico.

It's almost as if customers were better off picking a plan that actually addresses their needs as opposed to buying into an expensive spaghetti factory. Might save you $5K a year.

 

[urherenow]

Taxation is already a big issue. People aren't allowed to delegate what their taxes are used for. During Obama's regime, the taxes that civilians paid, paid for Obama's bombing of a hospital and Afghan wedding.
*Snip*

Yea, like remember when we didn't have $5billion to pay for wall construction on our borders, but now we have $700billion to give away overseas? Even to those who aren't our allies like Pakistan? For frivolous bullshit like "gender studies"?

This is a non-partisan post, by the way. The entirety of congress is to blame as far as I'm concerned, considering they had enough votes to override a veto.

 

[Xzi]

Not sure how we got on the topic of ACA, aka Romneycare, but let's not forget: Joe Lieberman (a DINO if ever there was one) was the deciding vote that killed single-payer and/or the public option. And that's what Obama was actually pushing for. Leaving the US healthcare industry be was not an option, as it was hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars per year, and even the occasional headache would disqualify you from receiving healthcare coverage. It was unsustainable, and the ACA may be too small a bandaid to fix that entirely. Now let's watch for the next four years as any attempts to improve the program are obstructed by Republicans.

 

[D34DL1N3R]

I can't believe people still buy the "you can keep your doctor" line, the new HHS regulations pushed insurers to cancel plans that deviated from the new standards even slightly, the administration forced their hand. It was even PolitiFact's Lie of the Year in 2013. We don't know how many plans were cancelled outright, analysts estimate it was around 4 million. 2% of the insured population, which isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but it wasn't "exceedingly rare" either.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ar-if-you-like-your-health-care-plan-keep-it/

It was obviously a lie from the get-go, which is why the list of caveats only kept growing each time it was mentioned.

I can't believe people still try to push the lie that they were forced to change doctors. You also missed one of tabzers little smart ass comments during your "clean up".

 

[KingVamp]

Why do people keep acting as if there isn't better healthcare outside the USA?

 

[Deleted User]

Why do people keep acting as if there isn't better healthcare outside the USA?

perhaps sunk cost fallacy? idk, just shooting in the dark

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or, more likely, nationalism

 

[Foxi4]

I can't believe people still try to push the lie that they were forced to change doctors. You also missed one of tabzers little smart ass comments during your "clean up".

All the posts that remained in the thread are, in my eyes, compliant with the rules of the board, but you're welcome to use the report button if you think something was missed. As for "believing the lie", it's a well-documented fact that this happened to millions of people, so it's not even a conversation worth having.

Not sure how we got on the topic of ACA, aka Romneycare, but let's not forget: Joe Lieberman (a DINO if ever there was one) was the deciding vote that killed single-payer and/or the public option. And that's what Obama was actually pushing for. Leaving the US healthcare industry be was not an option, as it was hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars per year, and even the occasional headache would disqualify you from receiving healthcare coverage. It was unsustainable, and the ACA may be too small a bandaid to fix that entirely. Now let's watch for the next four years as any attempts to improve the program are obstructed by Republicans.

It's funny how it's Obamacare when the program is getting praise, but Romneycare when it's being criticised. All optics, no substance. You are correct though, it is a band-aid on a fundamentally broken system that does need to be completely dismantled.

 

[morvoran]

Well folks and leftist jokes, it looks like ol' Joe has finally started plans to concede this election. Usually, around this time, construction of the inaugural stage would be going non-stop until Jan 20th, but it seems that instead of putting up the stands, they are starting to dismantle them. This, as well as Kamala's resistance to giving up her Senate seat, makes it seem that Joe is pre-planning his unavoidable arrest due to years of treason, election fraud, and other crimes against the US and rest of the world.

That or he knows that nobody will show up just like they didn't on all his rallies, virtual events, his acceptance speech, or the November 3rd election.

https://wjla.com/news/local/photos-...ed-as-bidens-plan-virtual-inauguration-parade

All the posts that remained in the thread are, in my eyes, compliant with the rules of the board

except all the "off-topic" posts, but I'll go back under my rock before you look into that too much.....

 

[XDel]

It's weird, Trump has way more followers on all his social media accounts than Biden... Twitter, Youtube, Facebook, etc.

Biden didn't even campaign and now he is the most voted for candidate in U.S. history. Curious

 

[Deleted User]

So VP Pence wins and it counts for a loss against "Trump and his Allies".

perhaps this will clean things up

 

[Xzi]

It's funny how it's Obamacare when the program is getting praise, but Romneycare when it's being criticised. All optics, no substance. You are correct though, it is a band-aid on a fundamentally broken system that does need to be completely dismantled.

Most Republicans use "Obamacare" with negative connotations without even understanding that it's the same thing as the ACA. But it's always been Romneycare, as it was implemented in Utah long before it went national. It's the one and only healthcare plan Republicans have managed to devise over the last several decades or even centuries, so of course they preferred it to single-payer or the public option when it came time to vote.

The only fix for our healthcare system which can possibly hold up for the long term is to join the rest of the first-world nations in implementing national/universal coverage. And I don't think Biden's plan is going to get us there. You can't squeeze blood from a tomato, and you can't expect workers to pay out of pocket for private healthcare insurance after a year-long pandemic and recession.

 

[morvoran]

No point in discussing any future plans Biden might have as he won't be inaugurated. The only term he is going to serve is a life sentence in prison for treason and other "kiddie" related crimes.

 

[Xzi]

No point in discussing any future plans Biden might have as he won't be inaugurated.

"No point in discussing reality, Mr. Un-Reality is here!"