Migrants don't come over because they want to, they come here because they have to.

[TraderPatTX]

No, only nazi ideology. The irony is that you have no idea what that means, yet you accused me of it.

Grow up and learn history and don't just act like an entitled idiot all the time.

Your shop based fantasies are evidence of a rather disturbed mind. You should get help.

It has come out that the DOD has been using Twitter as a giant psyop, DHS/FBI was paying Twitter to silence Americans including world renown doctors and you actually believe that our history is honest? Do you actually believe that these tactics just started in the last few years or do you think it is possible that governments around the world have been performing psyops on all of us for decades? They can't even tell us the truth about JFK's assassination and declass all of the documents. What are they hiding? What else are they hiding?

C'mon man.

 

[mrdude]

No, only nazi ideology. The irony is that you have no idea what that means, yet you accused me of it.

Grow up and learn history and don't just act like an entitled idiot all the time.

Your shop based fantasies are evidence of a rather disturbed mind. You should get help.

Haha, you also have short term memory problems as well:

https://gbatemp.net/threads/migrant...ere-because-they-have-to.623252/post-10029327

I'm literally laughing at you and mocking you and yet you're too dumb to notice.

 

[Youkai]

Well I have only read part of the whole discussion here but it is easy to see again that everyone here sees only either 1 or 0 and nothing in between ....

You know I doubt those people who say they don't want immigrants in their country would actually want to harm other and I also doubt they are bad people not wanting to help but helping isn't always the same as giving someone everything they want and working for them to have a good life.
Also those people here critisizing the "right leaning" people probably don't spent money to help the poor every month either (or do you ?)


I also say I am leaning right (while my GF is very far left) and as most right people here I don't want just "any" immigrand in my Country, yes we need to help and yes we also need help (workforce and so on) but there need to be rules and it must be allowed to ask "why do you want to come here" if the answer is "I want money" or "a better life" or something like this its understandable but thats not a reason for us to let anyone in. If they really "need" to runaway because they face a death penalty because they are pro demecratic or stuff like that we need to let them in and help or like right now we let almost all Ukrainian people in here in Europe as they need help.

Also right now even though its crying on a very high level, many people even in first world countries seem to feel like they need to fight to survive (which I doubt) so its even harder to accept that we pay billions and more only to "foreigners" who came uninvited instead of using all the money for our own good.

 

[CommanderCool]

Well I have only read part of the whole discussion here but it is easy to see again that everyone here sees only either 1 or 0 and nothing in between ....

You know I doubt those people who say they don't want immigrants in their country would actually want to harm other and I also doubt they are bad people not wanting to help but helping isn't always the same as giving someone everything they want and working for them to have a good life.
Also those people here critisizing the "right leaning" people probably don't spent money to help the poor every month either (or do you ?)


I also say I am leaning right (while my GF is very far left) and as most right people here I don't want just "any" immigrand in my Country, yes we need to help and yes we also need help (workforce and so on) but there need to be rules and it must be allowed to ask "why do you want to come here" if the answer is "I want money" or "a better life" or something like this its understandable but thats not a reason for us to let anyone in. If they really "need" to runaway because they face a death penalty because they are pro demecratic or stuff like that we need to let them in and help or like right now we let almost all Ukrainian people in here in Europe as they need help.

Also right now even though its crying on a very high level, many people even in first world countries seem to feel like they need to fight to survive (which I doubt) so its even harder to accept that we pay billions and more only to "foreigners" who came uninvited instead of using all the money for our own good.

the moral high ground isn't yours to claim because you deem yourself centrist or trying to find compromise...even when your post shows that you're far from that idea of switzerland staring and being holier than thou.

 

[Youkai]

the moral high ground isn't yours to claim because you deem yourself centrist or trying to find compromise...even when your post shows that you're far from that idea of switzerland staring and being holier than thou.

lol where do I ever claim beeing somewhere in the middle ? I even said I am leaning more to the right XD

maybe you should actually read and use your brain before commenting ?

 

[Deleted member 586536]

lol where do I ever claim beeing somewhere in the middle ? I even said I am leaning more to the right XD

You setup a false dichotomy at the begging, which made it sound like you were attempting to sound to be impartial.

Well I have only read part of the whole discussion here but it is easy to see again that everyone here sees only either 1 or 0 and nothing in between ....

You know I doubt those people who say they don't want immigrants in their country would actually want to harm other and I also doubt they are bad people not wanting to help but helping isn't always the same as giving someone everything they want and working for them to have a good life.
Also those people here critisizing the "right leaning" people probably don't spent money to help the poor every month either (or do you ?)

Additionally, you make two flawed arguments.

A. "and I also doubt they are bad people not wanting to help but helping isn't always the same as giving someone everything they want and working for them to have a good life."

The United States made a refugee crisis like no other. ice would likely get a hold of and deport before an immigrant could request refugee status at all. Ontop of the fact that people at the border are living in near camp like conditions, which I should add, Biden didn't fix. Leftists aren't asking for them to get a car, a house for free. They're simply asking to help them get a job, and not be treated like shit in the legal system. Is crossing the border illegal? yes. Is it immoral? Not always. And right now our current system is treating as "your a horrible person for crossing the border, deport, block refugee status as much as possible "
When you could be deporting that person,back to the gang members who were looking to shoot them dead, or forcefully recruit them.


B. Leftists won't critize you for not spending money, we criticize you for fighting against policy that would actually fix the damn problem.
We say "hey let's increase the minimum wage" which at least sets a floor for people to be paid on. The minimum wage right now should be $20 dollars now. But because it's been unchanged for so long, primarily because democrats (party) are shit, thinking they can appease right wingers.

We suggest that perhaps we should tax the rich. We suggest that we should stop dumping money into oil industries and set a price cap. And biden, of course, as from what I could tell, didn't get a price cap through, meaning that while we step down from oil, the oil industry is going to price gouge as much as possible.

And instead, right wingers say "big government" and think that it's suppressing the "free market"
Which I have to ask. How much more free market shit do we need. Insulin costs as much as it does here because we don't do price caps. It's 100x more expensive here.
When people have a inflexible need, such as insulin. They can't negotiate their life, it's non negotiable. Either they get it, or they die.

And then the most right wing policy has provided is even more deregulation, worse working conditions, worse living conditions, worse life expectancy, increase life expectancy for only the top 10%, and the rich getting richer. And then when people, usually leftists, mention that this is a problem, that no person should ever have that much wealth.
Right wingers then give a dumb ass response saying "that's just how the world works, work harder"
Like as if they didn't just help assist in making the problem even harder for damn people to get on equal footing.

That's why leftists blast you as hard as they do, and that's just on a economic front that doesn't immediately dump capitalism entirely. Right wingers are pretty commonly, unreasonable. Plus usually speaking, a dose of racism/xenophobia/whatever bigoted crap mixed in.

Also right now even though its crying on a very high level, many people even in first world countries seem to feel like they need to fight to survive (which I doubt) so its even harder to accept that we pay billions and more only to "foreigners" who came uninvited instead of using all the money for our own good.

We pay for roads, which all uses. Our tax dollars go to having (or at least, if your not flint) should be clean drinking water. We pay for the billionaires who get tax refunds (United States specific, mentioning that since I don't know if it applies in other countries) while companies like I believe activison-blizzard, paid literally nothing in taxes, while getting a tax refund. We pay for schools in our nearby school disctrict. We pay for all the subsides that industries get. But immigration? services for "those" people is too much? Really? The last thing you should be considering cutting out, is humanitarian resources. Start with the insane subsides and absurd amount of wealth at the top. All of it.

 

[CommanderCool]

lol where do I ever claim beeing somewhere in the middle ? I even said I am leaning more to the right XD

maybe you should actually read and use your brain before commenting ?

you claim that people are in between zeroes and ones and that everyone should be trying to find compromise or looking at the in-between. there's no room for that.

 

[Youkai]

....

Most if not all of this sounds good but sadly most of it is also not possible withouth causing a lot of problems.

Like you say to higher wage, yes I would like to see that too but then again most people (even the hardcore lefties) already buy most of their stuff from China as its almost impossible to pay stuff made in First World Countries as wages are already rather high compared to most other countries so highering minimum wages more and more (as we do in Germany for years) its getting harder and harder to find local made stuff that you would want to pay for also I "assume" this makes lots of companies reluctant to open up branches in most first world countries because it isn't worth it paying us so much money so this whole concept might actually ruin "us" instead of making it better for all of us.

The other stuff with the taxes ... yes, yes and yes.

I for one think rich people need to pay much much more taxes as well as rich companies but then again you would need the whole world to work together but sadly there are countries abusing the system giving rich people and rich companies the chance to hardly pay no taxes at all only for paying this little bit in those countries instead so those stupid low tax countries steal lots of money from all other countries only to hardly get anything at all in the end as they go down so much.

And yeah we pay for "our" roads (okay I for one don't even have a car but yeah) and for "our" health system and in theory everyone of us is supposed to pay equaly, people coming from where never paid for all of our stuff ... of course if you give them the chance to work and pay into the system it should be okay but thats what I say, we do need people but we don't need just anyone.

For me even those people who never work and are just like parasites to our society (even if they are natives) are the worst, I myself know one guy who gets lots of money from Denmark every month for not working who is traveling around the world ~6 month every year always sending me pictures and telling me how stupid I am that I am actually working.
In Germany they at least in theory require you to search a job and prove it to get money ... I was really shocked when they tried to remove that requirement together with removing the chance of minimising the paid money if people don't even try, luckily this was changed back at least a little bit.



The whole system is not fair, not to the poor not to the rich that abuse it for their gains and of course not to people that had the bad luck to get born into a poor country but if you would want to help everything you would need to change the whole world, just throwing money at all the foreigners wanting money won't change a damn thing.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

Like you say to higher wage, yes I would like to see that too but then again most people (even the hardcore lefties) already buy most of their stuff from China. As its almost impossible to pay stuff made in First World Countries as wages are already rather high compared to most other countries. So highering minimum wages more and more (as we do in Germany for years) its getting harder and harder to find local made stuff that you would want to pay for. Also I "assume" this makes lots of companies reluctant to open up branches in most first world countries because it isn't worth it paying us so much money so this whole concept might actually ruin "us" instead of making it better for all of us.

This one long sentence that is lacking any punctuation. So I've putted punctuation in where I think were you had separation of ideas.

Like you say to higher wage, yes I would like to see that too but then again most people (even the hardcore lefties) already buy most of their stuff from China. As its almost impossible to pay stuff made in First World Countries as wages are already rather high compared to most other countries.

Worldness? I don't know what the exact phrasing is. But "first world", "second world", and "third world" don't define economics, it's been conflated over time with that. But rather political policy. It arose from the cold war.

Anyways, China has more wealth than the United States in 2019, and in 2021, second richest, with United States being first.
So defining "world" countries is rather useless in this discussion. Since if we're going with the conflated version, it would include China. Which would make this discussion pretty mute.

So highering minimum wages more and more (as we do in Germany for years) its getting harder and harder to find local made stuff that you would want to pay for.

Not exactly. So in the United States at least, things are extremely predatory. If a big company opens right next to you, they don't win because they're just that better. It's because they commonly have deeper pockets. They have a lot of money to go throw at a problem.

The reason Walmart became as prevalent as it was, was because it could afford to loose year after year after year, with marking everything down to absurd degrees. It killed smaller businesses with that strategy, and then re raised it's pricing even higher than what it was before the price drop once the competition was dead. Essentially, nearly every damn corporation these days needs to get split up, it's simply too big. (and oh, that capitalism itself is extremely exploitative)

If that was to be done, and idk, checks to make sure that the competition isn't abusing their wealth to absurd degrees and actually act on it, local business would come back and flourish.

Also by increasing the minimum wage, it would actually help small businesses, not hurt them. A lot of right wingers made the statement saying that those small businesses wouldn't be able to pay that minimum wage/ it would kill them. What they don't realize is that people would actually have money to actually spend and experiment with, as in more money would enter the local domain. Not be stuck in some billionaires pocket as a bonus.


All of what I said is possible. Not easy, not fixed in a day, but it can be done.

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2022

For me even those people who never work and are just like parasites to our society (even if they are natives) are the worst, I myself know one guy who gets lots of money from Denmark every month for not working who is traveling around the world ~6 month every year always sending me pictures and telling me how stupid I am that I am actually working.

So he travels around the world for 6 months. What is he doing on those other 6 months?

 

[smf]

They can't even tell us the truth about JFK's assassination and declass all of the documents.

How can you possibly know they haven't told you the truth?

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2022

I myself know one guy who gets lots of money from Denmark every month for not working who is traveling around the world ~6 month every year always sending me pictures and telling me how stupid I am that I am actually working.

https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1107&langId=en&intPageId=4496

To obtain entitlement to a new period of unemployment benefit, it is a requirement that you work full time for a minimum of 52 weeks

 

[Youkai]

How can you possibly know they haven't told you the truth?

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2022

https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=1107&langId=en&intPageId=4496

To obtain entitlement to a new period of unemployment benefit, it is a requirement that you work full time for a minimum of 52 weeks

I'd assume his is for people moving to Denmark ? the guy I am talking about was born there and his parent and grandparents were danish already ...

@Nothereed
He said he gets ~1600€ each month (of course in DKK) but unlike Germany he needs to pay with this money for "everything" so he doesn't have health injurance, rent for his flat or anything at all included. So he got a super small flat in the outskirts of Coppenhagen for ~100€ (he doesn't even have a private bath/toilet) saves up most of his money for 6 month and then travels around the world as a tourist having fun.

In Germany you couldn't do it that easy as you "only" get ~500€ but everything else is already paid and you even get a Computer, TV, and "everything" that is supposed to be a minimum requirement for your home paid by the country.

 

[smf]

I'd assume his is for people moving to Denmark ?

I doubt it is any different, one of the requirements is.

• have residence in Denmark;

You also cannot be off travelling...

To fulfil the availability requirement you have to:

• be registered for employment at jobcentret (the Public Employment Service);
• have a CV, which is approved, on jobnet.dk;
• reside and stay in Denmark;
• be able to undertake work at one days’ notice;
• be actively seeking all available work.

It's possible they are committing fraud, or are just plain lying to you.

 

[lolcatzuru]

If America intervened with them less and gave them opportunities to recover and grow, I think there would not be so many migrants coming over here.

but that doesnt make any sense, if they HAVE to come over here, what do we have to do with anything? we could solve the whole migrant problem in a year if the powers that be actually wanted that.

Post automatically merged: Dec 27, 2022

I'd assume his is for people moving to Denmark ? the guy I am talking about was born there and his parent and grandparents were danish already ...

@Nothereed
He said he gets ~1600€ each month (of course in DKK) but unlike Germany he needs to pay with this money for "everything" so he doesn't have health injurance, rent for his flat or anything at all included. So he got a super small flat in the outskirts of Coppenhagen for ~100€ (he doesn't even have a private bath/toilet) saves up most of his money for 6 month and then travels around the world as a tourist having fun.

In Germany you couldn't do it that easy as you "only" get ~500€ but everything else is already paid and you even get a Computer, TV, and "everything" that is supposed to be a minimum requirement for your home paid by the country.

i would avoid notthereed, he's a contrarian who is... not going to agree with you no matter what you say.

 

[smf]

Nope, we don't want illegal economic migrants - you might want them, but we don't as we're the ones that need to pay for them, all our prices go up because of them, they suppress the wages,

No, they don't. However I accept they believe they do and foreigners making you worse off makes you angry.

We call you people racists, because you are. Like your heroes the nazi's, who made the exact same arguments as you do.

 

[mrdude]

No, they don't. However I accept they believe they do and foreigners making you worse off makes you angry.

We call you people racists, because you are. Like your heroes the nazi's, who made the exact same arguments as you do.

I despise the Nazi's, they are no hero's of mine. They seem to be your hero's though as you seem to like comparing everyone that disagrees with your views to being one. You use the word racist in the same way, which makes me wonder if you know what those words really mean or what the Nazi's were all about - I don't think you do. I think you are just a poorly educated freeloader with socialist tendencies, you have a sense of entitlement and have probably never done and honest hard days work in your life.

I also note, you're rehashing the same old crap - you came out with your Nazi crap in this post as well and got a reply.
https://gbatemp.net/threads/migrant...ause-they-have-to.623252/page-2#post-10029570

You sound like a stuck record, It must be a slow day for you.

 

[smf]

I despise the Nazi's, they are no hero's of mine. They seem to be your hero's though as you seem to like comparing everyone that disagrees with your views to being one.

And yet you have the exact same views on immigrants to the nazi's.

I don't compare everyone I disagree with to nazi's. I disagree with many people and don't compare them to nazi's.

If you find people comparing you to nazi's, then it's because it's a valid point.

I also note, you're rehashing the same old crap - you came out with your Nazi crap in this post as well and got a reply.

That was in reply to you when you compared me to a nazi first, which makes no sense as my views on immigrants are polar opposite to the nazi's (unlike yours).

As you bought up nazi's, I will forever keep pointing out your simularity to nazi's whenever you give out a nazi opinion. Until you acknowledge that you know what a nazi is & either change your view point or admit it's valid to compare you to a nazi.

If this is boring to you, then just realize that your nazi aligned opinions are just as boring to us.

You perhaps should stop comparing people to nazi's whenever they disagree with you, until you learn what nazi's are.

In case you forgot, then I'll remind you what you said.

If you wish to go off topic and start a Brexit thread, do that. This thread is about illegal migrants. Also it's quite telling how you just brushed aside those British workers as if their job and housing meant nothing to them, you're all for the foreigners though. If you'd been around during WW1 or WW2, you'd probably have been a Nazi collaborator and have been shot or hung for being a traitor.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone here on the left who has welcomed ILLEGAL criminal trespassers into their home, and offered food, comfort, shelter and support.

YOUR home. Into YOUR house.

So far, not a single politician who has literally cried over the "crisis" of criminals illegally crossing the border in search of "a better life" has taken in a single person, let alone a family, let alone an entire horde of hundreds or thousands, surging across the border.

In fact, every single leftist politician I have seen has cried foul when conservative governors, mostly at border states or ports of entry who TRULY deal with this bullshit every single day, has just tried to flip it back around, using a lot of the same terms you hear on this thread. Accusing everyone who wants people to obey the law of being racists and Nazis.

Maybe it's just me, but if the very first act you commit on American soil is a crime, by even being there in the first place when you had to illegally cross a border and try to hide from the authorities to do so, that tells me all I need to know about your character.

I do not want you as a fellow American if your character is that flawed. Maya Angelou said that when someone shows you their character, believe them the first time. She was right. If the only way you can get to America is by breaking the law, you have demonstrated a fundamental lack of character that would exempt you from being worthy of being an American in the first place.

We have more than enough criminals as it is. Stay your sorry ass in your own home country and FIX YOUR OWN PROBLEMS. Fuck off. We don't need you unless you can show that you will add to our strength and glory, rather than just be a parasite, a criminal and a bum.

I could not give less of a fuck about how anyone feels about my opinion. I simply do not care. Don't waste your time writing me a wall of text about what a racist Nazi Trump-lover I am, especially when you capitalize "black" but never "White" when you are referring to human beings by race.

Personally, I support snipers at all American borders, with orders to shoot on sight. Without any fear of loss of life or liberty, these criminals will never stop trying to invade this nation. I fully support any nation enforcing its sovereign right to establish border laws, by any and all means necessary.

Snipers and bullets are cheaper than putting hundreds of criminals up in hotel rooms, or burdening churches and food banks and shelters. Maybe after a few families get one-shotted, the message will be delivered, and these hundreds of thousands of criminals will learn their lesson and stay in their own shitholes until they fix their own problems.

Get mad. Stay mad.

 

[smf]

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone here on the left who has welcomed ILLEGAL criminal trespassers into their home, and offered food, comfort, shelter and support.

YOUR home. Into YOUR house.
.

WTF are you talking about? Who said anything about YOUR house?

Your reasoning is so flawed, I didn't even bother reading any further. You should probably rethink your whole strategy of putting a point across.

 

[CraddaPoosta]

WTF are you talking about? Who said anything about YOUR house?

Your reasoning is so flawed, I didn't even bother reading any further. You should probably rethink your whole strategy of putting a point across.

America IS my house, genius. I know it's hard for leftists to comprehend simple terms that they don't agree with, but, just TRY. I almost believe in you.

 

[Deleted member 586536]

I'm still waiting to hear from anyone here on the left who has welcomed ILLEGAL criminal trespassers into their home, and offered food, comfort, shelter and support.

You're the only person who has brought that idea up. Genuinely. Perhaps it's because it's not a position "leftists" hold, but one that you got told they hold?