[POLL] U.S. Presidential Election 2016

[Deleted-355425]

but have you read them? They seem to show definite dislike but no evidence of rigging.

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Wow you seriously think they arent intelligent? Well pretty much anyone from18-30 sways left in the UK

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The shift to left is definitely increasing a 10% increase year on year for young people, remember younger people arent all that traditionalist, I sure as hell am not.

Wont make a difference to brexit, that's here to stay

 

[el_gonz87]

but have you read them? They seem to show definite dislike but no evidence of rigging.

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Wow you seriously think they arent intelligent? Well pretty much anyone from18-30 sways left in the UK

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The shift to left is definitely increasing a 10% increase year on year for young people, remember younger people arent all that traditionalist, I sure as hell am not.

Yeah I think it's a pendulum, and it's a shame because this election was negative to the extreme even in the primaries. My side won this time and I think/hope they will again in 4 years, after that I fully expect a swing back to a democratic president.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

What the hell do you mean no evidence '_>'
Also wow, you read them *quite* fast.

Anyways, feel free to do your own research since it seems like the proof I have provided wont suffice. If you still can't accept the facts, then I think I'll be done here.

Oh no, i read them quite a while back. rigging wasnt as direct as you imply it to be, quite indirect but yes there was suppression

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Wont make a difference to brexit, that's here to stay

nope it wont, but it will make a difference to the future of our country.

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Yeah I think it's a pendulum, and it's a shame because this election was negative to the extreme even in the primaries. My side won this time and I think/hope they will again in 4 years, after that I fully expect a swing back to a democratic president.

Right now i see a move to right for the next 6 years and a shift back to left after.

 

[RevPokemon]

1. An electoral system which can allow someone who does not have at least the popular vote to 'win' is flawed particularly in a presidential. Presidential elections are usually hard to fuck up. You usually get this issue in pariliamentary systems which uses majoritarian systems.

Before I respond I must say that I agree that the EC is a flawed system.

I do agree but the fact that it is something that rarely occurs makes it something that most people do not feel the overwhelming need to change. Although I agrre with you

2. Don;t mean shit. A bad electoral system is a bad electoral systems regardless of political affiliation. Though it is understandable to for Dems to feel that way as the Democrats have won the popular vote in every Presidential election since 92 apart from Bush's reelection.

It actually does matter since the only way that we could get rid of the electoral college would be through bipartisan support that currently does not exist.

3. All votes would become equal in importance. If you live in a deep red/blue state and vote the other way, than your votes really counts for shit.

The issues for the states is that they would lose power and instead campaigns would be more likely to encourage deep red/blue areas to vote rather than focus on places where they could not get the votes in the amounts they need.

That being said I have to say that I agree with you but am just playing devil's advocate.

 

[el_gonz87]

Before I respond I must say that I agree that the EC is a flawed system.

I do agree but the fact that it is something that rarely occurs makes it something that most people do not feel the overwhelming need to change. Although I agrre with you


It actually does matter since the only way that we could get rid of the electoral college would be through bipartisan support that currently does not exist.


The issues for the states is that they would lose power and instead campaigns would be more likely to encourage deep red/blue areas to vote rather than focus on places where they could not get the votes in the amounts they need.

That being said I have to say that I agree with you but am just playing devil's advocate.

It would require much more than a bipartisan support, getting rid of it requires a constitutional amendment:
1) Two-thirds vote in Senate
2) Two-thirds vote in House
3) Ratification of three-fourths (38) of the 50 states.

Good luck getting 3 to happen!

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

It would require much more than a bipartisan support, getting rid of it requires a constitutional amendment:
1) Two-thirds vote in Senate
2) Two-thirds vote in House
3) Ratification of three-fourths (38) of the 50 states.

Good luck getting 3 to happen!

jheez so to fix irrational ideas you have to do the most illogical things

 

[Viri]

Spoiler

Thank god we live in a republic.

 

[el_gonz87]

jheez so to fix irrational ideas you have to do the most illogical things

Not sure why you think it's illogical, our constitution was specifically designed to be very very difficult to change. It would prevent people like you presume of Trump from removing someone's right to free speech per say.

As stated earlier the college was designed to balance state and federal power, all the while keeping the parties revolving in and out of power so 1 rule doesn't' overwhelm the minority.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Not sure why you think it's irrational, our constitution was specifically designed to be very very difficult to change. It would prevent people like you presume of Trump from removing someone's right to free speech per say.

As stated earlier the college was designed to balance state and federal power, all the while keeping the parties revolving in and out of power so 1 rule doesn't' overwhelm the minority.

I'd much rather have one good party than multiple bad ones and like one good one

 

[el_gonz87]

I'd much rather have one good party than multiple bad ones and like one good one

Our forefathers, and I fully agree with them, understood that "good" is a point a view in time and not generalize-able to a whole population.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Our forefathers, and I fully agree with them, understood that "good" is a point a view in time and not generalize-able to a whole population.

well it is if its the majority including minority support.

 

[el_gonz87]

well it is if its the majority including minority support.

If 47.4% of the population thought a govt is "bad", is it healthy and fair for them to be ruled in perpetuity?

I don't think that would be best for the country regardless of who it was.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

If 47.4% of the population thought a govt is "bad", is it healthy and fair for them to be ruled in perpetuity?

No, thats why campaigning exists you persuade people, it makes parties want to persuade and compete rather than stagnate.

 

[el_gonz87]

No, thats why campaigning exists you persuade people, it makes parties want to persuade and compete rather than stagnate.

Why campaign to the minority when one already holds the support of the majority? trust me it would be much easier to just focus on keeping 51% of the country happy.

 

[TheDarkGreninja]

Why campaign to the minority when one already holds the support of the majority? trust me it would be much easier to just focus on keeping 51% of the country happy.

Nope, it would be other parties getting the minorities as well as the main vote or at least 15% of it. This works well in the UK so i see no issues.

 

[el_gonz87]

Nope, it would be other parties getting the minorities as well as the main vote or at least 15% of it. This works well in the UK so i see no issues.

Well this works well in the US, so I don't see why it should change. Obama lost the primaries to Hillary in 08 and yet here we are...

 

[TotalInsanity4]

I'd much rather have one good party than multiple bad ones and like one good one

Careful, that's actually a fascist ideal

 

[hobbledehoy899]

Careful, that's actually a fascist ideal

So what you're saying is that the Soviet Union was actually fascist?

 

[ground]

Well this works well in the US, so I don't see why it should change. Obama lost the primaries to Hillary in 08 and yet here we are...

I am not attacking you in any way, but if i see the reactions to this elections and the fact that NEITHER of the cadidates got over 50% of the total votes (so whoever it would have been, the majority of the usa would not have supporrted him/her), i think their might be room for inprovement.

That being sad i have been living in the usa for a couple of years now. Both parties fought a disgusting and awfull campaign (where a lot of money is simply lost on shaming each other and making the public afraid). The way the democratic candidate was "choosen" was rigged and the corruption in it was enormous. This is all agains democracy what america values so much, so Hillary simply had to go down to prevent such practices and worse in the future. And the history of hillary did not help neither (She bought all the media, she had the current president with her, she had all the money, and she still lost from trump...if that happens you really have to be a bad candidate)

Trump on the other hand is not the answer, it is simply awfull that people need to be afraid and feel unequal because of their sexual preference, sex, wanna be sex or skin color and if a single person can create these feelings within people he/she seriously has to ask himself if he is a good fit for presidency.

All that being said i hope that Trump is not a bad as a president as people say now (dont forgot they spend millions on terrifying the public for trump, even wikileaks now leaked all the media involved with it), and if he is that bad the DNC has 2 years to fix itself (starting by getting rid of everybody involved in the hillary campaing) and present a good candidate who actually represents the people, and then kick trump out of the white house.

 

[el_gonz87]

I am not attacking you in any way, but if i see the reactions to this elections and the fact that NEITHER of the cadidates got over 50% of the total votes (so whoever it would have been, the majority of the usa would not have supporrted him/her), i think their might be room for inprovement.

That being sad i have been living in the usa for a couple of years now. Both parties fought a disgusting and awfull campaign (where a lot of money is simply lost on shaming each other and making the public afraid). The way the democratic candidate was "choosen" was rigged and the corruption in it was enormous. This is all agains democracy what america values so much, so Hillary simply had to go down to prevent such practices and worse in the future. And the history of hillary did not help neither (She bought all the media, she had the current president with her, she had all the money, and she still lost from trump...if that happens you really have to be a bad candidate)

Trump on the other hand is not the answer, it is simply awfull that people need to be afraid and feel unequal because of their sexual preference, sex, wanna be sex or skin color and if a single person can create these feelings within people he/she seriously has to ask himself if he is a good fit for presidency.

All that being said i hope that Trump is not a bad as a president as people say now (dont forgot they spend millions on terrifying the public for trump, even wikileaks now leaked all the media involved with it), and if he is that bad the DNC has 2 years to fix itself (starting by getting rid of everybody involved in the hillary campaing) and present a good candidate who actually represents the people, and then kick trump out of the white house.

I agree with most of what you said, but I do believe the "fear" has been media induced and blown out of proportion. Trump is not a King, not a Dictator, and we don't live in a totalitarian government as much as CNN likes to make us think we do. The MOST he will be able to do is repeal some laws that have granted people at the federal level certain rights and send those back to state and circuit courts.