Gaming Raw power of the NGP

[Deleted member 473940]

I wonder how for DS emulation. It is possible, but how? Dual screen...

Unless you hold it portrait...?

I woudnt think its powerful enough for DS emulation o.o
or not at full speed.

 

[KingdomBlade]

I wonder how for DS emulation. It is possible, but how? Dual screen...

Unless you hold it portrait...?

DS: 512 x 192
PSV: 544 x 960

It'll fit just fine, portrait or landscape.
Touch screen and buttons.

 

[chris888222]

I can't wait to see what the Vita has to offer (especially for emulation)

I'm replacing my old PS3 phat for this

And many PS3 console games are also coming for this, with PSN and everything the PSV may just be a mini PS3 instead of a handheld with just handheld titles. Can't wait...

 

[Pyrofyr]

Emulation up to and including the fifth generation of video game consoles (PS1, N64, etc) will definitely happen. The sixth generation will probably be possible too (PS2, Gamecube, XBox, etc.) But of course nothing later.

Saying that thought it is only if it gets hacked, and with the PSN incident, security will be much, much higher. I doubt it will be hacked, and if it does, it won't be for a long while, anyway.

There still isn't even a good Xbox emulator on PC.

 

[samori89]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world. ps2 real world is around 15 million, gc real world 20 million, psp real world is 2-3 million. The 3DS is more powerful than ps2, actual specs gpu wise. The cpu is not clear to me, but i'm sure they are pretty close. the ps vita is slightly stronger than the xbox 1. So actual specs 3DS=slightly more powerful ps2. and ps vita=slightly more powerful xbox. but their smaller screens put both of them above the Wii.

 

[8BitWalugi]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world. ps2 real world is around 15 million, gc real world 20 million, psp real world is 2-3 million. The 3DS is more powerful than ps2, actual specs gpu wise. The cpu is not clear to me, but i'm sure they are pretty close. the ps vita is slightly stronger than the xbox 1. So actual specs 3DS=slightly more powerful ps2. and ps vita=slightly more powerful xbox. but their smaller screens put both of them above the Wii.

Real World? What are you talking about?

And the Vita is apparently on-par with the PS3. Where did you get your facts from?

 

[Joe88]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world. ps2 real world is around 15 million, gc real world 20 million, psp real world is 2-3 million. The 3DS is more powerful than ps2, actual specs gpu wise. The cpu is not clear to me, but i'm sure they are pretty close. the ps vita is slightly stronger than the xbox 1. So actual specs 3DS=slightly more powerful ps2. and ps vita=slightly more powerful xbox. but their smaller screens put both of them above the Wii.

what is this I dont even...

 

[chris888222]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world. ps2 real world is around 15 million, gc real world 20 million, psp real world is 2-3 million. The 3DS is more powerful than ps2, actual specs gpu wise. The cpu is not clear to me, but i'm sure they are pretty close. the ps vita is slightly stronger than the xbox 1. So actual specs 3DS=slightly more powerful ps2. and ps vita=slightly more powerful xbox. but their smaller screens put both of them above the Wii.

It may be your first post, but you may spark a huge dispute among fanboys (and the Vita portion is clearly underrated, although I must say the power of it won't be on par with the PS3.)

On behalf of him, no offense to all.

 

[Nathan Drake]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world. ps2 real world is around 15 million, gc real world 20 million, psp real world is 2-3 million. The 3DS is more powerful than ps2, actual specs gpu wise. The cpu is not clear to me, but i'm sure they are pretty close. the ps vita is slightly stronger than the xbox 1. So actual specs 3DS=slightly more powerful ps2. and ps vita=slightly more powerful xbox. but their smaller screens put both of them above the Wii.

what is this I dont even...

Pretty much what Joe88 said.

 

[samori89]

the ps vita official specs put it in-line with Xbox 1 in actual game performance. psv can do 133 million polygons a second, in a actual game that would put psv at around 35 million polygons a second, Xbox 1 had pretty close to that. ps vita has way better shader technology than the xbox though, with the smaller screen, puts it closer to ps3 level. but actual numbers, the ps vita isn't even in the same ballpark as ps3. the ps vita also has more ram and probably a more powerful cpu than xbox 1. the ps2 could never run a game with 70 million polygons a second, i think the ps2 maxed around 16 maybe 18 million max. if even that.

Just a quick show of the 3ds polygon power vs ps2 are these demonstrations and a video of tekken 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxAXXzlftJ8...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJsi-SgksHY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgejUQ-HM0Q
the first is tekken 5 for ps2 look at the models, the second is a tekken tech demo for ps2, tekken 5 is clearly better, the last is tekken 3d.

 

[Rydian]

Yeah guys he's talking about fill rate, and as with any tech specs that measure performance there's the numbers they get in the labs that are made to look good, and then there's the "real world" numbers of how it actually performs in real-world situations.

 

[Nathan Drake]

The second post made substantially more sense then the first, to be fair.

Or at least, it was a little more clear in what he was actually talking about.

 

[marcus134]

hey Marcus, the 3ds 15.3 million is likely real world.[..]
The 15,3 is true for the pica 200 if clocked at 200 mhz however, it's supposed to be clocked a 133 mhz on the 3ds.

However, it's not the only thing that can make a game look good, you have to consider how the game engine make use of the hardware, and if it uses it completely or not and these evolve with time.
You also have to consider the shaders, and/or the fixed function pipeline that are on the gpu, these evolve over time and allow better looking effects.
(I lack the knowledge on shaders and fixed function pipeline that can be found on embed gpu)

One point when comparing the 3ds to the psp, the 3ds has a "5:3" (400*240) screen while the psp has 16:9; the gpu, when working on a 16:9 screen has to render a larger scene compared to a 5:3 screen.
The second point to consider is the 4mb of vram on the 3ds compared to 2mb on the psp wich allow bigger or more texture on the 3ds, added with a lower resolution screen wich may gives crisper graphics if used correctly.

There is one thing I didn't explained correctly in my previous post: to generate the auto stereoscopic images, the gpu has to render 2 different frames simultaneously, thus limiting the soft. dev. to use half of the gpu performance per frame minus the overhead.

Now, to get back to the vita:
WikipediaSeries5XT (SGXMP)
[...]
PlayStation Vita

SGX543MP4 (four cores) 134M polygons/s, fill rates in excess of 4Gpixels/sec @200 MHz

link


PS.:
I have to admit some misreading on the PICA 200, the gpu performances I gave are per pipeline but "The 3D processing core of PICA200 consists of up to four programmable vertex pipelines that can be rearranged as four pixel pipelines. " (wikipedia, from a 2006 source). If I get it correctly, it would mean (with 4 pipe), that the soft. dev. can work with 2*15Mpoly/s + 2*800Mpix/s, 3*15Mpoly/s + 1*800Mpix/s, or 1*15Mpoly/s + 3*800Mpix/s. (@ 200mhz)

Also considering the age of the source and the sales volume of Nintendo, I wouldn't be surprised that the chip on the 3ds has more than 4 pipeline or some other modification, in short, I have no idea of the 3ds performance.

 

[samori89]

I thought the 3ds had 16:9 ratio also. is 5:4 also widescreen? The 3DS is also much more powerful than PSP in every way. Kojima said that in the MGS3 demo, he had a much higher polygon count in the 3DS version vs ps2. Kingdom hearts 3D destroys birth by sleep in everyway, especially in the polygon count. birth by sleep is blocky and isn't even come close to the amount of other graphical effects being done in the Kingdom hearts 3D. The psp in all honesty, isn't in the same leauge as 3ds. from a ps2 point of view kingdom hearts 3D also surpasses kingdom hearts 2. tech wise 3DS and PS2 is a toss-up. we dont know what version of the pica 200 is being used and we also dont know how nintendo had the gpu costumized, if at all.

 

[marcus134]

I thought the 3ds had 16:9 ratio also. is 5:4 also widescreen?
The 3ds upper screen is wide, 5:3 -> 15:9, but not as wide as 16:9 screen would be. It's common practice to use lowest denominator when expressing ratio.

The 3DS is also much more powerful than PSP in every way
Without sources, this looks more like flaming/trolling.
Historically, Nintendo always shipped simple and cost effective handhelds with slightly dated spec and hardware and aimed at content. This philosophy made Nintendo thrive with success in the past decades. When considering the retail price of the 3ds, it's possible they changed their ways.

QUOTE(samori89 @ Jun 16 2011, 03:20 AM)

Kojima said that in the MGS3 demo, he had a much higher polygon count in the 3DS version vs ps2

you should post a link for that.

The demo has higher polygon count, he didn't say that the ps2 version maxed the ps2 gpu (if quoted correctly).
also, the addition of AA and tessellation fixed unit (this is an example) would allow much smoother graphics without raising poly/s ratings, therefore we can't judge the raw power of a gpu by how it renders graphics.

Although, if I'm right in the PS. of my previous post, with a 4 pipe pica 200, it would effectively have more raw power than a psp

 

[Serina]

Dreamcast emulation on this would be so awesome.

I would DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be beyond excellent.

Come to think of it, a new PS Vita Jet Grind Radio would probably be beyond excellent.

Man I want one of these things.

 

[samori89]

@Marcus
sorry i can't organize it like you, i'm doing this on my ps3.

You can find the sources, i can try to post them, but they take alot of space out of my comment box.
Psp vs 3DS
Capcom has stated that the psp could never run the 3ds version of SSF4, they had also said that the specs of the psp will not allow them to bring MT framework mobile to the device. Kojima himself stated that the 3ds was the first time a portable gaming device matched consoles. Now it is only my opinion, but if the psp was close to the 3DS in power, he wouldn't have made that kind of statement. Kotick bala from VV made a similar statement to kojima. If that doesn't do it for you, I don't know what would.
3DS vs Ps2
The fact that a first generation 3DS game surpasses a 5th generation ps2 game in polygon count, not forgetting they are the same games, is enough reason for me to suggest it has more power, not to mention, it's rendering more effects than it's ps2 counterpart. better lighting and i think it's called bump mapping, etc.

 

[tianeloso1]

I thought this was a Vita Thread Not A 3DS thread. Anyway i doubt that the Vita is capable of PS2 emulation or GameCube Emulation at a somewhat smooth rate. A dreamcast would be a challenge but the vita is perfectly capable of pulling off i mean im pretty sure each core is under-clocked (maybe 600MHz?) but we can see impressive results if the vita is hacked , i wouldnt use it for games but only for emulation

 

[chris888222]

I don't think the Vita will be hacked THAT soon.

But if has android market content (I heard from somewhere...) you can download those emulators.

 

[BORTZ]

HEY
Get on topic. this is NOT a thread to discuss the 3DS. This is a thread to discuss the thing we may be able to do with a hacked PSP Vita.
thank you.