The situation in Ukraine...

[Foxi4]

if you said is true why US and Europe Country didn't take action on china like they do in ukraine

it just hoax made by biden to raise his electability

China has been repeatedly condemned for their genocide and was subject to a number of economic sanctions.

those news are one filtered by wester mass media, preposely created just feed you though their own political anti-China agenda, in order to mindwash citizens then gain support and votes. It's been years the western world accuses China about "uighur cleanse" but untill now no significant evidence was shown, if you have any plz I'm dying to read it.

There’s nothing to “not believe” here, there’s witness testimony, satellite footage and even the Chinese government itself admitting to the draconian means of controlling the Muslim population, stopping short of calling the camps what they actually are. It’s the world’s worst-kept secret, ignorance of facts is not a viable excuse.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

What’s there to prove? There’s approx. 1 million detainees in China’s “internment camps”, they’re forcibly sterilised and used for unpaid labour.

I didn’t say that mass killings of Uyghurs are taking place - you said that to deflect. I said that a genocide is taking place, and it is - they’re ethnically cleansing the country by removing people’s ability to have children, with force, and often permanently.

Due to the one/two/three-child policy Han Chinese were also sterlized. You have to prove the Uyghurs are treated worse to come even close to genocide. In fact, they are treated better. Population limit is just one aspect. They can also score lower in university entrance exams. What a genocide...

You’re wrong about the one-child policy, period - it is no longer in effect. It “disproves” nothing. The three-child limit you’re referring to was lifted as of July 2021. You’re uninformed and stacking those L’s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-child_policy

The Uyghur population is controlled via a completely different set of “policies”, further underlining the fact that they’re treated like sub-humans.

No, you are wrong about the three-child policy. This is the problem with Westerners treating wikipedia as their god. The information is based on one American main stream article. The author misunderstood the rules. The three-child policy is still in place. If you cannot find out a simple fact like this one, how can you be so sure about your claims of genocide?
Why have you beaten your mother today? Prove your innocence!
I´ve had people insist that the CPC is called CCP due to some wikipedia article. The freakin CPC probably knows better what it calls itself than some wikipedia article.

 

[KuntilanakMerah]

and why the situation in Ukraine thread turn to be Chinese - US debate

 

[Foxi4]

Due to the one/two/three-child policy Han Chinese were also sterlized. You have to prove the Uyghurs are treated worse to come even close to genocide. In fact, they are treated better. Population limit is just one aspect. They can also score lower in university entrance exams. What a genocide...

It’s entirely possible that China has once again reversed its stance on the cap after the last article. What I can prove (and already have, see AP article, it’s not debatable) is that China is forcibly sterilising Muslims and putting them in dedicated internment camps where they’re used (and abused) for forced labour - that alone is egregious and not acceptable. Even assuming that both the Chinese and the minorities were bound by the same childbirth policy, I don’t see that as an extenuating factor - all that’d prove is that the government is a totalitarian nightmare for a larger group of people.

EDIT: I see the confusion. China has implemented a three-child policy as a general rule for all provinces, but scrapped the penalties for not adhering to it. The government advises couples to have up to three children, but will not penalise them for having more. Here’s the source:

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-07/21/c_1310073319.htm

http://www.gov.cn/zhengce/2021-07/20/content_5626190.htm

I quote: “The main purpose for implementing the three-child policy and supporting measures is to help achieve an appropriate fertility rate and promote long-term and balanced population development. It represents a fundamental change from previous goals of birth policies, such as curbing the excessively rapid population growth (…) Universal restrictive measures and fines in the country are no longer necessary.” - Yang Wenzhuang, National Health Comission

In other words, you will not be penalised for having more children than advised… unless you’re Muslim, of course - then you get some “non-consensual healthcare” thrust upon you by the state, in clear violation of bodily autonomy. If you want to argue about this further, argue with the Chinese government, since it’s their own website and their own state-controlled news agency.

 

[zeveroth]

and why the situation in Ukraine thread turn to be Chinese - US debate

Because ppl need a reason to argue, a tbh.
Edit. I had a much longer response but the page refreshes and I lost it so there’s that. Lol

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

Let´s return the thread to Ukraine (unlike Crimea):

EU foreign policy leader Josep Borrell calls the Russian export blockade a "real war crime".
Russia says it is not blocking it. Ukraine has to remove the mines in order for trade to resume. But Ukraine says it cannot trust Russia. It would use the clearing of the mines for military advances by sea.

Seems like a difficult situation to resolve.
This appears to be yet another issue the EU failed to predict. The US won´t mind because the African and Middle Eastern migrants will primarily come to the EU, I suppose.

 

[UnderJinx]

Let´s return the thread to Ukraine (unlike Crimea):

EU foreign policy leader Josep Borrell calls the Russian export blockade a "real war crime".
Russia says it is not blocking it. Ukraine has to remove the mines in order for trade to resume. But Ukraine says it cannot trust Russia. It would use the clearing of the mines for military advances by sea.

Seems like a difficult situation to resolve.
This appears to be yet another issue the EU failed to predict. The US won´t mind because the African and Middle Eastern migrants will primarily come to the EU, I suppose.

Like the fact, that you want the thread to be more about the war in Ukraine
But you drag USA and the Middle east into the discussion right away.

 

[Foxi4]

Like the fact, that you want the thread to be more about the war in Ukraine
But you drag USA and the Middle east into the discussion right away.

He knows he took a giant L on genocide in China, so he’s switching subjects right away. Not that I mind, it was a very brief diversion anyway - the thread *is* about Ukraine. I was simply addressing the China apologists in the thread, and I think that part of the discussion has reached its natural (and predictable) conclusion.

 

[UnderJinx]

Guess Putin wasn't dead after all
But hope he is before he goes for Odessa

 

[UnderJinx]

Probably the only thing that can stop the war
is Putin being dead

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

He knows he took a giant L on genocide in China, so he’s switching subjects right away. Not that I mind, it was a very brief diversion anyway - the thread *is* about Ukraine. I was simply addressing the China apologists in the thread, and I think that part of the discussion has reached its natural (and predictable) conclusion.

Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.

Obviously the war in Ukraine is also about the USA. To say otherwise is like claiming that Russia had nothing to do with 2014 separatism in Ukraine.

 

[KuntilanakMerah]

i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia

 

[JoeBloggs777]

i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia

Ukraine will never be part of Russia again, not one ex USSR state wants to join Russia, in fact most have supplied weapons to the Ukraine they love Russia so much.

 

[Xzi]

Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.

Obviously the war in Ukraine is also about the USA. To say otherwise is like claiming that Russia had nothing to do with 2014 separatism in Ukraine.

Neither the US nor China started this war, that's 100% on Putin. Again though, China has an interest in seeing both Russia and Ukraine fall so they can swoop in and buy up everything in a fire sale. Instead of using their power and influence to try to bring a quick resolution to this conflict, they're fence-sitting and subtly playing both sides. That's not quite as evil as directly aiding the imperialist invasion, but it is still evil.

 

[Foxi4]

Namely that you had to back-paddle. Open a thread and discuss it there.

Backpedal what? I said that the three-child limit no longer applies and it doesn’t. There’s a difference between government advice and crime. Before the law was changed having more children than permitted was a crime - it affected your credit score and a wide variety of other services as stating the amount of children you have was a requirement on government forms. It entailed not only financial, but also criminal liability, including possible forced contraception or sterilisation. Now it doesn’t, unless you’re part of an undesirable minority, in which case having more children than permitted lands you in an internment camp. This isn’t me saying this, it’s the Chinese government itself, so you go on ahead and argue with them.

Ukraine will never be part of Russia again, not one ex USSR state wants to join Russia, in fact most have supplied weapons to the Ukraine they love Russia so much.

One of the worst neighbours you could have. When Putin was elected, he coasted on leftover delusions of grandeur - people remembered the “glorious motherland” propaganda, but they didn’t remember that they could barely make ends meet. He’s been stoking that pseudo-patriotic “Mother Russia” flame ever since, and while it’s a successful strategy in some areas, unfortunately it also means that Putin cannot afford to take an L - it undercuts his platform. He’ll stay in Ukraine for as long as humanly possible, to the detriment of Russians if needs be. The west successfully obliterated Russia once, it will do it again, and it’s not going to do it with weapons. That’s a fool’s errand - many have tried, none have succeeded due to home turf advantage leaning heavily towards Russia. If the west wants to score a W, it needs to bankrupt it, just like it did in the late 80’s.

 

[UltraDolphinRevolution]

John Mearsheimer recently made an interesting analogy:
Would you play Russian roulette if only one out of 100 chambers had a bullet it in?
You´d all say no (unless perhaps there was an insanely high reward if you don´t shoot yourself)

But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.

 

[Viri]

i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia

Well, that's a great way to tank your economy. Conquering a country is the easy part, holding and pacifying a country is the difficult part. Ukraine has a population of 44mil people. A majority of that population will see Russia as conquerors. Russia would have to endure protests, many of which will be violent and terrorist attacks on a weekly basis.

And yea, becoming a part of Russia again? I believed that before the "tactically retreated" from outside of Kiev.

 

[Foxi4]

John Mearsheimer recently made an interesting analogy:
Would you play Russian roulette if only one out of 100 chambers had a bullet it in?
You´d all say no (unless perhaps there was an insanely high reward if you don´t shoot yourself)

But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.

The possibility of nuclear retaliation is both minuscule and fairly easily countered. NATO has implemented Ballistic Missile Defense systems utilising satellite tracking and naval BMD interceptors. A warhead would be highly unlikely to reach its intended destination anyway, the only consequence of an attack would be radioactive debris which is admittedly troublesome to deal with, but in no way comparable to the tonnes of radioactive ash resulting from an actual detonation. Russia would have to deploy more missiles than the system can handle, and we don’t know if their shoddy Soviet-era equipment even still works. Paper tiger, my level of concern is close to nil.

i only hope after this war ukraine become part to russia again so there's no ukraine only russia

Ukraine isn’t Russia - it has always been a contested territory. If Russia thinks it has a claim on Ukraine, so does Turkey (by the virtue of being a former part of the Ottoman Empire), Poland (former part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth), Austria (former part of Austrian Empire) and probably even more than that. Ultimately an independent Ukrainian state emerged in 1917 and, if not for being forcibly reconstituted into the U.S.S.R. by the Bolsheviks, it would’ve remained independent just fine. Russia doesn’t get to clutch pearls after over 30 years of Ukraine functioning as a sovereign country - it’s nothing more than sour grapes.

 

[Xzi]

But the Western elites downplay the possiblity of a nuclear escalation (which btw is more likely the further the West succeeds in damaging Russia), often stating the chance is low. So is shooting yourself in Mearsheimers example.

So your suggestion is...what? That we give the unstable dictator with nukes everything he wants? As if that'll somehow make him disappear or become any less unstable. Besides, everybody's got nukes now. They're not the ace in the hole they once were, and even considering mutually assured destruction as a last desperate tactic means you've already lost. At that point he might as well just commit Sudoku instead.

 

[Foxi4]

So your suggestion is...what? That we give the unstable dictator with nukes everything he wants? As if that'll somehow make him disappear or become any less unstable. Besides, everybody's got nukes now. They're not the ace in the hole they once were, and even considering mutually assured destruction as a last desperate tactic means you've already lost. At that point he might as well just commit Sudoku instead.

That was kind of the point of MAD - if everyone has nukes, nobody can use them as the threat of retaliation is too great.