U.S. Supreme Court set to overturn Roe v. Wade abortion rights decision

[Stone_Wings]

Nope, at the point in time the sperm hasn't fertilized the egg yet and no baby is being created. Discarding sperm isn't killing an actual unborn child. What's next, spitting into the wind is also murder?

Sperm is a life form. You're killing 300+ million living organisms when you blow your load. Thank you for admitting you only care about life when it fits your religious views. You're a complete fraud. You don't care about life, you care about control.

 

[MadonnaProject]

I checked the list of the 25 most wanted in Britain and almost everyone's white, more than half is british.

Most wanted lists are people who have absconded, on the run or not found. Quoting an irrelevant statistic does not change the fact in Britain (and america) a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by black males. These are more than likely to be from single parent family with no father figure and an issue with discipline. They're likely to be born to young black (and white) mothers.

 

[tabzer]

You should check on the definition of what an abortion is. It's the termination of a pregnancy, not the killing of a fetus or baby. The fact that the fetus cannot live without the mother's body is just a consequence of the termination of the pregnancy.

Suggesting that nuance about abortion is a crux of the issue that people have with it reads a bit sociopathic.

 

[Lacius]

Suggesting that nuance about abortion is a crux of the issue that people have with it reads a bit sociopathic.

It's a relevant part of the issue, considering some states want to criminalize all forms of abortion.

Birth control is very effective, but yes it's not 100% effective. The pill is 99% effective, condoms are 98% effective. If you combine the pill and a condom though you're relatively safe. As for more permanent solutions a male vasectomy is nearly 100% effective in preventing pregnancy. A female vasectomy is also a reliable form of birth control. It’s also almost 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. IUDs and tubal ligation have similar effectiveness. However, only abstinence is 100% effective.

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...ific-southwest/blog/12-types-of-birth-control

If you're going to argue the state has an interest and the legal authority to limit abortions to as little a number as possible, then maybe they should require vasectomies on all sexually mature males. They can just get them reversed when they're ready to have a kid on purpose, right? Bodily autonomy isn't an issue, of course.

And, to address the topic at hand, contraceptives are not 100% effective, and we are talking about hundreds of millions of Americans who have sex everyday. You are going to get plenty of pregnancies from people who did everything right.

 

[osaka35]

I agree with your reply, but you cut my sentence in half.

I stated; "This is why starting at a young age people should be taught not to have sex until they are prepared to handle the responsibility of raising a child or if they do have sex to take precautions, because contrary to what @Lacius is claiming birth control works really damned well."

Being prepared to handle raising a child would entail all of what you mentioned. I completely agree that education is a key factor in whether or not people have abortions and we shouldn't be allowing the leftist liberals to be encouraging them like they are a simple trip to the supermarket.

Without an understanding of the whole, kids won't care something is "dangerous". They aren't going to not do something just because it could potentially maybe ruin their life. Have to teach them every aspect of it, about how it works, how to do it safely and properly, and what's expected of them day-to-day if something bad happens. They're kids and literally don't know anything about it other than bad porn and vague references on TV. Just explaining to them how risky and dangerous it is won't have any impact.

 

[Sheimi]

Sperm is a life form. You're killing 300+ million living organisms when you blow your load. Thank you for admitting you only care about life when it fits your religious views. You're a complete fraud. You don't care about life, you care about control.

That is so spot on! Better than what I could say.

 

[tabzer]

It's a relevant part of the issue, considering some states want to criminalize all forms of abortion.

Using an argument like "I didn't kill the fish" when you took it out of water and left it to die doesn't absolve the action of the consequence, which seems to be what you are suggesting.

 

[Lacius]

Using an argument like "I didn't kill the fish" when you took it out of water and left it to die doesn't absolve the action of the consequence, which seems to be what you are suggesting.

I'm saying killing the embryo or fetus isn't the direct goal of the abortion. If you could move the embryo or fetus somewhere else, then we wouldn't have a problem. A woman only has the right to end the pregnancy, since she has a right to bodily autonomy. If the fetus could survive without her, she wouldn't have the right to kill it once it's out of her.

I'm not saying this technicality absolves anyone of the moral consequences of their actions. I'm explaining what an abortion is and isn't.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

If you're going to argue the state has an interest and the legal authority to limit abortions to as little a number as possible, then maybe they should require vasectomies on all sexually mature males. They can just get them reversed when they're ready to have a kid on purpose, right? Bodily autonomy isn't an issue, of course.

And, to address the topic at hand, contraceptives are not 100% effective, and we are talking about hundreds of millions of Americans who have sex everyday. You are going to get plenty of pregnancies from people who did everything right.

No, the right wingers are the ones stating at if Roe vs. Wade is invalidated that the States should outlaw abortion and the left wingers are stating the States should pass laws making it legal. I don't think there needs to be any laws, new or otherwise regarding abortion. We as a society can and should do better by ourselves without needing to create restrictive laws. It's just there's around half of the USA that could care less about life and just wants to act irresponsibly because it "feels good".

 

[Lacius]

No, the right wingers are the ones stating at if Roe vs. Wade is invalidated that the States should outlaw abortion and the left wingers are stating the States should pass laws making it legal.

Yes, correct.

I don't think there needs to be any laws, new or otherwise regarding abortion. We as a society can and should do better by ourselves without needing to create restrictive laws.

I'm confused. Are you saying, for example, that a state shouldn't criminalize abortion after the fall of Roe? That sounds pretty pro-choice.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

Yes, correct.


I'm confused. Are you saying, for example, that a state shouldn't criminalize abortion after the fall of Roe? That sounds pretty pro-choice.

The States shouldn't pass any laws outlawing or making abortions legal. We don't need laws for every single damned thing in existence. That's not freedom. People should just live responsibility and not seek out to kill the life they create just because they simply don't want it.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

Most wanted lists are people who have absconded, on the run or not found. Quoting an irrelevant statistic does not change the fact in Britain (and america) a disproportionate amount of crime is committed by black males. These are more than likely to be from single parent family with no father figure and an issue with discipline. They're likely to be born to young black (and white) mothers.

You chose to specify by ethnicity that irresponsible black men that ignore their familial duties are at fault for crime in Britain. While absent parents are a reason for crime, the responsibility of the larger community should be adressed, such as discrimination and ostracization. Young black people commit more crimes associated with poverty, and are the most victims of violent crime.

Discrimination and exclusion puts minorities in disadvantage from school days to work and dealing with housing, local communities and the police. Black people are disproportionately more subject to stops and searches by the authorities. The Home Affairs Select Committee found that black people are over-represented at all stages of the criminal justice system. The government has a page for the conviction ratio for different types of crimes, according to ethnicity. As you can see, whites are always near 100% conviction ratio, which likely means that white people crimes are ignored until they're serious or caught red-handed, while people of other ethnicites have a lower threshold of burden of proof to be arrested.

Wikipedia tells me that the white british are the major culprits of hate crime, terror crimes, sexual grooming and child sex offenses. I imagine that the majority of white collar crimes also falls upon white british.

P.S.: I know this is off-topic, but certain perceptions should be adressed so that we avoid the pitfalls of prejudice, discrimination and dehumanization.

 

[Lacius]

The States shouldn't pass any laws outlawing or making abortions legal. We don't need laws for every single damned thing in existence.

This isn't how laws work. If there isn't a law criminalizing something, it's legal (generally speaking).

 

[MadonnaProject]

You chose to specify by ethnicity that irresponsible black men that ignore their familial duties are at fault for crime in Britain. While absent parents are a reason for crime, the responsibility of the larger community should be adressed, such as discrimination and ostracization. Young black people commit more crimes associated with poverty, and are the most victims of violent crime.

Discrimination and exclusion puts minorities in disadvantage from school days to work and dealing with housing, local communities and the police. Black people are disproportionately more subject to stops and searches by the authorities. The Home Affairs Select Committee found that black people are over-represented at all stages of the criminal justice system. The government has a page for the conviction ratio for different types of crimes, according to ethnicity. As you can see, whites are always near 100% conviction ratio, which likely means that white people crimes are ignored until they're serious or caught red-handed, while people of other ethnicites have a lower threshold of burden of proof to be arrested.

Wikipedia tells me that the white british are the major culprits of hate crime, terror crimes, sexual grooming and child sex offenses. I imagine that the majority of white collar crimes also falls upon white british.

P.S.: I know this is off-topic, but certain perceptions should be adressed so that we avoid the pitfalls of prejudice, discrimination and dehumanization.

Perhaps what you say is correct about america, but do you know in Britain, the poorest, with the lowest prospect for life, health and education are white boys? Sadly these are also afflicted by the same issues - single parent households and broken families. However most of are broken households.

I agree there are issues such as racism etc but when someone mentions bare facts and you immediately frame everything through a lense of race and "dehumanisation" you effectively stifle conversation, which is the main reason the black community suffers from a lot of pitfalls - no one is honest about their issues.

For example, in Britain, black people make up around 4% of the population, but most violent crime, including stabbings and murders are committed by black men. When I state this, I know the white community (and every other) has their issues, but just because I am mentioning a fact relating to people who happen to be black, I don't need to mention a completely unrelated statistic relating to another race. THAT in itself sounds prejudicial, not just towards the other race but also towards the black community. Ever heard of the prejudice of low expectations?

Using words such as "over-represented" and "dehumanise" only hurts the black comunity. In London, where most, if not all stabbings happen by black men, it is not racist to stop and search people who fit that statistic - black men. Yet stop and search happens to everyone.

I wouldn't make assertions about america, but I live in England. I go out in Lodnon. I see who is dealing drugs, who is behaving aggressively, whether its on the streets, or clubs, or in shops. Trust me, it isn't chinese or indian kids. Its not even white kids (although they can be rowdy). Its mostly a certain sort of person, and no one is dehumanising them but their own behavior.

Example: I went to college and university. I was with chinese, nepalese, european, caucasian British and Black British pupils. Do you know who graduated and got jobs? Do you know who mostly didn't graduate and even if they did graduate ended up with illegitimate kids? The black students. Every-single-one. Literally, every single one.

 

[osaka35]

The States shouldn't pass any laws outlawing or making abortions legal. We don't need laws for every single damned thing in existence. That's not freedom. People should just live responsibility and not seek out to kill the life they create just because they simply don't want it.

Laws that "make abortions legal" are more saying "the government recognizes this as a right you have already and is not something given to you by the government, and so will not allow restrictions based on you exercising said right". or put plainly, the government won't restrict your rights and won't let government punish you directly or indirectly for exercising your rights.

and sometimes it also usually defines this right specifically, so everyone knows exactly what this right entails and its limits

Helps you sue the government if it's written down somewhere they can't do the thing and then they do the thing.

 

[Dark_Phoras]

@MadonnaProject you were the one that framed the issue of abortion in the United States through the lense of crime by ethnic communities in Britain. It wasn't me who started the talk on race, and the thesis of your post is based on the idea that I started that discussion. You haven't mentioned bare facts, you mentioned one or two selected facts, and I completed the picture. Stabbings, robberies and violent crime are majorly perpetrated by black people, supposedly, because with police discrimination we can't get a clear picture. But you're ignoring the fact that those crimes are usually related to poverty, to communities with precariety and scarce means.

Immediately your first paragraph is disproven by the government itself. White kids aren't the most exposed to poverty; from all the ethnicities, they're actually the least exposed.

 

[Lumstar]

The States shouldn't pass any laws outlawing or making abortions legal. We don't need laws for every single damned thing in existence. That's not freedom. People should just live responsibility and not seek out to kill the life they create just because they simply don't want it.

In any event, abortion being legal doesn't obligate doctors to perform it. A physician has every right to tell a patient their wishes are medically unnecessary or unsound.

 

[MadonnaProject]

@MadonnaProject you were the one that framed the issue of abortion in the United States through the lense of crime by ethnic communities in Britain. It wasn't me who started the talk on race, and the thesis of your post is based on the idea that I started that discussion. You haven't mentioned bare facts, you mentioned one or two selected facts, and I completed the picture. Stabbings, robberies and violent crime are majorly perpetrated by black people, supposedly, because with police discrimination we can't get a clear picture. But you're ignoring the fact that those crimes are usually related to poverty, to communities with precariety and scarce means.

Immediately your first paragraph is disproven by the government itself. White kids aren't the most exposed to poverty; from all the ethnicities, they're actually the least exposed.

The topic is about abortion. My point was I am conflicted about the issue. I do not support casual abortion but I think sometimes abortion prevents other issues such as unwanted births and illegitimacy. You cannot mention illegitimacy without mentioning the sort of people most likely to have illegitimate children.

I was quite respectful about the matter and chose to not keep mentioning "black people" and instead referred to other races so make a point by omission. Then I stated my personal experience and being such it may differ from yours which is normal and that is ok.

I think perhaps something has hit a nerve, which is why you're reacting in this manner. If you think police as a whole is so against the darker skin colour (bearing in mind black people come from all parts of the world and have a varied and diverse culture, background, and faith system) that they're skewing stats to make everyone believe Black people committ the most crime, then perhaps you need to have a long hard think as to how you can come to such a conclusion. What would police have to gain from people believing such a thing?

Use the gov website link you posted as an example. If Pakistani and South Asian origin people live in poorer neighborhoods then you'd imagine poverty, scarcity etc etc to affect them also. Please explain how statistically they're not as likely as Black and Mixed (black and other race) kids to stab each other?

Why don't you see chinese immigrant families, Indian or other immigrant families (some of whom come from war torn countries and utter squalor) committ crime at a rate the same as black people. Or keeping it on point have illegitimite children like black people or abortions for that matter?

Let's not get oversensitive and virtue signal please. Its base level.

 

[The Catboy]

Nope, at the point in time the sperm hasn't fertilized the egg yet and no baby is being created. Discarding sperm isn't killing an actual unborn child. What's next, spitting into the wind is also murder?

Sperm is still alive though and it's part of what makes a fetus. Why not set the goal back to saying busting a nut is the murder of countless potential children?

 

[BitMasterPlus]

Cool, so you literally just want to be part of this conversation and nothing else. I won't entertain you past this message because it seems you only want attention and I don't care to give that to you.

Hey man, I have as much right to post replies here as you do. It's your choice to respond back or not, but you can't stop me from replying to you, just as I can't do the same.

This is all becoming a shout/insult fest as usual either way, but at the end of the day, Roe v. Wade is going, so go to a blue state to get your free abortion. It ain't my fault if you knock someone up or get knocked up and it's not the government's job to bail your sorry asses out.