US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[Xzi]

Thats an emotional statement, right?

No. Our deal with the Taliban ensured they would not be targeting any Americans as they withdrew, which is exactly how things are going down. Therefore it was obvious who they would be targeting the moment we started pulling out: Afghan citizens, specifically civil rights advocates and those that assisted in US operations.

Allies and families: 30k+
People from Afghanistan The LA Times says the US could give refuge to: 150K

Seems it shouldn't have been a problem then, eh? If the US doesn't want to take in refugees, it shouldn't be stirring up decades-long wars that create so many refugees in the first place. Pretty simple rule of thumb.

Biden's only excuse for why we shouldn't have any responsibility to our Afghan allies is that "Nixon got away with it" when leaving Vietnam, but needless to say, Nixon probably isn't the best comparison to draw on when it comes to issues of morality.

 

[notimp]

No. Our deal with the Taliban ensured they would not be targeting any Americans as they withdrew, which is exactly how things are going down. Therefore it was obvious who they would be targeting the moment we started pulling out: Afghan citizens, specifically civil rights advocates and those that assisted in US operations.

Yeah, and?

It was also obviously from the beginning, that the US would never honor a promise to protect many translator and their families that worked for US troops and or contractors.



The only thing that went a little astray at the moment was the speed at which the Taliban were able to take over the capital, thats about it.

Seems it shouldn't have been a problem then, eh? If the US doesn't want to take in refugees, it shouldn't be stirring up decades-long wars that create so many refugees in the first place. Pretty simple rule of thumb.

Why would they. Literacy rate at 38%. Qualification grade "speaks english and pashto, has a family of six". Close to a trillion already spent in country (although most were US military salaries for fiddling with their noses, I guess). How effectively would you want to extend the invitation based on 5 cable stations doing 5 independant interviews of translators that made it to the US and now talk about their extended families being killed, or threatened?

I mean...

You can say "thank you" to china, that they have an investment plan for social stability involving the Taliban in the region active at the moment. And then you can tell yourself that for every 100 "western oriented" people you let into your country, there will be close to 100x of refugees in the region. So... what?

Too bad, that Kabul fell this fast, ey?

 

[Xzi]

It was also obviously from the beginning, that the US would never honor a promise to protect every translator and their family that worked for US troops and or contractors - from the beginning.

That was certainly obvious to me as a high school student, which is why I protested the invasion of both Afghanistan and Iraq. But I think if it was more obvious to everybody, mainstream support for these invasions would've been nil. We can only hope that the outcome here teaches a few people a few valuable lessons about imperialism, but even that might be too much to hope for.

 

[notimp]

For that you'd have to have a public reason for why you were in the country in the first place. One that makes sense I mean.

You were searching for Bin Laden, whom you've found in Pakistan I hear, and fighting terror networks, threatening the free world from the top of the Hindu Kush - by trowing bombs.

You should really hear the mental and rhetorical gymnastics, the current german foreign policy speakers are actively engaged in to rectify why in summer they argued, that they'd at least need to stay an entire additional year in Afghanistan, and then on the day of the US troop withdrawal, fell in line with that plan an that schedule...

Regardless - nothing new here... Its just that I currently see how you get an entire society CAPTIVATED, by talking about the moral responsibility to help out refugees, with a EU figurehead visiting a camp that at the time had 60 people flown in from Kabul, and at the same time strengthening greeces borders.

While everyone agreed a week earlier, that the mode of action was to "minimize the fallout - while leaving". And all actions were planed based on that.

Even the "should have been evacuated earlier (US citizens)" seems to be mostly semantics, because - the CIA and other agencies failed to have the right threat assessment at hand. Or the other way around, the taliban were _exceptionally_ successful in convincing local governments, that now that the US had effed off, it really would only be a matter of time until they were in power, and by voluntarily falling under their command, they could keep most of the set up power structures, just under new rule.

 

[Xzi]

For that you'd have to have a public reason for why you were in the country in the first place.

After a certain point it was widely acknowledged (but not by the Bush admin) that the mission had become nation building, supporting civil rights and a new form of government in the region which was far less oppressive than the previous Taliban regime. Instead we gave Afghans, and particularly women, a small taste of a better life, only to crush all their hopes and dreams later in the span of 24 hours.

Its just that I currently see how you get an entire society CAPTIVATED, by talking about the moral responsibility to help out refugees, with a EU figurehead visiting a camp that at the time had 60 people flown in from Kabul, and at the same time strengthening greeces borders.

The reason that such a statement is so captivating is that he's right. It's primarily the US' mess, and so it's primarily the US' responsibility to clean it up, regardless of how many refugees the EU is or isn't taking from Afghanistan. The politics and rules of the old guard no longer apply, younger generations expect better of our leaders, just as it should be. Especially when we already had history as a guide for what not to do.

 

[notimp]

Biden says Afghanistan was never about nation-building
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/In...s-Afghanistan-was-never-about-nation-building

You can also find and read the WP article on that.

If you are interested, it most likely was of strategic military importance in the region, as with every other world power that tried to annex it. Alongside of it having been a way to funnel public money into the military industrial complex. That ended with the US intelligence services being publically embarrassed and a President currently taking most of the blame for it.

And in terms of "nation building" - it still had been a military operation. Not a cultural excursion of "winning over their hearts and minds" - so, surprise - you didn't.

I personally was pro Bidens stance of getting out after 20 years, and I'm even willing to be blamed for the direct consequences, and the current outcome - but what I find hard to take is that the public conversation currently is one about "how the US has a responsibility in helping the refugees". Dont get me wrong, it has - but, then also look at what they did on that front prior to the "public fallout" of the "hasty retreat".

And not only conjur up an image of a society, now so very willing to help, because things kind of went not as expected. (Not directed at you, but rather media outlets, making that the big story currently.)

And very likely six months from now, thats not a priority anymore.

 

[Xzi]

Biden says Afghanistan was never about nation-building

Yes I'm aware Biden doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of the situation, just as the Bush admin didn't. The fact of the matter remains that we started building schools and other institutions in Afghanistan relatively quickly after our initial invasion.

And in terms of "nation building" - it still had been a military operation. Not a cultural excursion of "winning over their hearts and minds" - so, surprise - you didn't.

True. The few hearts and minds we won over were mostly a result of all the money we were pouring into the country. We never really took the time to understand the fragmented cultural situation there or the ideologies of all the disparate tribal groups, which is a big part of the reason the Afghan military folded so quickly.

I personally was pro Bidens stance of getting out after 20 years, and I'm even willing to be blamed for the direct consequences, and the current outcome - but what I find hard to take is that the public conversation currently is one about "how the US has a responsibility in helping the refugees". Dont get me wrong, it has - but, then also look at what they did on that front prior to the "public fallout" of the "hasty retreat".

And not only conjur up an image of a society, now so very willing to help, because things kind of went not as expected. (Not directed at you, but rather media outlets, making that the big story currently.)

The media circus has certainly elevated itself to a whole new level of ridiculousness over our withdrawal, there's no denying that. The problem isn't the few outlets that are calling for compassion though, rather it's all the outlets that have suddenly decided they love forever wars and imperialism because the billionaires who own them also have investments in weapons manufacturers/defense contractors.

 

[notimp]

Yes I'm aware Biden doesn't want to acknowledge the reality of the situation, just as the Bush admin didn't. The fact of the matter remains that we started building schools and other institutions in Afghanistan relatively quickly after our initial invasion.

Oh, of course we did.

I've just watched about ten videos from Roger Willemsen (german) about how "intensive" the support for local NGOs in the region has been.

And how wonderful the cooperation with the leading military official in the region turned out, that often pronounced "for tha security" regimes that made it impossible to keep those schools open and running. When they didnt bomb a hospital nearby...

The NGOs told them, let them self organize, the military told them, lets not. The NGOs told them - get your military protection out of the way, the families are afraid to send their children, because they could become targets, the military told them - how about not. The usual song and dance...

 

[notimp]

US is now evacuating up to 11k people per day, with the majority apparently being flown into Dallas.
According to Al Jazeera


I've read somewhere else, that they have capacity for 5-9k to be flown out of country elsewhere.

Seems a bit high for targets given out by the UK and the EU at the moment... But if they are doing that - than the US really is doing something here.

edit: WP writing about the preparations also doesnt sound like that would become a sustained 7k per day....
https://archive.is/JQMiO

 

[subcon959]

Did anyone watch the Taliban press conference?

 

[notimp]

Did anyone watch the Taliban press conference?

Which one? Saw the one where Al Jazeera noticed 15 minutes in, that what they were broadcasting represented the handing over of the presidential palace in Kabul, but you probably dont mean that one..

Are there questions? They are firm on the US leaving by Aug 31th apparently having used phrasing that indicated, that they would be worried about a brain drain - they are feigning to be "more liberal" in cities, having allowed schools for girls to remain open, but they have told female government employees to stay at home (and potentially think about giving their position to a male relative). And there are reports of public hangings and heavy repressions from "the countryside".

 

[subcon959]

It was the live one that was finishing as I was posting that message. The spokesman kept saying how everyone concerned about women didn't need to worry as they would continue to be treated well as dictated by Islamic law...

 

[chrisrlink]

It was the live one that was finishing as I was posting that message. The spokesman kept saying how everyone concerned about women didn't need to worry as they would continue to be treated well as dictated by Islamic law...

you know as well as I do thats pure horseshit never trust a terrorist's word NEVER

 

[subcon959]

you know as well as I do thats pure horseshit never trust a terrorist's word NEVER

Islamic (he may well have meant Sharia) law is not great for women so we should be concerned if they actually do what they said.

 

[chrisrlink]

tannnnnnnnnnnnnddddd i was right by not trusting terrorist https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/asia/afghanistan-kabul-airport-blast-intl/index.html the taliban fucked up their chance for a withdraw ok so i may allign myself with democrat but if biden continues the withdraw after this he's an idiot

 

[djpannda]

tannnnnnnnnnnnnddddd i was right by not trusting terrorist https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/26/asia/afghanistan-kabul-airport-blast-intl/index.html the taliban fucked up their chance for a withdraw ok so i may allign myself with democrat but if biden continues the withdraw after this he's an idiot

but thats the Plan, Have the US delay Withdraw, so the International Community can point the finger on US for not following on the Agreement they signed to leave. The Withdraw needs to ramp up not delay

 

[chrisrlink]

then again i rather elect an idiot again than a narcissistic fatass tyrant wannabe

 

[Deleted member 194275]

then again i rather elect an idiot again than a narcissistic fatass tyrant wannabe

The line is so blurred out, that I can't tell witch one is witch. Both are idiot, both are tyrant, both are fatass, one is more narcissist than the other, maybe that's I why got the impression that the later is Trump

Anyway, I think you all aware of the atrocious terrorist act that happened today, it is total disaster, this whole thing is a terrible disaster and I am genuinely sad.

but thats the Plan, Have the US delay Withdraw, so the International Community can point the finger on US for not following on the Agreement they signed to leave. The Withdraw needs to ramp up not delay

You are really calling the international community out? Really?

 

[Hanafuda]

12 dead Marines, bloody dead Afghanis stacked like cordwood in the street? It's that dirty Trump again!!

 

[BitMasterPlus]

12 dead Marines, bloody dead Afghanis stacked like cordwood in the street? It's that dirty Trump again!!

It's always orange man bad's fault somehow.