US troops withdrawal from Afghanistan

[jimbo13]

Let me know when you can provide any evidence that the tweet was anything other than innocuous.

Let me know when Afghanistan has legalized homosexuality and death is not on the table for promoting homosexuality, IMO your bigotry is just so intense you don't think Afghani's can manage twitter.

 

[Lacius]

your bigotry is just so intense you don't think Afghani's can manage twitter.

I never once said nor implied that. Once again, we clearly aren't getting a good-faith effort from you. I audibly laughed at the attempt at an "I know you are, but what am I" approach though.

Edit: If it wasn't clear, whether or not Afghanistan has "legalized homosexuality" is irrelevant to any of my points.

 

[jimbo13]

I never once said nor implied that. Once again, we clearly aren't getting a good-faith effort from you. I audibly laughed at the attempt at an "I know you are, but what am I" approach though.

Good faith wouldn't be denying a simple fact that promoting homosexuality can get innocent people killed in Afghanistan.

 

[Lacius]

Good faith wouldn't be denying a simple fact that promoting homosexuality can get innocent people killed in Afghanistan.

I'd like to see your evidence that a tweet had any substantive consequences. I'd like to hear your rationale for why we should be militarily occupying a country that would respond negatively to an innocuous tweet in support of LGBT people. I'd like to hear your rationale for when it's ever appropriate to stifle our values regarding human rights. I'd like to hear how any of this is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Sadly, I don't expect to get any substantive responses to any of these requests.

 

[Xzi]

Are you forgetting the part were Trump would do anything to keep extremist away?

Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st. Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same. A lot of people predicted this before we entered Afghanistan.

The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades. Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban. And guess what? The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq. Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism. That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system. Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.

 

[jimbo13]

I'd like to see your evidence that a tweet had any substantive consequences. I'd like to hear your rationale for why we should be militarily occupying a country that would respond negatively to an innocuous tweet in support of LGBT people. I'd like to hear your rationale for when it's ever appropriate to stifle our values regarding human rights. I'd like to hear how any of this is relevant to the topic of this thread.

Sadly, I don't expect to get any substantive responses to any of these requests.

We shouldn't be occupying Afghanistan but we are. That doesn't give license to our diplomats to make public official statements that they should be fully aware that can and will antagonize the local populace.

Your virtue signaling nonsense is not worth risking the lives of peoples children.

It's entirely bigoted and racist to live in politically correct denial of culture of Afghanistan.

 

[Lacius]

We shouldn't be occupying Afghanistan but we are. That doesn't give license to our diplomats to make public official statements that they should be fully aware that can and will antagonize the local populace.

Your virtue signaling nonsense is not worth risking the lives of peoples children.

If you are going to argue it put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.

 

[jimbo13]

If you are going to argue it put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.

Promotion and engagement of homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Afghanistan, are you claiming they are liars?

Ask them, "For real bruh?"

 

[titan_tim]

Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st. Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same. A lot of people predicted this before we entered Afghanistan.

The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades. Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban. And guess what? The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq. Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism. That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system. Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.

This times 1000.

 

[Lacius]

Promotion and engagement of homosexuality is a crime punishable by death in Afghanistan, are you claiming they are liars?

You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?

If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.

 

[jimbo13]

Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st. Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same. A lot of people predicted this before we entered Afghanistan.

The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades. Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban. And guess what? The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq. Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism. That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system. Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.

And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.

You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?

If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.

I am done with racist bigots who want to deny Afghanistan's cultural opposition to homosexuality, you need to demonstrate your sober and live in reality.

 

[Xzi]

And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.

Trump was in favor of going into both Afghanistan and Iraq during the GWB administration. If you thought he made any "progress" by negotiating with terrorists, then you should be happy to see the Taliban re-taking the country.

 

[DoubleDate]

Goddamn, some of y'all have the memory of a goldfish. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David to negotiate our withdrawal from Afghanistan. If Biden had stuck to that agreement we would've had to be out by May 1st. Whether we had left a decade ago or stuck around for another hundred years, the result would've been the exact same. A lot of people predicted this before we entered Afghanistan.

The bottom line is this: our military leaders were straight-up bullshitting us with the supposed "progress" they were making over the last couple decades. Afghanistan's puppet government and military were never going to be able to stand on their own against the Taliban. And guess what? The same thing is gonna happen whenever we decide to leave Iraq. Fuck Cheney, fuck Bush, and fuck imperialism. That's billions, if not trillions of dollars we could've spent improving the quality of life of Americans, combating climate change, and fixing our healthcare system. Not to mention the cost in lives on both sides of the conflict.

I for sure do absolutely not agree with the invasion! It was a very bad idea, i do agree with that.

The point is now how things are. Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight. If Biden would have done the withdrawal in a way that people could flee the country, none of this mess we are in now wouldve happened. They gave Biden time, they said to get out or we will within 2 weeks take over, Biden ignored it and told everyone its very unlikely that they would do that and guess what, his words will haunt him. They agreed to hand everything to the Afghan government, that was the deal. Nappy Joe ignored everything and got out leaving so many people that will now endure very hard time under barbaric circumstances.

If Biden just didnt understimate things, no civilians would be in the situation they are in now. Its a complete cluster failure on Bidens department.

I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.

Sure, Trump bomb droned a few target but nothing of the sort what is happening now would've happened under his watch.

This couldve been avoided, the extremist were prepared to let everyone go, Biden messed up big time.

 

[ChronoTrig]

You do know that an embassy is subject to the laws of the country it represents, right?

If you are going to argue the tweet put people's lives at risk, you need to demonstrate this.

You make me laugh. lol. I really wish you'd white knight and show your pride in Afghanistan for the American people and run around there with the LGBT flag and tweet to the world every 5 mins and see how long that lasts since you seem to think Americans who put themselves in harm's way are invincible by what you say with no concern of people's children's and or lives. I've noted before, just because we have a building in a big nation of THEIR'S, it doesn't mean shit. They're savages over there and they will kill, as they have.
Jimbo was stating with the embassy doing the LGBT flag as a tweet was a poor move of priorities when they're trying to get out of a nation safely/timely and when Afghanistan / Taliban already hates Americans as it is. Virtue signaling and anything of that sort shouldn't mean shit when you're trying to safely get out of a country that hates you, since you've already abandoned the thought of staying and holding your ground, so what's the point in trying to put yourself in harm's way? Do you intentionally piss off a person with a gun who's tempted to kill you by insulting them? Cause that's basically what they were doing by disrespecting them and their beliefs just because we're American. That's entitlement and that shit will get people killed.
Again, it was in their country, these select people weren't on actual American soil- just a building in Afghanistan with our own rules and our own ROE. Taliban don't give a shit about the US's ROE and will gladly do anything to savagely murder just because you're American or you showed something they abhor like the LGBT flag.

 

[Xzi]

Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight.

His negotiations amounted to nothing. If Trump had been re-elected and we had withdrawn by May 1st, the Taliban would've had total control of the country on May 1st. They would've avoided targeting evacuating Americans, just as they're doing now, and the Afghani puppet government/military would've offered no resistance to their advance, just as they're doing now.

I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.

Getting out of Afghanistan is the right thing to do, that's why it's an easy action to defend. No prior administration would have been any more prepared for the dominoes to fall so quickly, because the military lied to all of them.

 

[Lacius]

And Fuck Biden, Clinton & Obama to as everyone of them voted for entry in to Afghanistan and now Biden has created a humanitarian disaster by scuttling Trumps progress who was the only President in any of our lives who did not engage us in a new conflict.

The Authorization for Use of Military Force of 2001 was in direct response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks and specifically targeted those responsible. The votes for this authorization weren't necessarily bad. However, this broad power has been used by presidents since then for much more than it was intended. Bush, Obama, and Trump are responsible for the conditions in Afghanistan and the fact that we were still there up until this point. Trump empowered the Taliban before leaving office (see my previous post on the topic), which probably had more to do with what we are seeing in Afghanistan than anything else after Biden announced his intention to rightfully withdraw.

As I've said throughout this thread and others, Trump escalated pre-existing military conflicts, he escalated the use of drone strikes, civilian causalities increased significantly under Trump, and he empowered the Taliban with bad deals before leaving office.

Until recently, Trump said he should get credit for leaving Afghanistan (despite not actually doing it while in office), and he argued what was bad about Biden's exit was that it wasn't soon enough. Your gaslighting isn't going to work.

I am done with racist bigots who want to deny Afghanistan's cultural opposition to homosexuality.

I never denied that homophobia doesn't exist in the Middle East. In fact, I've acknowledged it several times.

you need to demonstrate your sober and live in reality.

Lol at your deflections after being called out on your false claim that a tweet by the US embassy acknowledging LGBT pride is punishable by death. Why am I not surprised that you wouldn't address the point?

The point is now how things are. Trump did try to negociate with them to avoid bloodshed, to avoid murdering everything that they see in sight.

You mean when he made a deal that, among other things, empowered the Taliban to be what they are now and freed 5,000 Taliban members, including the man who is likely to take control of Afghanistan?

If Biden would have done the withdrawal in a way that people could flee the country, none of this mess we are in now wouldve happened.

What do you think has been happening over the past few months? Also, Trump criticized Biden for his withdrawal taking too long. Trump said he would have done it earlier and in a more expedited fashion. Oof.

They agreed to hand everything to the Afghan government, that was the deal

If the Afghanistan government wasn't prepared after 20 years, what's the point of staying if it isn't going to be forever?

Its a complete cluster failure on Bidens department.

Let's be clear that it's a failure of every presidency before Biden since the war started, especially the Bush presidency (when the war started) and the Trump presidency (which empowered the Taliban). It isn't Biden's fault that the war in Afghanistan was an American failure. That's like blaming Nixon for the end of the Vietnam War or Obama for the end of the Iraq War.

I cannot wrap my mind why people keep defending this administration.

Nobody is arguing that the situation in Afghanistan isn't volatile or unfortunate, but it was an American involvement that needed to end ASAP. What's happening in Afghanistan now should demonstrate this more than anything else.

Sure, Trump bomb droned a few target but nothing of the sort what is happening now would've happened under his watch.

That's because Trump was content with escalating the military conflict, staying in Afghanistan indefinitely, and bending over backwards for the Taliban.

This couldve been avoided, the extremist were prepared to let everyone go, Biden messed up big time.

This only could have been avoided if we stayed in Afghanistan indefinitely.

I really wish you'd white knight and show your pride in Afghanistan for the American people and run around there with the LGBT flag and tweet to the world every 5 mins and see how long that lasts since you seem to think Americans who put themselves in harm's way are invincible by what you say with no concern of people's children's and or lives. I've noted before, just because we have a building in a big nation of THEIR'S, it doesn't mean shit.

You and I both know that it's physically dangerous to run up and down the streets there with a pride flag. That wasn't what we were talking about.

They're savages over there

Yikes.

Jimbo was stating with the embassy doing the LGBT flag as a tweet was a poor move of priorities when they're trying to get out of a nation safely/timely and when Afghanistan / Taliban already hates Americans as it is. Virtue signaling and anything of that sort shouldn't mean shit when you're trying to safely get out of a country that hates you, since you've already abandoned the thought of staying and holding your ground, so what's the point in trying to put yourself in harm's way? Do you intentionally piss off a person with a gun who's tempted to kill you by insulting them? Cause that's basically what they were doing by disrespecting them and their beliefs just because we're American. That's entitlement and that shit will get people killed.

It needs to be demonstrated that this tweet had any consequence of significance, or plausible could have.

Again, it was in their country, these select people weren't on actual American soil- just a building in Afghanistan with our own rules and our own ROE. Taliban don't give a shit about the US's ROE and will gladly do anything to savagely murder just because you're American or you showed something they abhor like the LGBT flag.

If true, all the more reason to leave ASAP.

 

[Valwinz]

Powerful

Last US chopper leaves Kabul embassy in Afghanistan pic.twitter.com/Pp62EkM2LA

— Jack Poso 🇺🇸 (@JackPosobiec) August 15, 2021

 

[DoubleDate]

His negotiations amounted to nothing. If Trump had been re-elected and we had withdrawn by May 1st, the Taliban would've had total control of the country on May 1st. They would've avoided targeting evacuating Americans, just as they're doing now, and the Afghani puppet government/military would've offered no resistance to their advance, just as they're doing now.


Getting out of Afghanistan is the right thing to do, that's why it's an easy action to defend. No prior administration would have been any more prepared for the dominoes to fall so quickly, because the military lied to all of them.

"Getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do" Those words will come back to you when they are done with Afghanistan and start making plans to hurt the west. Don't think that they will stop there, this just added more fuel to the minds of those extremist. Now they have the mind that they can do anything since weaky Joe retreated without doing anything. Like i said earlier, it will now become a brewing ground for extremist. The ones that fled Syria, Iraq will go there now. Dont be that naïeve and think that it will stop there.

People are so blind that cant see the danger the world is getting into.

No, They wouldn't get control of the country when Trump was in power. they would've done that during Trumps presidency. You see the difference there? They were negotiating, then Joe trew everything in the bin and now the dont give a flying bat. They defnitely wouldnt have dared to to that under Trumps command. People need to accept that Biden abandoned the whole Afghanistan.

So answer me this, why didnt they take Afghanistan over when Trump was the leading president? They knew very well that Trump would take action.

If you keep defending Biden, then catch a plane and go to Afghanistan, lets see how "Welcome" you will be there. You will cry your pants out. USA had a chance to retreat in a good way and well Biden decision put that chance away.

 

[Lacius]

"Getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do" Those words will come back to you when they are done with Afghanistan and start making plans to hurt the west. Don't think that they will stop there, this just added more fuel to the minds of those extremist. Now they have the mind that they can do anything since weaky Joe retreated without doing anything. Like i said earlier, it will now become a brewing ground for extremist. The ones that fled Syria, Iraq will go there now. Dont be that naïeve and think that it will stop there.

People are so blind that cant see the danger the world is getting into.

No, They wouldn't get control of the country, they would've done that during Trumps presidency. You see the difference there? They were negotiating, then Joe trew everything in the bin and now the dobt give a flying bat. They defnitely wouldnt6have dared to to that under Trumps command. People need to accept that Biden abandoned the whole Afghanistan.

So answer me, why didnt they take Afghanistan over when Trump was the leading president? They knew very well that Trump would take action.

If you keep defending Biden, then catch a plane and go to Afghanistan, lets see how "Welcome" you will be there. You will cry your pants out. USA had a chance to retreat in a good way and well Biden decision put that chance away.

The alternative to leaving was staying indefinitely. Should we have done the same with Vietnam and Iraq? (your talking points are similar to what people said to leaving both of those countries)

 

[jimbo13]

he escalated the use of drone strikes

Entirely bullshit, most drone strikes are covert and classified. No way to quantify who is ahead.