Why I hate Biden's tax plan on the rich

[Reiten]

I see what you're saying, but I still can't get behind the idea that as you make more money, you keep less of it. However, I will be the first to admit my beliefs come from a mostly anecdotal position

The thing is, unless we're talking about a fixed tax, then as your earnings rise you still have more money after taxes. Unless one of the tax brackets starts to charge above 100% tax, there won't be a situation where you get a pay raise and end up with less money, then before the raise.
I recommend you either look up the local tax laws, or make up some of your own, and try to calculate what's left after taxes to get a feel for how progressive tax brackets work.

 

[Taleweaver]

I see what you're saying, but I still can't get behind the idea that as you make more money, you keep less of it. However, I will be the first to admit my beliefs come from a mostly anecdotal position

It's understandable. What can I say?
The way I see it, I'm doing my part to keep society afloat. The civil clerics ensuring everyone's legal documents are in order? Partially mine. Local library? I helped pay for it. Schools? All mine.
And yes... I've been unemployed. Before I got my first job, I got through paying the rent by tax payers' money. As such, now that I'm working (well... Full time before corona), I'm also glad to help out those who are now in the position that I was.
Perhaps it's also a bit psychological. For our day jobs, our 'full' loan is but dead letter. On the monthly letter, it starts with my full loan (about 3'000 euros) and then subtracts all taxes to end slightly below 2000 euro, which is what I consider my REAL loan, and what goes into my bank account without to much fuss(1). I mean... If I got that 3000 on my account to hold on for some months and if news outlets banged on how worthless government really was(2), I would rather have lower taxes as well. Right now, it's just organized without too much fuss.



(1): this isn't everything, mind you. There are more taxes added later. And even the reverse. Because of my family situation, I now get back a couple hundred euros every year.
(2): I haven't been to the US, but I can't help having the impression of piss poor return on your tax investment on anything that's not the army

 

[Taleweaver]

Most tax plans targeting the rich don't work anyway since rich people find easy ways around it. Amazon has weaseled their way out of paying taxes for years. No matter what, rich people will find some way to hoard their money away otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people will always evade taxes and they will always build their wealth on the backs of exploited workers, otherwise they wouldn't be rich. Rich people have just become a modern aristocracy as social mobility has drastically declined and the only people who make it big in this system tend to be people like Elon Musk who only got as far as he did because his family made millions off of Apartheid emerald mines in South Africa, literal slavery.

In lieu of this, I have developed a solution:

*sigh*

Why is it always either people think everything the rich do is okay, or absolutely nothing?

I'm well aware of the tricks many rich people use to pay as little taxes as possible. It disgusts me as well, and if you think what those evaded taxes could've achieved when they were payed, the death penalty often isn't even that light of a sentence (otherwise said: if hospitals operate sub-par because of low funding, more medical mistakes get made and more people die. As such, evading taxes for the operating cost of a hospital equals at least endangering multiple lives). At the very least, it would signal the 1% that there are things their money couldn't buy them, so it'd get them in line.

The problem: you can't generalize like that. 1% of the population still consists of many millions of people. I simply refuse to believe that all those must've gotten their wealth through shady practices, walking ethical lines or exploitation of others. There has, is and always will be proper, decent and ecological ways to get rich. Perhaps not filthy rich (that 1% isn't exactly homogenous in their wealth distribution either), but enough to prosper. Dangling pitchforks, axes and (in this case) guillotines in front of people isn't...

...erm...

Okay, I was going to say "...isn't helping", but that'd be wrong. It would most certainly help. But it's not ethical. If we're just going to kill them and steal their wealth (let's not kid ourselves: NOT doing the latter means we pretty much have to kill all the heirs of the fortunes as well, and that's even messier :-\ ), we're only temporarily switching places.

 

[Julie_Pilgrim]

In lieu of this, I have developed a solution:

Based

 

[LumInvader]

 

[Deleted member 546149]

This is one reason I hate politics, actually many reasons, fake news, arguing, two sides. Some stuff I said in this thread was due to fake news. Some of it was true, some wasn't. Here we are seeing many choosing sides arguing. Why did I even make a thread on politics?

 

[ZeroFX]

Yikes on taxing the rich, anyone with 1 or 2 brain cells know this won't work. Not with some really thought out plan.

And that's it.

 

[Xzi]

Yikes on taxing the rich, anyone with 1 or 2 brain cells know this won't work.

And that's it.

It demonstrably has worked throughout most of American history. The "trickle down economics is the only way" propaganda didn't kick into high gear until the 1980s.

 

[ZeroFX]

It demonstrably has worked throughout most of American history. The "trickle down economics is the only way" propaganda didn't kick into high gear until the 1980s.

i hope it passes then, i mean it's not my country, if it works, it worked, if not then just another example on history...

 

[Xzi]

i hope it passes then, i mean it's not my country, if it works, it worked, if not then just another example on history...

Yeah I was curious so I looked it up...Japan's top tax bracket is 40%, so even with Biden's tax increase ours would still be lower. Trump had previously cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations almost in half, so our debt and deficit were ballooning.

 

[LumInvader]

A huge study of 50 years of tax cuts for the wealthy suggests 'trickle-down' economics makes inequality worse
https://www.businessinsider.com/tax-cuts-rich-trickle-down-income-inequality-study-2020-12

- Large tax cuts for the rich lead to higher income inequality and don't fuel economic growth or cut unemployment, a new paper by academics from the London School of Economics and King's College London says.
-Their analysis of 50 years' worth of tax cuts for the wealthy in 18 countries counters arguments that such cuts "trickle down" to the rest of the economy.
- "Cutting taxes on the rich increases top income shares, but has little effect on economic performance," the researchers concluded.

Also of note, Trump's supply side tax cut was also executed out of his own self-interest. Not so much for himself, but for his family and allies. After admitting in 2016 that he hadn't paid Federal taxes in years, he was quoted as saying, "That makes me smart." A tax cut for someone who doesn't pay taxes doesn't really count as a personal tax cut does it? This coming from the same person who also promoted election fraud conspiracy theories as an additional means to enrich himself.

Also under Trump's watch:

Top 1% Of U.S. Households Hold 15 Times More Wealth Than Bottom 50% Combined
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommyb...15-times-more-wealth-than-bottom-50-combined/

According to the latest Fed data, the top 1% of Americans have a combined net worth of $34.2 trillion (or 30.4% of all household wealth in the U.S.), while the bottom 50% of the population holds just $2.1 trillion combined (or 1.9% of all wealth).

 

[notimp]

A huge study of 50 years of tax cuts for the wealthy suggests 'trickle-down' economics makes inequality worse

Yup:


Primary source:
https://money.cnn.com/2015/06/15/news/economy/trickle-down-theory-wrong-imf/index.html?iid=SF_LN

 

[The Catboy]

People who work in industries that pay no more than $400k a year will no longer want to work in that industry because they will be treated like they work $20k a year so they will quit that job, if everyone does so then no one will work in that industry. Also, high-paid CEOs will no longer want to be rich since their taxed so much, and those who want to be rich one day will forget it. Thanks to Biden since many will leave those jobs no one will do it meaning the economic system is fucked if this tax plan happens

This is literally not how any of this works nor is this even backed up by recent history. The 1950s had some of the highest taxes on the rich, yet the economy was booming during that time. It's also worth noting that times, when the rich were taxed the least, is when the economy started to tank. Economists have even found that lower taxes on the rich does not encourage growth and has actually been contributed to economic stagnation and recessions. The only ones claiming that lowering taxes "works" are the super-rich and corporations, all of whom often don't even pay taxes or use loopholes to pay the least possible on their taxes. Even under Biden's tax plans they still aren't being taxed enough to make a difference on their bank accounts.

 

[Lacius]

This is literally not how any of this works nor is this even backed up by recent history. The 1950s had some of the highest taxes on the rich, yet the economy was booming during that time. It's also worth noting that times, when the rich were taxed the least, is when the economy started to tank. Economists have even found that lower taxes on the rich does not encourage romantic growth and has actually been contributed to economic stagnation and recessions. The only ones claiming that lowering taxes "works" are the super-rich and corporations, all of whom often don't even pay taxes or use loopholes to pay the least possible on their taxes. Even under Biden's tax plans they still aren't being taxed enough to make a difference on their bank accounts.

There's ample data showing taxing the rich at higher rates and using that money on social programs boosts the economy and jobs numbers, since it puts more money in the pockets of people in lower income brackets who have to spend that money, which in turn increases demand for thise products and services, creates more jobs, and causes a positive feedback loop of this.

Lowering taxes on the rich has been shown to stifle the economy, since the rich sit on that money, and giving the rich more money does nothing to increase demand for their products and services, and therefore doesn't change how much they invest in jobs to sell those products and services.

 

[Seliph]

 

[Julie_Pilgrim]

whenever i see this image i think of the time someone captioned it "jesus punishes a sinner by making her French"